29.976fps AVI source film to 23.975 AVI progressive

[leonid_makarovsky]

Hello,

sorry if it's already been discussed. I have an Huffyuv 2.1 29.976fps AVI file which I captured via my capture card from LaserDisc. I noticed that the source there was film and not the video. I would like to convert this AVI to 23.976 fps progressive with inverse 3:2 pulldown. Can anyone give me the sample script how to do it? Also what should I do with the sound? Thanks.

--Leonid

PS. I'm relatively new to AVISynth. I've done some basic stuff, but not the advanced one. Thanks.

[patxitron]

This is the template script that I use:


LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth\decomb521.dll")

AviSource("U:\Path\file.avi")

AssumeBFF()
Telecide(order = 0, guide = 1)
Decimate()


You need the decomb plugin ( http://neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html )
Maybe, the AssumeBFF() must be changed to AssumeTFF(), read decomb documentation.

EDIT: I forgot to say that the sound doesn't need any processing.

[stickboy]

You shouldn't need the AssumeBFF or AssumeTFF. Telecide already forces you to pick the field-order.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies. I got this script and it's working for me. My AVI file is Huffyuv 2.1 - top field first.
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\decomb521.dll")
AVISource("IronMaiden-a.avi")
Telecide(order=1)
Decimate(cycle=5, mode=0)

--Leonid

[leonid_makarovsky]

>Telecide(order = 0, guide = 1)

What does guide = 1 do?

I tried Telecide(order = 1) without any guides and noticed that when scene is changed, there're some duplicate frames left before or after the scene is changed.

--Leonid

[Boulder]

Originally posted by leonid_makarovsky

What does guide = 1 do?


Read the docs..it's the pattern guide for Telecide. If you know the pattern, you'll get better field matching.

[leonid_makarovsky]

The original source of the footage is pure film. I captured it with my TV Tuner card at 29.976fps with Huffyuv codec.

After I have made the DVD feading the following script into TMPGenc
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\decomb521.dll")
AVISource("IronMaiden_LAD.avi")
Telecide(order = 1, guide = 0)
Decimate(cycle = 5, mode = 0)

I noticed that when the scene is changed on the edge (sharp transition), the frames are usually repeated.

There're usually 2 scenarios

A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A5 B0 B1 B2.... (A5 is repeated before going to next scene)

or

A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 B0 B0 B1 B2.... (B0 is repeated)

Where A is shot from one camera immediately followed by B - shot from another camera.

I was wondering if I can change that pattern and make it something like this:

A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A5_bottom_field/B0_top_field B0 B1 B2

so that it will give me smoother transition.

Thanks in advance.

--Leonid

[Boulder]

Did you try guide=1 in Telecide()? That's the one you should use for IVTC.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Originally posted by Boulder
Did you try guide=1 in Telecide()? That's the one you should use for IVTC.

Yes, I did. When I used guide = 0, I'd be getting
A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A5 B0 B1 B2
or
A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 B0 B0 B1 B2

but when I used guide = 1, I was getting
A0 A1 A2 A3 A3 A4 A5 B0 B1....

so one frame of the same scene was repeated (A3).

Any other options I should consider? There must be a way to put 2 fields from the different scenes together.

--Leonid

[tritical]

I was wondering if I can change that pattern and make it something like this:

A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A5_bottom_field/B0_top_field B0 B1 B2

so that it will give me smoother transition.
Any other options I should consider? There must be a way to put 2 fields from the different scenes together.
Well, if you really want to do that then telecide definitely isn't the answer... it is intended to *not* produce combed frames, which is exactly what you are wanting to achieve with the above pattern. My question is are you planning on viewing the result on a progressive or interlaced display? If progressive then you definitely don't want to do this... and if interlaced then why can't you simply leave the clip as is to start with?

[leonid_makarovsky]

Originally posted by tritical
Well, if you really want to do that then telecide definitely isn't the answer... it is intended to *not* produce combed frames, which is exactly what you are wanting to achieve with the above pattern. My question is are you planning on viewing the result on a progressive or interlaced display? If progressive then you definitely don't want to do this... and if interlaced then why can't you simply leave the clip as is to start with?

Hi,

If Telecide is not a solution, what would the solution be?

I'm planning to watch it on both - regular TV and computer. Mostly TV.

The video was captured from LaserDisc at 29.97. I personally think if I comb 2 different fields together in one frame during the *change of the scene* transition, it's not going to hurt, is it?

About the guide = 0 vs guide = 1. If the source is 100% film, should guide always be 1?

Another reason why I decided to go progressive is that the footage is 85 minutes. If I encode it progressively, I can fit the whole thing on DVDR with TMPGenc of CQ at 84% with frame rate 23.976fps. Now if I encode it interlaced, I will have to use CQ of much lower percentege number (thus lower bit rate) with frame rate 29.976.

And also if I encode it interlaced, I won't be able to view it on progressive monitors. But encoding it pregressively still allows me to watch it on regular TVs.

--Leonid

[Cyberia]

The original source of the footage is pure film. I captured it with my TV Tuner card at 29.976fps with Huffyuv codec.
To me a "FILM" source implies a progressive, non-combed source. If you have progressive frames, then you shouldn't be using Telecide. Are combing artifacts visible?

And also if I encode it interlaced, I won't be able to view it on progressive monitors. But encoding it pregressively still allows me to watch it on regular TVs.
This is completely untrue.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Originally posted by Cyberia
To me a "FILM" source implies a progressive, non-combed source.

That's right. The *original* source was a film. Then they put it on LaserDisc with 3:2 pulldown. So now I have interlaced footage of the film.

If you have progressive frames, then you shouldn't be using Telecide. Are combing artifacts visible?

But I want to reconstruct the original frames from telecined fields. The telecide is doing a good job. The only thing was bad are repeated frames during the transitions.

This is completely untrue.

But watching the interlaced 3:2 footage on computer screen will not be as smooth as progressive. There won't be any inverse 3:2 pulldown when I watch it with software DVD players.

--Leonid

[manono]

Hi-

The only thing was bad are repeated frames during the transitions.

Are they repeated in the source? The reason I ask is that I've seen cases where for one reason or another there just are extra duplicate frames in the source. No big deal in my opinion, as duplicate frames aren't really noticeable at playback.

Now, if Decomb isn't doing it's job properly, then in addition to having remaining duplicate frames, you'll also have dropped or missing frames to compensate. That will make for obviously jerky playback. But since you haven't mentioned anything about that, I'd let it go.

[leonid_makarovsky]

>Are they repeated in the source?

No. I don't think so.

>Now, if Decomb isn't doing it's job properly, then in addition to
>having remaining duplicate frames, you'll also have dropped or
>missing frames to compensate. That will make for obviously jerky
>playback. But since you haven't mentioned anything about that, I'd

If I set guide = 1, I do notice missing frames (in the middles of the scene) as well as duplicate frames at the edges. But when I have guide = 0, I didn't notice any missing frames.

--Leonid

[leonid_makarovsky]

I've tried different thing with that clip. Tried setting post from 0 to 5 in Telecide and tried setting mode from 0 to 3. The best thing that works for me is Telecide(..., guide = 0, post = 2) Decimate(..., mode = 0).

This is what happens. I get the video like this when I set guide = 0:

A0 A1 A2 A3 A3 B0 B1 B3 B4

B2 is indeed missing

If I set guide = 1, I get this:

A0 A1 A2 A3 B0 B1 B3 B3 B4 B6

B1 is combed with 2 different fields, B2 and B4 are missing, B3 is duplicated.

I noticed what the original interlaced footage looked like:
A0/A0 A1/A2 A2/A3 A3/A3 A4/B0 (that's the edge) B0/B1 B1/B1 B2/B2 etc....

So I guess it guide = 0 throws away A4 as it doesn't have anything to match with. Anyway guide = 0 is probably the best for me. Another alternative not to have it as film, but have it as NTSC video.

--Leonid

[manono]

Have you tried SmartDecimate on it yet? Or TIVTC? Or IT? Lots of choices. SmartDecimate can sometimes work better than Decomb when orphaned fields are involved.

And sometimes Decimate(10).Decimate(9) will work better than Decimate(5) when every so often the duplicate falls on the 6th frame, rather than on the 5th, or if you have 2 dupes in a sequence of 5 frames. Maybe that's the case here.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Originally posted by manono
Have you tried SmartDecimate on it yet? Or TIVTC? Or IT? Lots of choices. SmartDecimate can sometimes work better than Decomb when orphaned fields are involved.

And sometimes Decimate(10).Decimate(9) will work better than Decimate(5) when every so often the duplicate falls on the 6th frame, rather than on the 5th, or if you have 2 dupes in a sequence of 5 frames. Maybe that's the case here.

I've never heard about SmartDecimate or TIVTC or IT. Can you point me to the right place to grab them.

I haven't tried Decimate(10).Decimate(9). What should the correct syntax look like?

clip = Decimate(clip, cycle = 10, mode = 0).Decimate(clip, cycle = 9, mode = 0)?

--Leonid

[manono]

You can get SmartDecimate and IT here. (http://www.avisynth.org/Section+3%3A+Filters%2C+plugins+and+colorspaces#q3.5) You can get TIVTC here. (http://bengal.missouri.edu/~kes25c/TIVTCv094.zip)

I usually just go:

Telecide(Order=1,Guide=1).Decimate(10).Decimate(9)

But if yours' is a capture, the field order may be different. I guess your syntax will work. Too much typing for me, though. :)

[leonid_makarovsky]

Originally posted by manono
Have you tried SmartDecimate on it yet?

I just did. Beautiful! Thank you very much!!!

--Leonid