How many passes for CCE SP and when?

[Sir Didymus]

@TheSeeker. Hi, :)


From the tests you have performed so far do we conclude that OPV shows better mathematical accuracy (Per SSIM) than multi pass at LOW compressions.

Yes. IN AVERAGE. You may observe that actually the std. deviation is higher, meaning that [IN THAT CELL OF THAT MOVIE]:

1. for OPV in some frames the SSIM is better than VBR multipass
2. in other frames it is worse
3. in average it is better
4. when it is worse it makes, in average, more mistakes than VBR


And multipass is better at HIGH compreesion ratios, (again only mathematically, according to SSIM)?

Never said this, and never tested. It is an hypothesis of PG55555. I simply do not know. My feeling is that it is not true, but it is just a feeling... And I am ready to change soon my opinion on this subject... Maybe next week I will do some SSIM testing at low bitrates...


What Im really asking for IS YOUR OPINION, on when OPV might be a good idea and when multipass might work better, given the SSIM values you have observed in your thorough testing. Again Im aware that your opinion will be based on mathematical observations that you have made using SSIM (Which may or may not be an objective testing apparatus).

My opinion is to use OPV when you want to obtain an excellent encoding in (around) half of the time of the quickest VBR sessions. If you have the time to do 1+1 passes in VBR do it; if you have a lot of time and you are very worried about the quality of your encodings you may do 1+2 passes. If you are so concerned about the quality to give 1+5 or more passes with CCE, maybe there is something wrong in your concept of quality... But that's just an opinion...

Cheers,
SD

[TheSeeker]

So it seems like if time is no issue at all than 1+2 passes is a good idea.... That is pretty much what I thought. Thanks for the great tests and keep up the good work Didy. (You dont mind that i call you Didy do you?)

[pg55555]

Sir Didymus
Never told to anyone to believe in SSIM. It is just a metric for evaluating a similarity index, that actually have many limitations. Nevertheless it is a method, and it could be used by everyone having the time to use it. Get a look to the original paper (I gave a precise reference in my previous post). I found it a nice and very interesting reading!!!.
You are right. I was lazy and posted my opinion about how SSIM worked without reading Zhou Wang's papers.
I have read some of them now, and after understanding around 1% :D of them I can see the "similarity index" is a lot more sophisticated than what I have thought.
Ok. That demonstrates it could be useful to do some tests with bitrates ~3000...
Really thats what I wanted to suggest. Most of my comments were made to rationalizate why this testing could produce different results.

The last test for this week is with Procoder
You are really a very dedicated man. And as such, you are not affraid of getting into troubled waters:)
As if it were not enough to put some rationality into "the right number of CCE passes" now you aventure into the "what is better, CCE or Procoder" issue.
The next step should be the "DVDShrink 3.2 with ACE produces the same or better quality than Rebuilder with CCE at 70% compression" discussion.:)

Now seriously, I'm thinking your methodology and the SSIM analysis coould be extended to answer, objectivelly although may be partially, some of the hot issues of the DVD backup community, such as:
- CCE vs QuEnc vs ReJig
- RB vs Shrink at several compression levels
- MPEG2 720 x 480 at 3000 bps or Half D1 (352 x 480)at 6000 bps
- What AEC setting in Shrink (Max Sharp, Sharp, Smoth or Max Smothness)

Someone daring to test?

Pablo

[Sir Didymus]

Pablo, "Now seriously..." ????

LOL,

you don't want to see me killed right ?:p

[pg55555]

you don't want to see me killed right ?
You are in Italy, you are mostly safe

(although we latinos are very passionate and just one angry latino could be worth ten gringos:D )

Pablo

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
...
(You dont mind that i call you Didy do you?) [/B]

Not at all; to say the thruth when I entered my nickname, my first choice was simply "Didymus" but it was already in use by someone else :devil: in the doom9 forum... Didy is fine and it is proper...

Cheers,
SD

[robot1]

Originally posted by pg55555

Now seriously, I'm thinking your methodology and the SSIM analysis coould be extended to answer, objectivelly although may be partially, some of the hot issues of the DVD backup community, such as:
- CCE vs QuEnc vs ReJig
- RB vs Shrink at several compression levels
- MPEG2 720 x 480 at 3000 bps or Half D1 (352 x 480)at 6000 bps
- What AEC setting in Shrink (Max Sharp, Sharp, Smoth or Max Smothness)

Someone daring to test?

Pablo [/B]While I think that SSIM results are valid in test with the same encoder (as SD did with CCE), I doubt about the results when you compare different encoders (or transcoders).
I did some tests (posted on the doom9 italian forum, if someone is interested I could find the link) with CCE, Shrink2.1 (not the last one!) and Procoder.
Quality of Procoder and CCE was very good, while Shrink had a lots of blocks (not true for the last version, but I did the test in july).
Anyway SSIM of the Shrinked clip was better than the one of the CCE clip (which was perfect, but the colors were just a bit washed).
Looking at the backup, the CCE one was very pleasant, and you couldn't notice any differences from the original in normal play.
Procoder quality was at the same level (or even better, for my taste).

In short: I think one should use SSIM to test only clips encoded by the same encoder.

[Boulder]

ProCoder would be an excellent choice if it allowed custom quant matrices.. the standard matrix looks ugly to my eyes, flat coloured background areas are very uneasy while CCE deals with them just fine with a low-bitrate matrix. I don't know about high bitrates (~4000kbps and above) since I very rarely use them, my encodes are mostly in the 2000-3500kbps range.

[robot1]

When ProCoder will allow custom matrices and a good CQ Mode (now it's unusable...), it will be the killer encoder ... if QuEnc/NuEnc doesn't step ahead ;)

@Boulder
OT: Do you use RB-Opt for OPV in DVD-RB? How is the target size estimation?

[Boulder]

The prediction is quite accurate, I've done a couple of movies, one with several 20-30min parts. I actually pointed SansGrip towards the method at kvcd.net, it was a creation of one of us regulars over there;)

[jorel]

@ Sir Didymus
you got pm ..and thanks cos from the begining i wrote that opinions don't means nothing and this thread is turning too big with lots of "i think" or "do that" or "use this" and/or "maybe"...:rolleyes: really bored, right?. you are the first that want to show the results and not only opinions. opinions run free inside imaginations and tastes but tests and results go straight in the final direction.i'm not important in any thread but all threads with longs opinions, bla, bla, blas without prooves and results for me means nothing...if anyone have don't have something better to show that "i think", sorry but i will go out and i'm thankfull for your tests even before i see it Sir Didymus cos my tests need more time to do that yours tests.i will that you understand my position and don't see me as one that close the door..i'm only trying to close the ears to listen opinions but i'm with eyes opened to see results! thank you.i'm waiting your tests! best regards.
;)

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by pg55555
Sir Didymus

You are right. I was lazy and posted my opinion about how SSIM worked without reading Zhou Wang's papers.
I have read some of them now, and after understanding around 1% :D of them I can see the "similarity index" is a lot more sophisticated than what I have thought.

Really thats what I wanted to suggest. Most of my comments were made to rationalizate why this testing could produce different results.


You are really a very dedicated man. And as such, you are not affraid of getting into troubled waters:)
As if it were not enough to put some rationality into "the right number of CCE passes" now you aventure into the "what is better, CCE or Procoder" issue.
The next step should be the "DVDShrink 3.2 with ACE produces the same or better quality than Rebuilder with CCE at 70% compression" discussion.:)

Now seriously, I'm thinking your methodology and the SSIM analysis coould be extended to answer, objectivelly although may be partially, some of the hot issues of the DVD backup community, such as:
- CCE vs QuEnc vs ReJig
- RB vs Shrink at several compression levels
- MPEG2 720 x 480 at 3000 bps or Half D1 (352 x 480)at 6000 bps
- What AEC setting in Shrink (Max Sharp, Sharp, Smoth or Max Smothness)

Someone daring to test?

Pablo As was mentioned earlier -- be careful if you intend to use SSIM to compare different packages. I have seen comparisons that to the eye were intuitively obvious to the casual observer, but in SSIM values said the opposite. Numbers can lie.

My favorite example is the statistics of the hospital. In the U.S. ten times more people die in hospitals than other places. So the numbers say you have a 10:1 better chance of survival if you don't go to the hospital... hmmm...

SSIM is great for comparing apples to apples...

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by jorel
@ Sir Didymus
you got pm ..and thanks cos from the begining i wrote that opinions don't means nothing and this thread is turning too big with lots of "i think" or "do that" or "use this" and/or "maybe"...:rolleyes: really bored, right?. you are the first that want to show the results and not only opinions. opinions run free inside imaginations and tastes but tests and results go straight in the final direction.i'm not important in any thread but all threads with longs opinions, bla, bla, blas without prooves and results for me means nothing...if anyone have don't have something better to show that "i think", sorry but i will go out and i'm thankfull for your tests even before i see it Sir Didymus cos my tests need more time to do that yours tests.i will that you understand my position and don't see me as one that close the door..i'm only trying to close the ears to listen opinions but i'm with eyes opened to see results! thank you.i'm waiting your tests! best regards.
;)

The whole point of all the OPINIONS has been that even though tests are run in the most objective, and thorough way possible. In the end it still really just is a matter of opinion on what encoder and or encoding package is the best for any given movie. If you feel so strongly about opinions why dont you make yours matter, and work on some tests of your own? because I personally dont really like how you take any thread you post in and criticize everything in it.

[jorel]

@ TheSeeker
if you pay atention,(seems hard for you :rolleyes: )read your answer in my first post.let me quote for you:
like is wroten is one opinion but who have patience to do 4 or 5 steps with CCE always get better results.
we have two types of tastes to encode:
fast for more or less quality or
slow with 5 passes for who want quality.
only who do 4/5 steps with CCE knows that the result is different and it's not one more opinion,that's a fact! only don't agree who never did it.
One Pass VBR (w/Analysis)is EXPERIMENTALand deserve extreme care and quality comparisons, not only velocity to encode.what means? one pass vbr is EXPERIMENTALand experimental means that need and deserve TESTS and observations, NOT OPINIONS, and DO your own tests and proove to yourself, this is what i wrote.
now stop to be wise in your own vision and post your RESULTS,not one more opinion and don't blame me if you don't read what is wroten and still don't did any test....you are here only posting more opinions and we all don't need more opinions. post RESULTS to stop this river of full things posted like your lazy opinion without results....is clear now,or you will post MORE opinions!?!?!? :p
don't be LAZY, do your own tests with 4 or 5 passes against the EXPERIMENTAL one pass vbr! and yes, i'm always against lazy opinions but never against facts!

and "someone" posted this answering me: @Jorel
I agree with you that you may get a MINISCULE quality boost by doing 4 passes instead of 2... But for ME that little bit of a quality boost isnt worth the extra 3 hours. For YOU i guess is its so more power to ya.. do as many passes as you like. hum..you agree but now want to proove the reverse... if you don't did tests, how you change your mind (again)?...sounds strange, right? :rolleyes:
i still can't listen opinions against or in favor, i trust in the results!!!can you do tests now? :p
please, stop to post fool things and against me too!see how is boring read and write bla, bla, blas...
be positive or negative, not as "short-circuit" :p or you can damage your connections.
do something produtive and don't understand my answer as "rash" and forgive my poor english!

...thanks!

:)

[Boulder]

Originally posted by jorel
one pass vbr is EXPERIMENTALand experimental means that need and deserve TESTS and observations, NOT OPINIONS, and DO your own tests and proove to yourself, this is what i wrote.

jorel,

OPV is experimental in DVD-RB, and I suppose that's because it requires predicting the Q value and that isn't probably tested extensively. I'm sure jdobbs will correct me if I'm wrong. OPV has been in CCE for ages so it's definitely not experimental in that sense. It's almost the same as encoding with a constant quantizer and there is nothing experimental about that.

[jdobbs]

OPV in CCE is definitely not experimental.

What is experimental is my algorithms for predicting size and whether OPV is a good choice in its application to DVD. OPV seems to sometimes result in some pretty wild bitrate swings in support of keeping the Q factor constant.

Others have reported it as working very well -- I'm personally not as confident.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Boulder
jorel,

OPV is experimental in DVD-RB, Boulder...i know!
Originally posted by Boulder

and I suppose that's because it requires predicting the Q value and that isn't probably tested extensively. you "suppose"!?!? :eek: :rolleyes: this is one more opinion Boulder and suppositions don't show anything. :p
Originally posted by Boulder

I'm sure jdobbs will correct me if I'm wrong. OPV has been in CCE for ages so it's definitely not experimental in that sense. It's almost the same as encoding with a constant quantizer and there is nothing experimental about that. well, the title of this thread is: " How many passes for CCE Sp and When?"....right? then, only results of tests can show "how many passes and when" and not lots of opinions and suppositions.i did tests and i always use 4,sometimes 5 passes and i get better results. we had changing opinions and discussions a long time and nobody have one final position.only after you and all here do your own tests will find the answer to this thread and not posting opinions that we have read here and there. i can't find arguments to answer opinions and suppositions, is really hard and bored for my poor english but trusty results can change my and/or your minds, not convictions.

do you finally know what i mean now Boulder?

[jdobbs]

Okay. This has gone on long enough. Let's stop the back-and-forth -- it is serving no purpose any longer.

[jorel]

@ Boulder
only to refresh you memory, re read what we posted here: http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12323&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=32 and in the next page when i was telling you about multipass vbr, your opinion was and remains reverse but you still don't show your results, but i posted one of my results here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12700&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=208 and you knew that thread too but again what i got was only opinions, discussions and opponents that never proove anything posting in one closed club where who was again't the 3 " mosqueteiros" got rude answers.see that RoBa is with dvd-rb now and you don't like that when i show you.
in the end, after i post samples, links: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12323&start=64 , prooves: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=73243&perpage=20&pagenumber=8 and tylo build a special RoBa version for multipasses: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=73243&perpage=20&pagenumber=9 and you still have suppositions and convictions but not prooves after tests....jorel don't answer in kvcd forum and you, better than all know the reasons and the principal is that the 3 "mosqueteiros" only do opinions together inside his closed threads and never listen who try to show or proove the reverse.
sorry Boulder.....good times, bad times...!
do you have results?
:p

[jorel]

Originally posted by jdobbs
Okay. This has gone on long enough. Let's stop the back-and-forth -- it is serving no purpose any longer.
i agree and sorry, we posted at the same time, i only saw your last post after mine.
:)

[pg55555]

Sir Didymus

I was thinking (sometimes I do) that a good test to verify the relevance of the SIMM method to measure quality would be to test different bitrates with the same numbers of passes.

What I mean is, we all agree that a clip encoded to a VBR of 3000 should be of lower quality than one encoded to 4500. Right?

So, I suggest to test your clip with CCE 1+1 passes, with bitrates 4250 (already done), 4000, 3500, 3000, 2500, 2000.

The similarity index should be worsening with the diminishing bitrate. But how much? What it is going to be the range? From 0.98 to 0.50? Or from 0.9815 to 0.9810?

How well it discriminates the subjective quality? You can watch the resulting clips and attach your personnal opinion about the results, ie:

VBR SIMM Std.Dev. Subjective Quality
4250 0.981479 0,008241 Excellent, Indistinguishable from original
4000 0.98050 0,010000 Idem
3500 0.95 0.02 Very Good.
...
2000 0.60 0.05 Crap - Macroblocks all around

NOTE: These figures are just an example of the kind of output you could get. They do not represent the result of any test.

Your opinion?

Pablo

[Sir Didymus]

Hi!

This type of test (I mean just tweaking the average bitrate in the already available ecl files) is very easy to carry out, and the tested cell of the movie is very interesting, since it is composed by parts that are very static and parts of fight, that are very very dynamic...

I have just the following remarks:

1. Manually tweaking the average bitrate is introducing a sort of "artificial element" in the test; maybe it would be better to use a cell were the wanted average bitrate is the result of the real DVD-RB allocation strategy...

2. What about the maximum bitrate ? I think people obtain low average bitrates when keeping more than a single AC3 audio track... In such situations also the maximum bitrate should be reduced...

3. I totally reject your suggestions of making five more full tests at 4000, 3500, 3000, 2500, 2000: ;) I would prefere making "just" four more tests at 3750, 3250, 2750, 2250...

4. I would prefere making anyways more than a single vbr pass, building up some tables like this:


Average SSIM 3750Kbps 3250Kbps 2750Kbps 2250Kbps
pass 1+1
pass 1+2
pass 1+3
pass 1+4
pass 1+5
pass 1+6
pass 1+7
pass 1+8
pass 1+9


and


Std. Dev. SSIM 3750Kbps 3250Kbps 2750Kbps 2250Kbps
pass 1+1
pass 1+2
pass 1+3
pass 1+4
pass 1+5
pass 1+6
pass 1+7
pass 1+8
pass 1+9


leaving all the subjective evaluations aside, or just included as comment, if necessary...

5. Of course it would be nice also testing the same with at least three other quant. matrices (the two CCE for Low BR and Ultra Low BR and the popular KVCD_notch)...

6. I am start to understand I made a mistake posting into this thread... A BIG MISTAKE :scared:

SD

[pg55555]

I am start to understand I made a mistake posting into this thread... A BIG MISTAKE
In Spanish there is an expression: "Tarde piaste pollito" , meaning "Too late" :)

I'd be very pleased to see a table as you propose, but my suggestion of doing it for just fixed number of passes was in order to reduce the amount of work required. It has also the benefit of limiting the controversies, as we all agree that with a lower bitrate you would get a worse quality.

The "just" four bitrates you suggest are "just" OK for me :) . To further reduce the workload I would suggest reducing the number of different passes tested, but if you want to test again the "no mathematical convergence" of multiple passes in CCE, you are welcome.

Regarding you remarks about the bitrates, I can understand your points, but I think it is important to do the tests always with the same cell.

As a workaround strategy maybe we (I mean you) can generate the different bitrates through RB, by a combination of:
- Changing the number of audio tracks
- Changing the TargetSectors setting in order to force a certain level of compression
- Using the "Half D1..." and "Steal Space from Extras" settings
- Using RBOpt to tweak the final average.

Measurement of the impact of low bitrate filters, would also be welcome.

But before getting to there, I would suggest to try just with a fixed number of passes and manually tweaking the bitrate, to verify if SIMM is a valid discriminator of quality for CCE encodes.
What if for 4250 Kbps the SIMM value is 0.9815 (as in your test) and for 2250 Kbps is 0.9700? SIMM would be a measure of quality but its discriminator power would seem to be limited.
Or, watching the clip you will see that actually the quality at 2000 Kbps is very good, and so that SIMM value is a good indication of quality. (From this possibility arised my suggestion of watching and provide some subjective feedback about what those SIMM numbers mean.)

Pablo

[Boulder]

jorel,

why don't you post some screenshots and/or sample clips here? I didn't see any in those threads. That way others may also participate in evaluating the results.

[jorel]

jorel,

why don't you post some screenshots and/or sample clips here? I didn't see any in those threads. That way others may also participate in evaluating the results. what? :confused: :scared:

Boulder
are you reading?

Originally posted by jorel
@ Boulder
but i posted one of my results here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12700&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=208 and you knew that thread too but again what i got was only opinions,
one picture, link to full page of the picture, how i did the menu and respective pictures...what you don't saw?
want a sample for the encode? i can cut and post here too but ONLY if you read what is wroten or i will waste my time again!
-->read about tylo and RoBa!!!
read the others links posted in my post too....->please!

[jorel]

for friends that can't login in kvcd forum, the same link to the screenshot posted there:

http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3641/ts17.jpg

ot:
i know that DVD-RB can use original menus,etc.
but
you all can swear that is better use DVD-RB that still have some issues(but is cool)
that use D2S to main movie and author menus,etc with dvdlab or tmpgencdvdauthor?!?!?
D2s-roba give me perfect size with:
CCE 266(kvcd nothch)min=700,max=8000 from 200Mb to 4,5Gb!
wonderfull quality!
see: KDVD toy story 1 & 2 with lots of extras and with original AC3-5.1.

menu 1 and 2 (pictures with 50% size)
menu1:
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/6905/menu3.jpg

menu2:
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3233/menu5.jpg

scene from toy story.
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3641/ts17.th.jpg

click for full size:
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3641/ts17.jpg

not so bad ...never had problems usind D2S.
(and have a new D2S-Roba....tylo build a special version for me :wink: )

can one of you explain-me why i have to change to DVD-RB with issues?
nothing against your tastes, and if you're getting better results.i need to learn....i only don't understand why is better use DVD-RB!?!?
ot end
thanks!

@ all here, please read with atention:
jorel in kvcd forum is dead....don't live there as mod or single member!!
in my old signature is wroten:
"steady kvcd-kdvd maker & EX-witch-hunter 2
and the wiiners are....the witches!
Let's they make better poisons"

this was my sincere opinion in Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:15 pm and now dvd-rb change to better but i still don't use cos i don't like the menus coming first, i like the movie start alone and IF i want i call the menu.then to watch the movie my kid only need to close the door of the standalone and i don't like a freezed menu waiting for commands.....my personal taste is auto-start.
thanks!
:)

[Boulder]

Well, one picture isn't enough. If you want to compare and let others do the same, you'll have to provide more than that. Several images and clips, preferably from different kinds of scenes, encoded in several ways (passes 1-9, OPV). Just like SD has been doing. Otherwise it's impossible to compare the quality!

[dragongodz]

if i may offer a couple of small comments.

while looking at charts done for SSIM or whatever quality evaluation tool is interesting it will never replace the 1 tool you will always use. that is your own eyes. they will give you more real feedback than anything else and can never be fooled as to what you will think looks better. :)

also certain things can be taken as true, such as throw enough bitrate at something and no new artifact or blocks etc will be created and it will look like the original(or pretty damn close). however comparing the quality of different encodes will always be individual and opinion(which should not need to be said) as everyone is an individual with individual tastes. person A will like encode A better while person B will like encode B better, thats life.

so please remember that when asking for proof of quality or such. :D

[jorel]

Originally posted by dragongodz
if i may offer a couple of small comments.

while looking at charts done for SSIM or whatever quality evaluation tool is interesting it will never replace the 1 tool you will always use. that is your own eyes. they will give you more real feedback than anything else and can never be fooled as to what you will think looks better. :)

also certain things can be taken as true, such as throw enough bitrate at something and no new artifact or blocks etc will be created and it will look like the original(or pretty damn close). however comparing the quality of different encodes will always be individual and opinion(which should not need to be said) as everyone is an individual with individual tastes. person A will like encode A better while person B will like encode B better, thats life.

so please remember that when asking for proof of quality or such. :D
wonderfull post dragon!
your last phrase have the "spirit",the synthesis of the whole thread, very cool! :D

@ Boulder
like i wrote here thousands times, do your own tests to compare and choose what is better.all my tests show me that multipass vbr is always better. my samples never will change your mind but your own tests will do it for me. this is what i'm writing in this thread from the begining: do your own tests with multipass vbr and choose 4 or 5 steps but if you or anyone is lazy to do that.....what can i do? i search for quality in the result and not fast solutions!
i can't proove anything for you posting screenshots or samples cos i did a long time as posted and you want MORE!

do your own tests and....change your mind (and read what is wroten)!

[Boulder]

Believe me, I've been in the video encoding business long enough to do my own comparisons. Based on them, I see no reason to spend the time it takes to do a 4-pass encode when I can have the same or better quality with just one pass.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Boulder
Believe me, I've been in the video encoding business long enough to do my own comparisons. Based on them, I see no reason to spend the time it takes to do a 4-pass encode when I can have the same or better quality with just one pass.

this is the point that you don't listen Boulder:
i'm in video encoding at -->more time that you and if you don't do the tests you will stay secure of your position cos only after the test you can be firm. seems to much scenic and philosofic and it don't proove nothing. don't be *stubborn(excuse my english)and do a long test to compare---> then you can post what you got and not one opinion from what you don't did!

* you and all know me a long time and knows about my english limitations, i don't have bad intentions or to be agressive! :o

@ jdobbs and all
i can't post no more in this topic cos i don't have news to show,only repetitive phrases and recomendations with links and posts.
we can't go to one final position and we are one interference in the great work of jdobbs that is in my opinion the person that give the best support in the whole world for one program cos i still don't use dvd-rb but i can see his wonderfull support easily .
i'm not against and never will be dvd-rb, i only know that multipass vbr in CCe is better and maybe jdobbs remember when he was called(for me) in another forum to show that someone was posting against dvd-rb.
i post links screenshots, samples everything in jdobbsand dvd-rb favor cos i knew that the result from one user there was completely wrong. as i know jdoobs job and CCE results, i came here to call jdobbs do help me in that place.
as you all can see, i don't use dvd-rb but i know what it can give to me and my intention is to encrease the quality of dvd-rb result before i start to use....seems to me one good intention!

thanks all!
:)

[jorel]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
@jorel & every one interested in the files

I uploaded the following files to a server adopting dynamic links, so please send to me, via PM, in the next five days, a suitable e_mail address; I will reply with a working link where to download the files; sorry for the trouble...

Files are related to the performed test. Please consider that (except the first one, which is quite small) all the files are very BIG, so just dowload what you really need...

* Uncompressed images + xls files (zip):
* Source_V1C3.m2v (197283286 byte)
* test_1+1.m2v (144151828 byte)
* test_1+2.m2v (144347056 byte)
* test_1+9.m2v (144344604 byte)

They will be available just for 5 days (until 29.11.2004 01:40:05 PM CET).

@Wmansir:
I hope I am not infringing any of the doom9 rules; if so please feel free to edit my post or to delete the whole post...
NOOO NOT THE WHOLE THREAD...
:D

SD

oh no......i'm back! :p

Sir Didymus,
i got this files:
uncompressed images + xls files.zip 2.867Kb (18 files inside)
Source_V1C3.m2v 192.660Kb
test_1+2.m2v 140.964Kb
test_1+9.m2v 140.962Kb

---> but don't have links to find and download the * test_1+1.m2v (144151828 byte). :confused: :confused:
can you send the link to my mail please??? (urgent)

thanks in advance!
:)

[Sir Didymus]

Hi jorel!

actually taking some rest (you know here in Italy w/e means relax)...
Also using now a low speed connection...
On next monday I will upload again 1+1 & 1+3...
Sorry for the inconvenience...

Cheers,
SD

[jorel]

:scared: or :p ??

i don't know if i cry or lol. i download big samples and the only file that don't came is (don't know why :rolleyes: )
---> the exact 1+1 that you defend. :rolleyes: only GOD know the reason but i can imagine. :rolleyes:

more strange is that you give me 5 days to download it and i stop to do lots of things to download your tests you needed faster!

the extreme stupid for my taste is that now you are taking some rest (you know here in Italy w/e means relax).... :eek:
now i'm in doubt and undecided cos i can't choose for what "place" send you....or to hell or to the house of some aunt to eat her ...spagetti or another hot place...don't know where is better. :confused: :confused:

you have 24 hours or i trash everything and you will have to find
another way to proove that your're wrong,cos you did your tests wrong, ok?

24 hours!

[Boulder]

Calm down jorel, he's doing the tests for fun :) He probably has the samples on his computer at work, which has a fast connection.

[jdobbs]

ROTFLMAO.

This is ridiculous.

MEET ME AT HIGH NOON
SLAP LEATHER
GRAB YER SHOOTIN' IRONS
PULL THEM SMOKE WAGONS AND PUMP EACH OTHER FULL O' LEAD
MY ENCODIN' CAN KICK YOUR DADDY'S ASS!!!

How long is this going to go on? Do I have to close this thread?

[Boulder]

Exactly my thoughts..keep the thread civilized or get it locked. The latter option doesn't do much good to anybody;)

My apologies to you jdobbs for starting the debate in the first place:(

[jorel]

you are really "hilarious" you know everything about how the thread can go but you're not doing anything .only posting opinions and waiting a moment to post ridiculous and abstracts menace cos don't do tests but as wise you "have to have the reason" or will close the thread.
seems that you forgot about DVDShrink forum. when i was in your favor was different, not htat i'm not again't you but only have different opinion you can't left the oportunity to smash,right?
resuming you "clever mind":
"you all do this and do that but i don't will do anything....i'm only waiting the perfect moment to expose someone as ridiculous to get my reason."

look at yourself...can you? where was you?
doing tests or waiting a moment like this?
to win is irrelevant for you to be right or wrong, you can't loose one oportunity like that.
for you is clear what i want, right?
for me is clear what you want!
differents persons, differents targets.

@ Boulder
you was one "precious" person, i know you a loooong time Boulder,no surprises, i know your traps and cynicism, you are always building gangs just waiting the best moment of snare!
do you want that i post links showing samples about that too?
:rolleyes:
ps:
thread saved!(please don't edit or delete - thanks!)

[Boulder]

I only asked everyone kindly to keep the thread civilized instead of any personal attacks. I tried to speak to you in a friendly way. However, you still have a problem with me and some other people but it's no good to anyone interested in the comparisons. Thus I have nothing more to say to you.

Maybe it's best to lock the thread and let SD post his results and samples in a different one.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Boulder
I only asked everyone kindly to keep the thread civilized instead of any personal attacks. I tried to speak to you in a friendly way. However, you still have a problem with me and some other people but it's no good to anyone interested in the comparisons. Thus I have nothing more to say to you.

Maybe it's best to lock the thread and let SD post his results and samples in a different one.

maybe jdobbs want to listen your opinion......not me!
for me the thread remains without your dispensable presence cos i'm downloading the "sir" tests and doing my tests in the favor of the whole community.you're not doing anything constructive here, only posting your trash opinion.
can you get out or do something? jdoobs will lock this thread and my latin blood can't stand arrogance or stupidity....do something !!!

[jdobbs]

Enough. This thread is closed.