12+ hr encoding time normal with my setup?

[bugmenot]

Hi guys,

Last night I encoded a 7.7GB disc using the following settings on my Athlon XP 1800+ w/256MB ram:
DVDRebuilder 0.64a
CCE 2.67
EclCCE

AVS options:
MPEG2SOURCE checked

CCE options:
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=6

The encoding process alone took about 12 hours. I often read encoding times of about 6 hours max even with 6 passes (I know it depends on setup of course). This PC is not that slow so I was wondering if it was the AVS setting that slowed it down, or something else. Please advise.

[TheSeeker]

I know this isnt what you asked but its been said many a time that anything over 1+3 passes is pretty much needless encoding... You could cut down on your encoding time by getting rid of 2 or 3 passes.

Did you have any filters or anything like that being applied to your movie? How long is the movie? What movie is it? Are you saying that your computer just all of a sudden started to take way longer to do the encodes? Or are you using a different computer than you normally use? What speeds did you see in CCE? Have you installed anything lately or changed hardware, or changed anything you think may effect speed of computer? Have u checked to make sure that your HD's are set up to run in UDMA mode and not PIO? I had that happen once. And PIO transfer mode is SOO much slower.

[Sayitpunk]

Mine take as long as that, and I'm using a XP2000+ and only four passes!

[bugmenot]

Man, that's a lot of questions but here I go.
Originally posted by TheSeeker
I know this isnt what you asked but its been said many a time that anything over 1+3 passes is pretty much needless encoding... You could cut down on your encoding time by getting rid of 2 or 3 passes.
Yep, I've heard it many times, but I still stick to 6 to get the best quality. People often seem to nuke DVD releases that aren't passed 5, 6 times.

Did you have any filters or anything like that being applied to your movie?
No, like I said the only option checked is the mpeg2source.

How long is the movie? What movie is it?
About 120 min. It's E.T. for what it's worth.

Are you saying that your computer just all of a sudden started to take way longer to do the encodes? Or are you using a different computer than you normally use? What speeds did you see in CCE? Have you installed anything lately or changed hardware, or changed anything you think may effect speed of computer? ...
The HDs are configured as Auto, thus DMA and I've made no hardware changes. No, it's not like I ran DVD Rebuilder before in 6 hours, this was my first run. I use different tools for different situations. When I manually do a CCE 6 pass, it seemed to only take about 6-7 hours total (hour, hour&half per pass), whereas the DVD Rebuilder run took 716 minutes.

It seems like most people take 6,7 hours for a 6 pass run. I just want to know if it's normal for an Athlon 1800+ to take 12 hours. Maybe it's due to the source which is about 7.7 Gigs, I don't know...

[Indigo]

I don't have an answer just wanted to let you know that I have the same speed.

I encoded a 2 hour movie last night, 2 passes cce only (Setup 2 in RB, does that mean 1+1 or 1+"2"?). Anyway it took 350 minutes. And I have a similar Rig. 1700+ XP AMD 512 RAM.

I guess that is the speed we can achieve. :P

[Trahald]

Originally posted by bugmenot


Yep, I've heard it many times, but I still stick to 6 to get the best quality. People often seem to nuke DVD releases that aren't passed 5, 6 times.



Please do not talk about 'releases'. Doom9 is only here for fair-use backups of your own DVDs. You should only be releasing it to yourself. Thank you.

[jdobbs]

You can't have it both ways. Either you reduce the number of passes, or you accept the additional time. The quality difference between 2 passes and 6 passes is very small -- but takes 3 times as long.

[bonefish]

try running a disc defragmenting tool, "could" be that the disk is slowing your process down

[bugmenot]

Thanks for your comments guys, appreciate it. I guess it's about normal then.

And Trahald, don't be so touchy. I know the site's not about releasing, the disc is for myself, just commenting how some people do regard 5, 6 passes as a requirement. Where did I say I was going to release it? Thank you. Relax.

[jptheripper]

that size disk takes me 28 hours.

p3 1ghz, 1.5gb ram

the time is worth it

[Trahald]

Originally posted by bugmenot
Thanks for your comments guys, appreciate it. I guess it's about normal then.

And Trahald, don't be so touchy. I know the site's not about releasing, the disc is for myself, just commenting how some people do regard 5, 6 passes as a requirement. Where did I say I was going to release it? Thank you. Relax.

Even a hint of impropriety can put the board at risk. Please refrain from mentioning releases, thats all :)

[dragongodz]

just commenting how some people do regard 5, 6 passes as a requirement.
some people will tell you little green men will visit you soon aswell, doesnt make them right. especially when even Custom Technology(makers of CCE) have said that going above 3 or 4 passes will give next to no extra quality, if any at all. :)

[p200002]

My config: P4-1.8, 768MB RAM, 1+5passes, 7GB DVD, 9 hours.

[VamPYR]

my setup
P4 3.08G, 1GB DDR dual-channel, WD raptor 36G(system),2x maxtor 80G raid at HighPoint rocket404 ata133 for encoding.
usually 2 pass take 126mins-13xmins depend of the overall % reducing and the movie running time.
i'll do 4 pass max. if 2 pass really not give good quality (for my eye only) or my source are at lower bitrate (approx.2.5mb), then i'll do 4 pass, but the quality improve was very very tiny.
usually i get 2.80-2.90 encoding speed (show in cce), sometime it happen the CPU usage already run at 45%-50% (mostly happened after i do larger file transfer from my usb2.0 device) before the encoding start, if this happen the encode time will take much much longer than usual, and encoding speed will drop to 0.99-1.10. make sure check cpu usage before start encoding.
cheers.

[bugmenot]

Originally posted by dragongodz
some people will tell you little green men will visit you soon aswell, doesnt make them right. especially when even Custom Technology(makers of CCE) have said that going above 3 or 4 passes will give next to no extra quality, if any at all. :)
Well, a lot of people seem to be doing 4+ passes, more than those telling me about little green men (kind of an inappropriate metaphor but oh well).

Yeah, I know that even CCE says 4 should be fine, but what's one more? The time additon is marginal going from 4 to 5.

Remember that I am not complaining about anything, just wondering if the time was normal. My question was whether or not 12 hours was normal for 5 passes (since first pass doesn't actually count), not whether I should do less passes.

A big thanks again to those of you that told me your times.

[Sir Didymus]

@bugmenot.

Hi, :)

It has been answered by other kind people, but I can ensure you 12 hours for 5 passes with your machine should be retained as totally acceptable. The encoding process is almost totally CPU bounded, so other slowing factors (like disks speed) can be excluded. Maybe some little factor is in the type and speed of your RAM memory. A BIG factor could be the involvement of Avisynth filters, but you have already checked this, I suppose...

Even if you didn't ask about the number of passes, as you mentioned, please do not discard the very very wise suggestion of Dragongods and other kind people...

And infact your statement seems totally true to me: "The time additon is marginal going from 4 to 5". Let me add that the time addition going from 21 to 22 is even more little...:scared:

The point it is not the relative weight of the time increase, it is its absolute value...

If you can easily reduce your encoding time by five hours, performing three passes (that is MORE than it is necessary for obtaining a perfect encoding), why don't do this ?

Cheers,
SD

[TheSeeker]

Athlon64 3000+, 1gig ddr400 ram, winxp pro on a ata133 maxtor 60gb drive and another 60 gb maxtor, and an 80gb wd hd. I see speeds of about 2.80 to 2.90 approx. in CCE. (Thats with no filters at all). A 2 hour movie doing 1+2 passes takes me about 127 minutes.

[bugmenot]

Originally posted by Sir Didymus
@bugmenot.
And infact your statement seems totally true to me: "The time additon is marginal going from 4 to 5". Let me add that the time addition going from 21 to 22 is even more little...:scared:

The point it is not the relative weight of the time increase, it is its absolute value...

Again, another inappropriate comparison... I would do 4 passes anyway for max quality, so 5 is not a big time increase. Why would I do 21? I appreciate your opinion but I hate these exagerrations you try to use to make your points... Again, I never complained about the time taken, why is it such a big deal if someone want to do 5 passes? "The point" sentence makes no sense either. What's important is for each person to decide how to encode their material. If absolute time is what mattered to me, I would just use my P4 instead of the Athlon I keep on all night. Anyway, I hope this subject of "how many encodes?" is dropped, I never brought it up in any case.

I use CCE/Rebuilder when I want the best quality, and that's why I would use at least 4 passes. When I don't care that much or think the compression isn't large I can just use one of the other transcoders that are faster. When I have time, I'll try to compare 2 pass DVD-Rebuilder (great tool BTW and getting better!) with other one click transcoders.

VAmPYR and TheSeeker, thanks for bringing up the encoding speed, I never paid attention to that. I guess I should be seeing about 1.4-1.6 with my CPU. I also have "Steal Space from Extras" enabled, wonder if that slows down speed by a lot.

[TheSeeker]

Im not entirely sure how steal space from extras works... But i think it works by looking at the avg. bitrate assigned to the extras (defined as the smallest set of vts materials in dvdrb) and then stealing 25 percent of that bitrate if thats the setting you have checked. It then distributes the bitrate gaine evenly across all the vob id's in the main movie vts. I THINK that is how it works. Im sure someone a little more knowledgable could give a better answer. But my point is that NO i dont think that steal space from extras should slow down your encode at all.

[jdobbs]

It looks at the number of sectors taken by extras and reduces it by the selected percentage before the bitrate calculations are done. The recovered space is then available to the main movie -- so its bitrate would rise based upon the size of that space.

[dragongodz]

kind of an inappropriate metaphor but oh well
Again, another inappropriate comparison
no they were an exageration to make clear a point. whether you find them appropriate or not just shows your failure to comprahend the information trying to be imparted to you.

a lot of people seem to be doing 4+ passes,
funny i see the majority doing UP TO 4 passes but not many doing more.

Yeah, I know that even CCE says 4 should be fine, but what's one more?
a waste of time ? you did ask. :D
but it is your time to waste. nobody is telling you that you must do less passes just that you are not gaining anything by doing them.

My question was whether or not 12 hours was normal for 5 passes (since first pass doesn't actually count), not whether I should do less passes.
since you made the comment about people saying 5 or 6 passes are a requirement you did open it for comment. if you want to labour under misinformation then fine by me.

[bugmenot]

Man, you must have a lot of time on your hands Dragon-whatever... LOL

[TheSeeker]

Actually I was thinking the same thing about you bugmenot... I mean YOU are the one who is doing all those needless passes for pretty much no gain in quality.

[bugmenot]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Actually I was thinking the same thing about you bugmenot... I mean YOU are the one who is doing all those needless passes for pretty much no gain in quality.
Actually, no. The encoding is done mostly while I sleep on a secondary PC. Again, read what I said earlier. 4+ means 4 and up (I guess dragon- doesn't understand that). As even dragon- mentioned, most people do up to 4 passes, meaning I am pretty much doing one extra pass at 5. "All those needless passes"? Yet another exagerration I guess. (I'm sounding like Bush in 3rd debate.)

Wow, you guys are so touchy. Get out a bit and maybe you'll both calm down a bit. I'm sorry but I don't know what else could account for such nastiness over nothing. We're just talking about encoding DVDs, aren't we?

Still, thanks to all that gave me good info.

[TheSeeker]

Naw Im not nasty at all... I think its just your smug attitude that rubs me the wrong way maybe. Not being critical or anything... some people just dont get along. Im actually quite easy going. and its just that your whole thread here seems to say that you want to cut down your encoding time (12 hours is ridiculous, considering i get the same quality in about 2 or 3 hours tops), and the best way to cut down encoding time is to do less passes. I have found 1+2 to be the best bet for ME. I guess for YOU, you need those extra 2 passes. Such is life, to each his own right? I think the whole problem dragongodz and sir didymus had with you is that you totally dismissed there comments out of hand, Im guessing because there english isnt the greatest so they couldnt convey to you their exact meaning. Do as many passes as you like.. It doesnt effect ME in any way. I just dont like the implication you made at the very beginning that to achieve good quality at all you have to do 5+ passes.

EDIT: And in my opinion comparing yourself to that heathen Bush isnt helping anything. LOL

[bugmenot]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Naw Im not nasty at all... I think its just your smug attitude that rubs me the wrong way maybe.
You say you're not nasty and then say I have a smug attitude... I apologize for my attitude if it bothers you, but when people give me these stories about green men or 21 passes, it rubs ME the wrong way. It's as faulty as your reasoning that I must have a lot of time since I would actually have to sit at my computer while DVD-rebuilder does my 1+5 passes. As you say, to each his own, and so they should've just told me that they think 3, 4 passes would suffice and left it at that.


EDIT: And in my opinion comparing yourself to that heathen Bush isnt helping anything. LOL
Yeah, it was a joke, you know, as opposed to your nastiness. Lighten up. Have a good weekend.

p.s. It's "their", not "there". Dragon- and Didymus write in English just fine IMO. In any case, continue the nastiness if you wish but I'm stopping here for the sake of the board.

[jdobbs]

Ok -- here was the first post:
The encoding process alone took about 12 hours. I often read encoding times of about 6 hours max even with 6 passes (I know it depends on setup of course). This PC is not that slow so I was wondering if it was the AVS setting that slowed it down, or something else. Please advise.
I took that to mean you thought it was taking too long. But, in considering the fact that you are doing 6 passes I would say it isn't that bad. My Athlon 3200 usually takes about 2-3 hours (depending upon the length, complexity, etc.) to do a movie and I normally do 2 passes (3 if it's a long one).

As for whether 6 passes is too many. Yes, I think so. But that is a personal decision that is completely up to whomever is doing the encode. It's none of my business if you decide to do 2 passes or 2,000 passes... my intention isn't to judge only to advise.

My advice is to never do more than 4 passes because I don't think the difference is distinguishable by any means of measure. But if you think you might get some sliver of improvement in doing 2 more -- then more power to you.

As for Bush... I'll hold my opinion. Americans seem to either love him or hate him... so I'd have to decide whether I want to offend offend 51% of the US population or 48%...

[p200002]

I know we shouldn't discuss politics here. But jdobbs, let's do this math,

51% american love Bush
vs.
48% american + ?% rest of the world dislike him

[Indigo]

Hmm...when you are talking about passes, I assume you mean that which you set in the RB CCE settings. Default is 2. Does that mean a total of 3 if you count the standard vaf passing?

[jdobbs]

No. The VAF pass is a pass. It's just a fact that virtually all of the benefit of multiple passes for VBR allocation is realized in the second time through. That's the reason that almost all other encoders only do 2.

[candsh]

I have a registered version of CCE Basic and therefore have no choice as to number of passes (no watermarks either) and an Athlon XP 3200+ (no overclocking) in a RAID-0 Concfig. Average time from start to ready to burn, about 2-1/2 hrs. The picture quality is fantastic.
My daughter was over the other night and I put on "The Stepford Wives" and played thru a Pioneer DV-C36 progressive scan DVD player on a Pioneer 53" HD TV. I have kind of taken for granted the quality I get from my set-up but she was commenting all through the movie about the things she could see that she couldn't see on her 32" TV at home with the original disk playing. I got a little too close to the screen and Nicole Kidman reached out and tried to grab me.
My point is, it does it fast, it does it good and I actually have control of few things in the process. Basically what I want to process and how much space to steal from extras. By the way I have started burning with Stomps RecordNow Max for the last week or so and the clarity of the movie is better than Nero that I used for years. Pioneer A06 Burner.
I do this with what most of you would consider minimal equipment so what are we arguing about. You can't say I am wrong because I have no choices and I can't say you are wrong because you do. But, I can say lets cut out the crap and get this program out of Beta and then start on the tweaks.

[jdobbs]

Nicole Kidman reaching out and grabbing you? I'll catch you guys later. I'm headed down to get me a Pioneer DV-C36 and a Pioneer HD 53" TV. :D

[lamster]

Originally posted by candsh
By the way I have started burning with Stomps RecordNow Max for the last week or so and the clarity of the movie is better than Nero that I used for years.
I don't see how this could be possible. We're talking digital data here.

[candsh]

I really don't understand it myself. I am not knocking Nero as I was a big fan for years and will probably have to go back to it when my A08 gets here. I don't think RecordNow Max will burn dual layer and maybe not the 8X - 16X speeds. Real shame you can't have both on the same computer. Only been using RN max about a week but really looks sharper. Oh Well, both are very good