Did 0.67 solve the stutter problem?

[eriksen76]

Anyone still experiencing stutter on backups?

I read that 0.67 might have solved the problems

/Julius

[TheSeeker]

There was code put in place to enforce compliance with std buffer specifications. According to some of Sir Didymus's findings the problems with std buffer overflows arent completely fixed but they are much better. And besides no one knows if the std buffer overflows were the cause of the stuttering, its just a theory. So to answer your question... Possibly, many of the issues with stuttering may be gone. And they may not. Maybe everyone that experiences stuttering should record their info here so we can track the problem and see if it still exists to the extent that it did before.

[brikin]

I hope I am not jumping the gun but I have had very slight stutter problems with Star Wars A New Hope. Maybe two or three in the movie total. When I rebuilt the DVD with .67 I do not get any of the stutters anymore. I have only tested this with one DVD so I can not say that it fixed all the stutter problems but it did fix mine for one DVD. My problem DVD player is a Pansonic by the way.

[Toranaga]

I would certainly be willing to donate for using Rebuilder, but NOT before the stuttering is completely solved.

[jdobbs]

So what you are saying is that you would donate to the development (which is what the donations support) -- but only after the development is done?

Hmmm...

[Toranaga]

Well I guess what I actually meant is that I would BUY the program if it was working properly. I will not buy or support a program that is, right now, useless to me.

Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with the program so far, and I know it works fine for most people, but if the stuttering is solved, then I will buy or donate or whatever you want to call it.

[Sir Didymus]

Toranaga,

Your comments are useless, given in the wrong terms, and in the wrong place. I have been very surprised, disappointed and upset on reading them.

Just for your proper understanding, you should consider that it is impossible, for now, to buy the program, due to the initiative of Jdobbs is based on his kind availability of providing it as a freeware, sacrificing for this an huge amount of time and patience.

The support to the development is not mandatory and should be given only on the basis of some willingness to provide some minimal, positive, contributions.

Maybe you are disappointed, but many, many other people (I would say tousand people, judging from the number of dowloads) are very happy and satisfied of DVD-RB. AS IT IS. I am among them.

My pushing on the STD buffer overflows is intended in the totally wrong manner from people, like you, wanting to have for free a program which is perfect. I would say this is just an exercise of stupidity.

The relationship of these overflows (that are an infringment of theoric rules) with the observed stutters ARE NO DEMONSTRATED. The feeling of many people is that there is no relationship at all. I have just the hope it could be benefical.

If DVD-RB in its actual form and release is useless to you, this is a fortune. I am afraid to say this, but giving pearls (for free) to poor people is sometimes a very very bad idea.

SD

[brikin]

JDobbs + Sir Didymus

Sir Didymus posted
The relationship of these overflows (that are an infringment of theoric rules) with the observed stutters ARE NO DEMONSTRATED. The feeling of many people is that there is no relationship at all. I have just the hope it could be benefical.


I just wanted to say that the first DVD I tested with .67 had no stutters on my problem DVD player (the damn Panasonic). This is the first DVD I have done with DVD Rebuilder that has had no stutters on this player. So it seems like maybe these overflows do effect some players and all your hard work is not a waste of time. Thanks for all the hard work guys.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally posted by brikin
JDobbs + Sir Didymus

Sir Didymus posted
The relationship of these overflows (that are an infringment of theoric rules) with the observed stutters ARE NO DEMONSTRATED. The feeling of many people is that there is no relationship at all. I have just the hope it could be benefical.


I just wanted to say that the first DVD I tested with .67 had no stutters on my problem DVD player (the damn Panasonic). This is the first DVD I have done with DVD Rebuilder that has had no stutters on this player. So it seems like maybe these overflows do effect some players and all your hard work is not a waste of time. Thanks for all the hard work guys.

Brikin,
thanks a lot for your test. I didn't miss it when you posted before. It's a very good news. If your findings are supported by other kind people, I will drink some beers with you wherever you want :)

Edit: of course Jdobbs is invited...

[jdobbs]

Good. I'm very grateful to Sir Didymus. The fact is that tools to test for compliance are few, far between, and (usually) expensive. So you do what you believe is sufficient testing using whatever methods you have, and go on to the next problem. Sir Didymus has worked hard at creating some third party testing mechanisms to verify this and other potential problem areas -- I'm crossing my fingers that this (the dropouts) gets squished.

[dragongodz]

I have been very surprised, disappointed and upset on reading them.
wait until you sit on this side of the desk, hard to be surprised anymore. some peoples attitude to free programs and helping, whether through testing/feedback or financial, is amazing. the sad thing is its gotten more of a "i want" situation the more things have grown.

I am afraid to say this, but giving pearls (for free) to poor people is sometimes a very very bad idea.
more of an uncut diamond i would say. jdobbs is slowly cutting it in to shape so in the end it will be something marvelous to behold. :D

[luphy]

I've read plenty of postings by others in the recent past where they say they'll donate once a certain issue was resolved or certain features implemented.

No one took any issue to those statements before, so why is it such an issue now I wonder?

If a person says they'll donate once something is fixed or resolved or implemented....isn't that better than someone not donating at all? That is how most people approach most software anyways.

Granted, this is a beta software and is being developed by one very hardworking person - and donations are meant to encourage further development. But I'm sure jdobbs does not expect donations from everyone who uses his software and I'm sure he does not expect everyone to view the donations as a sort of encouragement the way he does.

Why don't you just make the whole software shareware so you don't have to deal with all these issues? Of course if it were shareware, you'd have far less of a testing base, and probably more demanding paying customers. If it continues to be freeware, you'll have more of a testing base, and have the users who will never donate. Personal preference.

[p200002]

I always donate to show my support to "good" freeware, such as dvd-rb, dvd decrypter.

To brikin: 0.65 had already solved SW4/5/6 shutter issue. I have yet encountered it.

[Sir Didymus]

@Luphy.

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I've read plenty of postings by others in the recent past where they say they'll donate once a certain issue was resolved or certain features implemented.
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The problem is exactely this little word ONCE: it's just a declaration (not asked and unuseful) of denying the willingness of giving support FOR the solution of some issues.

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No one took any issue to those statements before, so why is it such an issue now I wonder?
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Maybe it is because other people, much more relaxed and intelligent than myself preferred not to start flames or discussions on non technical arguments (as it should be done on this thread, and in general on this forum). Due also to my limited fluency in English, I will act in a more intelligent way in the future: I will give no other comments anymore on this subject.

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If a person says they'll donate once something is fixed or resolved or implemented....isn't that better than someone not donating at all? That is how most people approach most software anyways.
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I don't know it is better or not, the result is the same: no donations at the time the declaration is given. And it sound very much as a stupid manner to try to force or to push the author doing some special efforts for solving some issue. Don't know also if it is the way most people approach most software today, but it seems to me it is a very bad approach, especially for a freeware.

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Granted, this is a beta software and is being developed by one very hardworking person - and donations are meant to encourage further development. But I'm sure jdobbs does not expect donations from everyone who uses his software and I'm sure he does not expect everyone to view the donations as a sort of encouragement the way he does.
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Don't know what Jdobbs have in mind on the subject, and I don't want to know this. What I say is that just declaring not to will to donate "until" something happens is equivalent to not donate at the moment at all. This declaration is unwanted, unuseful and it sound stupid to me.

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Why don't you just make the whole software shareware so you don't have to deal with all these issues? Of course if it were shareware, you'd have far less of a testing base, and probably more demanding paying customers. If it continues to be freeware, you'll have more of a testing base, and have the users who will never donate. Personal preference.
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It's a decision of the software author.

SD

[Rockas]

I usually don't spend my time with things like this but here it goes:

I'm running a site dedicated to DVD Rebuilder on the last 6 months.

I've made the first Skin for DVD Rebuilder.

I've compiled one installation version for DVD Rebuilder (that I have to update... by the way :))

I got an help system files almost done (It should be done already but I spent too much time on getting DK skin's available to everyone) and it is being translated to at least two other languages.

What do I mean with this? I just want to say that on the past 6 months I've dedicated something like 2-4 hours almost every day.
(Just for doing little thins... now... imagine making a program like Rebuilder)

What I ask in return? nothing at all... not even donations (the link on my site is for jdobb's account)

...well I'd like to ask for one simple thing

- If you don't want to donate... don't... but don't say you'll donate after the program does this or does that, 'cause if you don't donate until that, why will I believe that you'll donate after?

Hopefully jdobbs is a greater man and great men have don't seem to read small letters... they're too far away.

keep it UP

ps. this is Christ's fault... he asked too much - love the next like you love yourself.... he should have asked people just to respect each other - it's a smaller goal but after 2000 years, maybe we could be near of getting it.

[brikin]

Originally posted by p200002

To brikin: 0.65 had already solved SW4/5/6 shutter issue. I have yet encountered it. [/B]

I have tested these movies with every build. .65 did not fix the stutter problem for me with these movies. .67 did.

[dannyv]

Originally posted by Toranaga
I would certainly be willing to donate for using Rebuilder, but NOT before the stuttering is completely solved.

but if the stuttering is solved, then I will buy or donate or whatever you want to call it.


I use dvd shrink a lot more then dvd-rebuilder for my final projects just for the fact that I do have minor problems with rebuilder (that I do report). I just want to say that I still donated and will donate again and not because the program is perfect but because I beleive in the developer and want to see this program become perfect. I am not a programmer or a great beta tester so my donation lets me play a small part in its development.

Torangaga,

If the above statement is your true feeling then I suggest you do your shopping at radio shack or compusa and stay out of the development forums.

jdobbs,

Another donation is on its way and no need to add me to the e-mail list I'm already on it.

[candsh]

I was very excited about a "possibility" in development and was able to create only one successful back up and that was using Rejig, followed by failure after failure but, I donated anyway. When jdobbs suggested CCE Basic, I purchased it but still no joy and I am not qualified to even suggest what the cause of the problems might be. Then the program started coming together and the success rate started to climb. I did it just the way jdobbs wanted it done.

Most of the problems I read about here seem to be the result of trying to remove things ahead of the RB process and create conjecture and doubt about what the problems are and what created them. I think the program would even be further along if all would just do it right and follow instructions and get this thing out of the BETA stage and then start the experiments. I believe that jdobbs is going to be there to fix things even after we are in the the 1st release etc.

CCE basic cost me 59.00 and I plan to continue donating until my donations reach or exceed that amount since it is DVD-RB that makes it all work and is as valuable to me as CCE itself. After we are out of BETA then is the time to experiment to make this an even better program.

You might not want to buy a lot of expensive media but, while we are testing, everyone can afford a few, or even one quality RW disk. You can rewrite them 1000 times.

I am not writing this to offend anyone, but it does seem that a little testiness is creeping in on occasion and really needs to stop so that we can all work together and get DVD-RB to the place we all want it to be.

Don't know about you but I am having a lot of fun

[rte5]

@Sir Didymus, he didn't say he wanted it for free, he said he wanted to pay for it, but in its current stuttering state, it's useless to him. Somehow I doubt your comments are incentives for people to donate any money, but rather a self fulfilling prophecy.

If the project is useless to him, and it's unclear if or when the stuttering problem will be fixed then why would he donate to it? Maybe we should selflessly donate to the ham sandwich project too, even when it serves no use to any of us, perhaps you can explain it to me without calling me a Communist, but I'm not going to donate to the - in my opinion - misdirected "Ham Sandwich Project", because I don't see the point, and I can't afford to donate to every useless-to-me project that comes along.

Ok, I'm being sarcastic there, but in a way, Rebuilder is of little use to me, since it doesn't retain Closed Captions, I almost never need to use it. I'm probably going to donate since I use it 2% of the time, but I want CC support, and I don't see support for CC coming any time soon, so donating is not a priority at the moment.

If donations are required for new features, fine, but someone has to create a demand for new features, and what better way than asking? Or even telling... In much the same way that jdobbs tells us to donate, and doesn't work on the project when we don't.

Otherwise, people wouldn't have much incentive to donate if features are those which no-one wants. Like skins. Just kidding... Yes, I'm sorry to offend all the hard work that's gone into skins. I have worked on things that others have not appreciated, too. So I understand.

But if you have a DVD player that stutters on DVDRebuilds, or want to retain CC, then there is a level of frustration of having to test and test and test. And some wasted DVDs. Sadly, you will have people who give up. And less donations. I know this first hand since I have a Norcent DP 313 that stutters, and want CC retention, and converting CC to subtitles is not exciting. Though, stuttering has been mostly removed.

Now, in closing, it's human nature to forget to donate. We could sit around and hypocritically scald them for it, and talk down to them, or we could periodically run pledge drives like they do with public television. I think the latter will get more donations.

@Rockas, Quote: If you don't want to donate... don't... but don't say you'll donate after the program does this or does that, 'cause if you don't donate until that, why will I believe that you'll donate after?

And why should we believe that the program will ever do "this or that", since the way people act in here, we can't ask for new features, or critique jdobbs without getting attacked and accused of wanting something for free.

[dragongodz]

rte5 - that is the biggest pile of B.S. of a post i have seen for some time. well done. :devil:

If the project is useless to him, and it's unclear if or when the stuttering problem will be fixed then why would he donate to it? Maybe we should selflessly donate to the ham sandwich project too, even when it serves no use to any of us, perhaps you can explain it to me without calling me a Communist, but I'm not going to donate to the - in my opinion - misdirected "Ham Sandwich Project", because I don't see the point, and I can't afford to donate to every useless-to-me project that comes along.
the point is nobody is interested in knowing he isnt donating and the only reason to post such B.S. is to try and force jdobbs to do what he wants done.

If donations are required for new features,
In much the same way that jdobbs tells us to donate, and doesn't work on the project when we don't.
and where has jdobbs said you MUST donate for new features and that he wont work on it if people dont donate ?

But if you have a DVD player that stutters on DVDRebuilds, or want to retain CC, then there is a level of frustration of having to test and test and test
ah so you want jdobbs to work his guts out(which he is doing) trying to fix a problem thats only relevant for a minority of people but dont want to put in the hard yards yourself to address the issue. i guess jdobbs should magically make all problems go away without any need for feedback to track it. :sly:

it's human nature to forget to donate
no its unfortunatly human nature to want something for nothing. most of us are not interested in hearing from these people.

And why should we believe that the program will ever do "this or that", since the way people act in here, we can't ask for new features, or critique jdobbs without getting attacked and accused of wanting something for free.
and what a great ending. new features have been asked of jdobbs before and bugs have been and still are being pointed out. the difference is some people are giving information to try and track and fix these bugs. others who feel they cant or dont have the time or patience are donating to encourage jdobbs. coming here and saying "i wont donate until this is done" is not needed or welcomed.

[NobbyNobbs]

Seems like it is time for this link again: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=59607

[dannyv]

Originally posted by rte5

If the project is useless to him, and it's unclear if or when the stuttering problem will be fixed then why would he donate to it? Maybe we should selflessly donate to the ham sandwich project too, even when it serves no use to any of us, perhaps you can explain it to me without calling me a Communist, but I'm not going to donate to the - in my opinion - misdirected "Ham Sandwich Project", because I don't see the point, and I can't afford to donate to every useless-to-me project that comes along.

Ok, I'm being sarcastic there, but in a way, Rebuilder is of little use to me, since it doesn't retain Closed Captions, I almost never need to use it. I'm probably going to donate since I use it 2% of the time, but I want CC support, and I don't see support for CC coming any time soon, so donating is not a priority at the moment.


@dragongodz

You took the words right out of my mouth. very nicely put.

@rte5

That's a pretty harsh analogy and if your using it 2% of the time you obiviously find some use for it. You seem to have missed the entire point of donating. First of all donating is not required and its to assist in the advance of its development. Your issues with the software have been bought up in the forums and will be addressed in time. CC or other features are not a priority at the moment until the bugs such as studdering are fixed. If you only throughly read the forums you would see that these issues and concerns have been discussed and jdobbs is hard at work to fix them. I don't expect him to dedicate 24 hours a day and not receive help in the way of beta testing or programming and if someone can't do eather then I feel they should donate. Developing a program is not free. The cost of equipment, media, electric to run the equipment all cost money. In fact in my opinion just the fact that he puts so much time into this project is costly in itself. This is time that he could spend with family and friend or just rest. The sentiment here is if you don't want to donate then don't but don't bitch about it because no one wants to here it.

And now that this thread has gone completely south lets eather get back on topic or close the thread.
The topic was

Did 0.67 solve the stutter problem?
Anyone still experiencing stutter on backups?

I read that 0.67 might have solved the problems

[Morbo]

Originally posted by brikin
I have tested these movies with every build. .65 did not fix the stutter problem for me with these movies. .67 did.

Tried those as well,and a few others that are tricky multi-angles with no faults found.

Cheers!

[rte5]

@dragongodz
Q: "the point is nobody is interested in knowing he isnt donating and the only reason to post such B.S. is to try and force jdobbs to do what he wants done."

I don't know why someone would want donations but be uninterested in knowing how to get more of them. I realize comparing rebuilder to a ham sandwich program is a bit inflammatory and I'm sorry for that. The point was that if a project is not used by a person, then that person has no obligation to donate. Can we agree on that?

If someone uses a project, then they should donate to it, especially if they find it of value or benefit. But if someone doesn't use rebuilder, or finds it of no value or benefit because backups are not working or inadequate, then those people are debating on donating. If the donation will go towards improving compatibility of compliance, maybe they would be more inclined to.

Those individuals simply need reassurance that their concerns will be seriously considered. They don't need to be attacked. If anything, they are doing a favor to jdobbs by testing his software and potentially reporting bugs or potentially donating.

In the end, jdobbs may decide stuttering, Closed Caption retention, or whatever, is not worth implementing, and Toranaga may not ever donate. So what? According to Toranaga, he doesn't even use the program. Do we need to be shocked and appalled by it, and go on and on about how bad of a person he is, and how thousands of people love rebuilder? Can't we just tell him "I'm working/not working on it." or even "Donate, then I'll work on it." Or whatever. End of story.

Q: "where has jdobbs said you MUST donate for new features and that he wont work on it if people dont donate?"

Sorry if I worded that wrong. As I remember, jdobbs said that if people donate more, he would work on the project more, and that bugs would be solved quicker.. Somewhere on the forum? And I don't disagree with him.

Q: "its unfortunatly human nature to want something for nothing. most of us are not interested in hearing from these people."

Maybe it is, but I don't know what that has to do with Toranaga?

[TheSeeker]

I think the whole thing that started this little mini argument is semantics. Toranga just worded his reply quite badly, and rte5 only made it worse by making some ridiculous comments (which he later took back) I have no issue with people you dont want to donate. But a good point is brought up.. DOnt sit there and say well im not going to donate till you do this and this and this. Just say... Man I cant wait until this feature is implemented or that bug is fixed. That would have been the proper way to go about it. I do see a bit of a problem though. If no one donated until the program worked nearly flawlessly there would be alot less good freeware out there like dvd rb and decrypter and etc... I feel it isnt out of the question to donate to software that shows ALOT of potential and that seems to be under constant development and the author listens to the testers as jdobbs does. Even if that software isnt currently valuable to you. I think we can all pretty much agree that barring a major catastrophe of some kind that jdobbs WILL get all the kinks out and we WILL see a full release and it will be awesome.

[johnnyquid]

It is just my guess but (being a occassional software developer myself) that Jdobbs might just see the creation of the software like creating a work of art. If this is true then merely creating something brings satisfaction by itself. Though like for an artist another test of success is if somebody will fund you or help you out with the expenses. If you appreciate the artist or his work consider donating. In any event do not think you can influence the way they create much one way or another :)

[caprioles9000]

Originally posted by Morbo
Tried those as well,and a few others that are tricky multi-angles with no faults found.

Cheers!

Can anyone with a pioneer dvd player confirm ? I re-worked a dvd that i had created with 0.66 ...again with 0.67...the dropouts were still there! I will try and see if i will get the drops when i rework an original dvd and see if the dropouts still remain!

Greetings
Caprioles9000

[candsh]

I have a Pioneer DVD (DV-C36) player and have never esperienced any audio or video drop-out on any of the back-ups I have made (many). I burn with a pioneer A06 with Ritek G04 (after first testing on a DVD +RW ) with both NERO in the past and now RecordNow Max, Watch the movie on a 53" Pioneer TV.

If you will let me know what movie you are having a problem with I would be glad to test it. By the way my encoder is CCE Basic and I only have NTSC available. Can't help you if you are having problems with PAL

[Toranaga]

Originally posted by caprioles9000
Can anyone with a pioneer dvd player confirm ? I re-worked a dvd that i had created with 0.66 ...again with 0.67...the dropouts were still there! I will try and see if i will get the drops when i rework an original dvd and see if the dropouts still remain!

Greetings
Caprioles9000

I ran a DS9 disc through 0.67 and all thought theres is still a very slight stutter in the intro it is almost gone in comparrison to previous versions.

[caprioles9000]

I took the original iso of twister that i had on my HDD and reworked it with 0.67 ...alas ...the audio drops are still there ....it was one or two less audio drops than before...so there definetly was improvement.....but still have them on my pioneer 656a ....hmmmzz...i wonder if i we were able to choose another output path than the workign path ..maybe it might help .....but then again i am guessing that its not a HDD problem.......i mean i have a raid WD 10000rpm setup here where the output file is being worked at .,..so couldnt be that the hdd is creating a problem....but just a thought :) ...anyways ...its getting better and better ....Wicked work Jdobbs....keep it up .....i am sure that in the end this will be the ultimate tool :)