Next milestone features & donations

[len0x]

As can be found here:


The philosophy:
http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/jason-rohrer/freeDistribution.html

An example:
http://mute-net.sourceforge.net/index.shtml


I'm going to try out this approach on a small set of features. Basically I'll pick up some feature requests then set a donation target - once donations level is reached, those features will be implemented and released. Its not going to be a version milestone as in example above, but rather feature-based mailestone. This means that versions of AutoGK will still be out with bugfixes (and quality tuning we're doing now with custom matrixes etc.)

So far I have a couple of useful features to throw in:
- DTS support (both muxing and transcoding)
- support for external text subs to be burnt in to AVI

Any other small requests?

[Sharktooth]

MP4 container support.

[len0x]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
MP4 container support.

rather small request indeed :)

[Sharktooth]

I was in a hurry so maybe i should be more specific:
MP4 container output
MPEG-4 AAC encoding support
Anamorphic encoding with AR signaling option (Xvid only)

[len0x]

Only last option can be put into somewhat immediate plans (not now, but in the near future). The rest would mean quite a bit of work and will have high donate target which can slow thing considerably because not that many ppl would want that probably.

Anyway for now I'm looking for someting rather small in to test if the system would really work. Another thing to throw in would be:
- check for updates on startup
(Now I have three items).

[Sharktooth]

Xvid 1.1 VBV and B-VHQ support?

[len0x]

That will happen anyway when it gets released.

[CeeJay.dk]

Ability to choose other filters than RemoveGrain (as a hidden option)

I've been following the Custom matrix comparison going on in the Xvid section and read about other interesting filter there and elsewhere in the forum and I'd like to try other combinations for some of my tricky sources.

I have 1 DVD now that are quite hard to get a good encode of.
It has added noise into the original content to make it look "underground" .. the effect works well with the content but it also gives it a VERY low compresibility rating when I try AutoGK on it.
The result is a much lower quality than I'm used to because every pixel is in constant and random motion ude to al the noise.

I'd like to try a more aggresive noisefilter and a temporalnoisefilter/smoother and sharpen the endresult with Didée's new LimitedSharpen()


Other than that .. Ogg Vorbis support (and AAC but Sharktooth beat me to suggesting it).
MP3 is no longer the best audiocodec and I'd like to save some bits for audio so I can use more on video.
I don't have a hardwareplayer and if I ever get more serious about multimediacenters, I'll build a HTPC instead.
Besides hardwareplayer would never get support for vorbis if no one used it for their encodes (a chicken and the egg-problem).

MKV would be nice too (I can just convert the avi's produced by AutoGK though)

[jsquare]

- Select output by max. bitrate(Video+Audio).
- One pass encode based on size or bitrate.
- OGM support.
- Mono Audio and Lower CBR bitrates, for PocketPC encodes.
- Recovery option.
- Saving and Editing Job queue.
- Option to create different profiles, ex. one for PocketPC with max. total bitrate of 256k, audio at 32k Mono and max width of 320.

Hope is not too much to ask!

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by jsquare

- Option to create different profiles, ex. one for PocketPC with max. total bitrate of 256k, audio at 32k Mono and max width of 320.

nice one - that is really a good request!!

[len0x]

About different codecs/containers, guys. You have to realize that it's gonna be rated pretty high. Imagine I put 1000$ as target sum for MKV/OGM support (with correspondig audio codecs). At current donate rate it would take more that half a year to reach that. And as I was not planning to make several milestones at the same time - this would mean that for half a year there will be no any other feature updates to AutoGK? Do you really want that? Of course I can do separate milestones at the same time, so that ppl can choose which feature they are donating for. But I don't think we can reach the target at all then for some of the features (how many ppl of those donated already would want MKV/OGM/MP4 support in there?).

About filters. There will be no official support for multiple filters, but when I encorporate all hidden options into one config file then I can introduce more flexibility of what can be added to avs scripts (but this will a standalone milestone which might also include a GUI for editiding that file).

[Tuning]

You have to realize that it's gonna be rated pretty high. Imagine I put 1000$ as target sum for MKV/OGM support (with correspondig audio codecs). At current donate rate it would take more that half a year to reach that.

Shall I visit some more sponsers on your site ? :devil: :D :D :D


PS : I think you will be getting more than 1000+ from your site each month. ;) :D :rolleyes:

[thop]

I have mixed feelings about this :( I fear that soon AGKnot will be bloated with lots of stuff just because someone paid for it (even though nobody else wants or needs it). Fair enough, and you certainly deserve the money but i hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

[len0x]

Originally posted by thop
I fear that soon AGKnot will be bloated with lots of stuff just because someone paid for it (even though nobody else wants or needs it).

Believe me - this should be the least of your problems.

P.S. Atm I'm evaluating some ways of keeping the project alive (i.e. adware for instance).

[len0x]

Anyway - I'm gonna try these three features first and see how far we can go:
- support for DTS
- support for external text subs file
- version check at startup

Target will be... 200$ :)

[bourtzovlakas]

If/When this target is reached,will the new version be available, right away,to all users or just the contributors?

[len0x]

First, when target is reached then I'll start doing the features (they won't be ready by then obviously).

Second, they may not be released in one version as I prefer to get them out for testing as soon as they are ready.

Third, yes - they will be available to everyone.

P.S. I'll anounce the start of first milestone AutoGK's home page.

[Darksoul71]

Hi len0x,

1st let me say that I fully respect the work you´ve put into GKnot and AutoGK. It is really demanding to support such tools with those constantly changing codecs and filters. Even without implementing new features you are kept quite busy keeping AutoGK / GKnot compatible with all codec versions.

Please forgive me that I didn´t take the time to read the philosophy link in depth. The following is solely my limited personal opinion.


Imagine I put 1000$ as target sum for MKV/OGM support (with correspondig audio codecs).
At current donate rate it would take more that half a year to reach that.

Well, now imagine:
You achieve your milestones before you have reached your "target sum".
Then you decide to release AutoGK as shareware... dooooohhhh !!!!!

As a freeware developer myself I always disliked freeware projects turning to "payware". There are several projects such as myHTPC or Girder going that route. But hey, it´s your source code. Do what you want. :D

Forget about your idea:
1) Define milestone
2) Define donation level bound to milestone
3) donation level reached
4) implement milestone

It should rather be:
1) Define milestone
2) Define the amout of $$$ you personally want to earn for the work you have to put into AutoGK to reach the milestone.
3) Implement milestone
4) Offer AutoGK as shareware
5) Hope that you get the money defined under 2)

Developing freeware is always the same. Either you´re convinced enough to do it at no charge or you will struggle sometimes.
After finishing my studies I´ve actually frozen my released versions and just developed new versions for myself without any further
documentation. I have the strong opinion that even though every freeware developer has the right to charge the users for his hard work, he might be better of quiting the development and start a commercial project when he needs money for motivation or external circumstances require him to earn money.

We all need to make a living. So asking money for your work is very understandable but do some math. Use a really low hourly wage. May be something like 5-10 U$ / €. Multiply this with the hours you´ve spent the last four weeks for developing and normally you´ll get a real big amount of money you "earn" per month. So if money is your primary driver, start making money with your work.

Just my 2 c,
-D$

[len0x]

Originally posted by Darksoul71
It should rather be:
1) Define milestone
2) Define the amout of $$$ you personally want to earn for the work you have to put into AutoGK to reach the milestone.
3) Implement milestone
4) Offer AutoGK as shareware
5) Hope that you get the money defined under 2)


I see a flaw: (5) might not happen :) I have no intentions to just hope. And shareware is the worst possible way of distributing your program - you spend lots of time on crippling it if you don't want it to be easy crackable (I know I can be obsessed about it personally)... Not worth it. I'd rather make it adware.

Originally posted by Darksoul71
Developing freeware is always the same. Either you´re convinced enough to do it at no charge or you will struggle sometimes.
After finishing my studies I´ve actually frozen my released versions and just developed new versions for myself without any further
documentation. I have the strong opinion that even though every freeware developer has the right to charge the users for his hard work, he might be better of quiting the development and start a commercial project when he needs money for motivation or external circumstances require him to earn money.


True, but I have niether time nor motivation to start commercial project. The only thing I want to make sure that what I'm doing is no longer completely free for me (but still available for everyone) - I do not expect ppl starting donating 10 times as much as now and therefore having lots of work to do. This will be a slow progress from one feature to another where every party knows exactly what to expect.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm with Sharktooth,

MP4 container support please... even if the finished file includes MP3 audio!


Cheers

[stax76]

in the past I stumbled across that concept 2 times and always thought it's a good idea. I'm curious if it works for AutoGK and if it becomes popular.

[len0x]

we all are :)

[len0x]

OK, M1 milestone is officially started. Let's see where it takes us.

[jeeproject]

I think that you should have a public list of everyone that contributes to these milestones.

[len0x]

I don't think everyone would want that...

[Bardock]

For Milestone M2, please: custom config file for advanced codec options like GMC, Qpel, Adaptive quantization, packed bitstream, max Bframes, VHQ... etc. Or some profiles like slow, standar, fast.

[len0x]

Let me think... no :)
Seriously, codec options will never be customisable in AutoGK as they interfere with its resizing algorithm.

[mrdutchie]

Would like to see a Save/Load Queue list, in case PC shutsdown caused no power.. since I have a lot of items in the queue everytime, I hate it to redo it everytime.

[len0x]

I'm a bit suprised seeing results of a survey on my website. AVI/DV feature is first as expected, but lots of ppl supporting other containers which just ain't right (i put that option just to test the opinion as still don't believe that it should be done before all others in a survey). On the other hand persistent queue don't seem to be doing well (may be I should have described it differently).

[kio]

i've just made donation for this project, for the second time :)

I love this software cause it's the only one which give me access to make my dvdrip movies and big thanks to you for that.

I only want you to keep your graphical interface software accessible to blind users, using JAWS (Job Access With Speech). The rest is nice if you keep that in mind :)

regards

[len0x]

Originally posted by kio
I only want you to keep your graphical interface software accessible to blind users, using JAWS (Job Access With Speech).

So now AutoGK is compliant for JAWS you might say? What prevents a software from being compliant, I wonder? (just so I know, because I'm not familiar with the system).

[Sharktooth]

uhm... blind users? i dont think that a blind user is able to WATCH a movie...

[kio]

Hello,

For keeping an accessible graphical interface users with JAWS, there are not special things to do. Everytime you modify your software interface, i have to check.

However, it's good if we have many hotkeys linked to important functions of autogk.

Actually, the interface is aproximatively good. Except we cannot access advanced options, start encode, and add to queue job with tab key. I need to emulate mouse for this kind of operation. Would by great if you may fixe that :)

Btw, blind people cannot watch movies (with their eyes), indeed. But like other humans, they have ears, and can understand most of what happend in a movy. The sound is very useful for blind users. And... it's not because they are blind they cannot rip DVD for themselves or friends anyway.

I think you would be surprised if you knew some of them play ps2 and other game consoles just with the sound :)

[len0x]

Originally posted by kio
Except we cannot access advanced options, start encode, and add to queue job with tab key. I need to emulate mouse for this kind of operation.

There are already shortcuts for all such operations - see shortcuts.txt in the AutoGK folder.

[kio]

very nice job. i've just seen them and, nothing to say except weldone ! :D

[quake74]

Dear len0x, let me say again, great job on AutoGK. As for the people asking for MKV/OGM support, I must admit I'm one of them :o The problem for me is that there is no tool to automatically produce a OGM/MKV file with as many audio tracks as I want and as many subtitles as I want. The closest one is dvdtoogm, but it doesn't work with MKV and they stopped developing it. GordianKnot only deals with 2 audio tracks and one (1) subtitle track. Dvdtomkv looks really good, but as of now it's vaporware (the new version I mean, not the old one). In my ignorance I thought that adding different containers wouldn't be so hard: add support for oggenc, then take the sum of the file sizes of audio and subtitles, use the difference to set the video bitrate, and then use avimux and/or mmg to mux into ogm/mkv. But this was before you said that that milestone would be worth more or less 2000$... Just giving you reasons. In the end it's YOUR fault, AutoGK makes it seems too easy ;)

[len0x]

Originally posted by quake74
The problem for me is that there is no tool to automatically produce a OGM/MKV file with as many audio tracks as I want and as many subtitles as I want.

You see - support for another container doesn't automatically mean support for all the features of it. Current version of GUI is pretty much fixed for 2 audio/subs streams, so even with another container support you won't be able to deal with as many audio tracks as you want. I have no desire of writing a new GUI...

Anyway container support is somewhat only imaginary at the moment.

[Hermann]

I've seen your proposal to develope a set of feautures after a monetary target is reached (Milestone). This is a good idea because the software remain free (so people continue to interest in it) and people are incentivated to donate but aren't obliged to pay.


Now I've made my first donation (my name: Armando) to this project but there is something I want to say about AutoGK and its license.

I see you don't want to turn AutoGK into Commercial or Shareware software and this is very good. So I don't see reasons for that AutoGK shouldn't turn into Opensource license. I think that Opensource could improve your software by creating a community of developers and power users but, if you prefer to work alone, anyway you can continue to do so. There a lot of new features to embed in AutoGK and new technlogies and standards arrives continuously and it's very difficult to be updated so a Opensource community can help. Opensource could make bug search more easy and people could propose improvement directly looking into source-code. Moreover releasing source-code could go in the way to grant the legitimate request of donors to see exactly for what they are donating for.
Don't worry about less donations. Development should go forward only if Development Milestone are reached so there is nothing different from now except that people prefer to donate for Opensource software. So I think you will have more money from AutoGK. I've already donated and I think I will re-donate but surely the amount of my donation will be higher when I'll be able to see the code. I see many people are thinking like me.
An idea could be to make a Milestone with the target of making Opensource AutoGK. This Milestone could have a high monetary target and procede parallel to the other feature-development target (two milestone at the same times).
At last let me underline that projects (Hcsoftware, Mute) that are breathing Milestone philosophy are all Opensource .....

I hope my request will have a positive response.

Thanks.



P.S. Apologize for my ''crazy'' English

[len0x]

@Hermann

I think ppl still don't understand the purpose of AutoGK. Open sourceness is overrated - it just leads to chaos and loss of user-friendly interface (although it does have its advantages of staying on cutting edge of techology, but quality software is not all about that). Whoever has free time starts hacking and releasing its own versions or at best everything is integrated into main application and we have GK version 2.0. If you have spent some time around this forum you would know how many feature requests I rejects every week not because there are difficult to implement but just because they do not fit into my vision of what AutoGK should do. I can guarantee you that M3 will not be about containers support despite the fact that most ppl want this feature (after AVI/DV support) exactly for that reason.

[hujer]

you are very wrong about opensourceness, it would be still you who decides what feature goes in and what dont, and if people actually fork it, still noone forces you to merge with it, see vdub and all the mods, its good for user, so many features are added that would not be added without this... but of course, you loose your current 100% control over it...

[len0x]

Originally posted by hujer
so many features are added that would not be added without this...

I don't believe AutoGK needs those features.

P.S. By the way - if you believe that you can persuade me - don't bother as AutoGK is going certain direction that excludes releasing of its sources. Soon you'll know :)

[Carraway]

Originally posted by len0x
P.S. By the way - if you believe that you can persuade me - don't bother as AutoGK is going certain direction that excludes releasing of its sources. Soon you'll know :)

This is not encouraging. Is AutoGK Pro on the way?

[len0x]

Originally posted by Carraway
This is not encouraging. Is AutoGK Pro on the way?

No, but if all goes well in the future I'll be able to go off "milestone" route.

[Hermann]

Originally posted by len0x
@Hermann
I think ppl still don't understand the purpose of AutoGK. Open sourceness is
overrated - it just leads to chaos and loss of user-friendly interface
(although it does have its advantages of staying on cutting edge of
techology, but quality software is not all about that).
Opensource doesn't means bad software. I know many good projects and I support them. You can release your code but surely this don't make AutoGK a bad software.
You have no obbligation of admit someone in your development team and you can continue to work alone if you like so.


Originally posted by len0x
Whoever has free time starts hacking and releasing its own versions or at
best everything is integrated into main application and we have GK version
2.0. If you have spent some time around this forum you would know how many
feature requests I rejects every week not because there are difficult to
implement but just because they do not fit into my vision of what AutoGK
should do. I can guarantee you that M3 will not be about containers support
despite the fact that most ppl want this feature (after AVI/DV support)
exactly for that reason.
This is another reason to go forward Opensource. I voted for another container because MKV seems more and more better then AVI. By releasing source-code you can continue to do your ''Official'' AutoGK version but who want can develop a support for MKV or anything else without disturb your work. You aren't obliged to merge Mod versions with your Official version. Mod versions can go parallel to Official version that ever remains the lighthouse of all Version and of all people interested in AutoGK.

There is another reason for that I ask the code: for anyone who is interested in digital video programming direct access to code is very educative to learn how a software work.

Last but not least: the only way to be sure that a software do what a people is asking is to look into source code and not the simple watching of how the software works.

The most important thing:
If for some reason you cannot continue the development of AutoGK in the future or if you plan to stop the development for more than a year, I ask you releasing the source code into public domain. This a very important thing to save money that people donated to AutoGK project. I ask you a reply to this point.



Really thanks for your work!

[len0x]

I think its time for the newcomers to read this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7770

[Hermann]

Originally posted by len0x
I think its time for the newcomers to read this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7770

In my words there wasn't the intention to rob something. I made only two threads about the argument and I don't understand why you get angry.
If you fears that someone can use your work to make money this is your lawful opinion and I respect it.
If you don't want to release source don't worry but don't tell me:''I don't release it because Opensource softwares don't work'' because this is not true and so I was only trying to explain why (for me) Opensource works better.
I buyed my rechargeable credit card mainly for donating AutoGK that seems a wonderful work so It's natural that I ask something to make it better and lasting (IMHO).


P.S. I don't know if my words sounds hard in english but don't worry I'm not angry with you. :-)


Hi!

[len0x]

Originally posted by Hermann
P.S. I don't know if my words sounds hard in english but don't worry I'm not angry with you. :-)


No worries. And I passed the point when I would get worked up about AutoGK comments long time ago :) I just don't want to go through this dicussion over and over again.

[len0x]

Originally posted by Hermann
Opensource doesn't means bad software. I know many good projects and I support them.

As it seems that more than just a few ppl had a problem interpreting what I meant - I need to clarify that for me quality of the software doesn't fully define whether its good or bad. I did not speak of any open source project in general, but simply stated that hacking of AutoGK source code will not do any good to its quality. I'm not sure how can one generalize my statement if I started with mentioning of purpose of AutoGK and making reference to its GUI... I hope we can move on now.

[Exoskeletor]

Len0x a good feature it would be to configure the default audio and subtitles track (So autogk will automaticly select them if it can find them. I mean for example the first english audio track no matter if it is dts or something else. )

With this a user who is using a lot of times autogk will have to hit only 5 clicks instead of 7 :D

[len0x]

yeah probably :)
I'll see what can be done if I'll be changing GUI.
(Alternatively last selected language can be remembered when opning new sources)