Canopus 2, Converting Letterbox to Anamorphic

[KevMull]

I'm using the crop filter in Caopus Procoder2 to scale up 4:3 Letterbox to 16:9.

What is the height I need to use for NTSC (720 x 480) and PAL (720 x 576) ?

Thanks

[erratic]

Crop 72 lines (top and bottom) for PAL, 60 lines for NSTC.
http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Letterbox.html

But resizing video with ProCoder is not always a good idea.
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236014

[KevMull]

Thanks for the info.

Problem is that it's a NTSC to PAL conversion so I may have to re-encode twice and do the the second (upsizing) in TMPG.

Cheers

[erratic]

Or you can crop and resize with VirtualDub(Mod) or Avisynth and then frameserve to ProCoder.
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240038
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242046

[KevMull]

Thanks for the links.

What if I crop and re-encode the original NTSC file (mpeg2) with TMPGenc and then convert this new cropped (upscaled) NTSC file to PAL with Procoder 2.
Will this give me the same results (quality wise) as Frame Serving as described in the links?

Also how does this sofware upscaling compare to that of the 'Zoom' mode (stretch vert & Horiz) that you get on a WS TV?

[erratic]

I would crop and resize with VirtualDub or Avisynth and frameserve to ProCoder. I wouldn't use TMPGEnc for that. VirtualDub is easier to work with than Avisynth, but for resizing interlaced video I'm sure Avisynth is better. Scharfi explains it in this thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74906

Normally ProCoder 2 converts interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC very well.

If the source is progressive ProCoder 2 can also slow it down correctly and automatically: 25 fps to 23.976 fps. Big problem here: this slowdown often results in a crash because of a serious bug in ProCoder 2. Canopus are aware of it and it should be fixed in the next update, but they're taking their time.

Avisynth can convert PAL to NTSC very well, but it's not user friendly so it's easy to get it wrong. If you want to use Avisynth, search Doom9's Avisynth Usage forum for more information, or post your questions there.

I'm not sure how software upscaling compares to the Zoom mode of a TV. It also depends on the TV of course, but I think software can do a better job. I would probably use Avisynth for converting PAL to NTSC (interlaced or non-interlaced). You can then frameserve to your preferred encoder.

[KevMull]

OK, I've tried the VirtualDub FrameServe to Procoder 2 method but atltough the actual frame serving works fine I can't seem to get the correct resolution right on the final processed mpg file.
It must be due to the PAL conversion as I've tried all sorts of settings in Vdub but the preview seems to look ok but i'm getting all sorts of results ...Squashed vertically, 'postage stamp' effect (border all around!) bar the correct on.

So just to recap......

The original mpeg2 file is NTSC (720x 480) interlaced, 4:3 Letterbox (2.35:1 non anamorphic) ripped from a DVDV.

I want to convert it to PAL, upscale to 16:9 anamorphic and maintain video aspect ratio (2.35:1 horizontal borders and all!).

I've tried simply removing 60 lines top & bottom but it still looks vertically squashed.
There's too many settings and options in the resize/cropping filter in VDub and i'm just getting confused!

I'm also using the Lanczos3 filter. (should I be?)

[erratic]

In VDub add the resize filter and use these settings:

New width: 720
New height: 576
Filter mode: Lanczos3
Interlaced: (check this if the source is interlaced, but interlaced resizing with VDub is probably not very good)
Expand frame and letterbox image: leave unchecked

Click OK, then click on the Cropping button. Crop 60 lines form NTSC 720x480 source (Y1 and Y2).

Frameserve to ProCoder 2.

ProCoder 2 source settings:

Interlacing: choose correct field order, or non-interlaced if source is progressive
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (D1/DV PAL 16:9)

Convert to DVD PAL 16:9 with ProCoder. Most important target settings:

Interlacing: preferably the same as source field order. (Upper field first should be fine also, because ProCoder can change the field order correctly if the source is not upper field first.)
Aspect Ratio: 16 x 9

[KevMull]

OK, sorted.

Didn't do this bit that you mentioned in tour other thread....

....the Source Pixel Aspect Ratio to D1 NTSC 16:9.

I had it set to 4:3 (default),

Seems ok now. (file being processed as I type)

Now to look at converting the ac3 5.1 audio speed to PAL speed.
Should be straight forward enough.....I hope!

[KevMull]

Looks like our posts crossed.

I think the main problem was the 'Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (D1/DV PAL 16:9)' which I had set wrong (4:3).

Got a feeling I set the height to 480 rather than 576, i'll know in a few mins, i'm just trying out a short clip 'til I get it nailed.

I thought I only change to 576 in Procoder's Target settings?

Don't quite get this as I thoought it would remain as (720x360), 720x480,

The fact that I'm resizing AND converting from NTSC to PAL in one fail swoop using two different encoders is confusing my brain!

Not to mention the audio side of it!

[erratic]

VirtualDub has to do the resizing. If you let ProCoder do it the result will be jaggy.

The most important settings after that are the field order and the aspect ratio of the source.

After cropping and resizing with VDub your source PAR is D1 PAL 16:9.

I don't know what the field order of your source MPEG-2 file is, but if it's interlaced and you set the field order incorrectly the result will be a mess.

[KevMull]

OK...FINAL RESULTS!

On my first settings that finally worked I did have the new height set to 480 in VDub and also the 'Expand' tick box was ticked.

In Canopus source I had it set D1 NTSC 16:9.

It still came out fine.

Tried your settings and also came out fine, looks pretty much the same.

Also both look MUCH better than my TV's zoom mode which can be quite unforgiving on a 40" WS RP. VERY impressed with the smoothness of the picture, it almost looks like true anamorphic (OK, like an early Warner anamorphic DVD when they transferred from old prints!) , you can't see the scan lines like you do when you use 'Zoom mode'.


One quirky thing though.....

In both cases when I took a screen shot in Power DVD the bmp resolution read as 1016x570 but when I opened it in PSP8 teh physical sizes looked like the normal 720 x 540 that I normally get from screen grabs. Is this something to do with the pixel size?

Yet the properties of teh actual mpg file were correct...720 x 576.
So where's this extra res coming from in the bmp screen shot?

And after watching the same clip several times I can now notice the difference in the speed of the soundtrack on the PAL version compared to the natural speed of the NTSC version. I was always aware of this 4% increase but never noticed it before.

The clip was from the musical Evita (if only they released it in anamorphic WS in the first place!)

erratic....Many, many thanks for your help and patience. I would have never have got this far without your help...Much appreciated.

[erratic]

I'm glad you're happy with the results.

I'm not familiar with PowerDVD or PSP8 but obviously PowerDVD has resized your source (720x576) to 1016x570 (approx. 16:9).

As far as resizing to 720x480 in VDub is concerned: if PAL is your target it should be faster to let VDub resize to 720x576 immediately, otherwise the video has to be resized twice, first to 720x480 by VDub and then to 720x576 by ProCoder. If VDub resizes to 720x576 ProCoder doesn't have to resize it anymore.

[erratic]

After further testing I noticed that ProCoder only does a bad job when resizing horizontally. Resizing vertically doesn't result in jaggies.

So 720x480 NTSC to 720x576 PAL should be fine.
Letterboxed DVD to Anamorphic DVD should be fine too.
ProCoder 2 does a bad job when resizing, for example, SVCD 480x??? to DVD 720x???.

[KevMull]

Just what I didn't want to hear as my next project involves converting such a file, although it's in a DVD format, it was sourced from SVCD by somebody else.
In some DVD players it only plays on half the screen (vertically). I was hoping I could resize it OK. Maybe I'll just leave it now.

Thanks for the info.

[erratic]

Well, you can still resize it with VirtualDub(Mod) and frameserve to ProCoder like we discussed earlier. Then the quality will be fine.

Another option is to resize the SVCD to 352x576/480 which is also a DVD compliant resolution. Then there won't be any jaggies because you're downsizing.