Stereo to AC3 5.1?

[Sakuya]

Sorry for the vague subject title, I have noticed the many guides for converting stereo to AC3 5.1. I have tried that in the past but the result was that the voices and music are all evenly divided among the speakers. I believe that method would work great for concerts but what I'm doing is not a concert.

I was wondering if it was possible to edit the audio for each speaker channel? For example, for the center speaker, one might edit the audio and delete all the music so that just the voice comes out of the center speaker. And then only the music comes out of the rear speakers, etc. Is that possible? :confused: I have Soft Encode if that can do what I want it to do...

[joshbm]

Try DPLII upmixing (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83384)... I think you'll find the results quite good for what you want.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

Thanks. What's the difference between your guide and this one:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29277

I followed the above guide last time and all it did was divide the sound up equally between the five speakers and then add LFE. :( Will your guide do that?

Also, I read through your guide and it seems that you don't really need the Intervideo WinDVD except for the filters. Is there a free version for it or no? :(

[eb]

You can use AC3Filter for your task
In MIXER section you will find sliders to control exactly what you want.
http://img20.exs.cx/img20/4004/mp22AC3.jpg

[Sakuya]

In regards to joshbm's guide, when should I be adding in AC3Filter? What about FFDSHOW? :confused: What would it be connected to in Graphedit? Which WinDVD should I be downloading? Is there possibly some other guide using free tools? :D

[joshbm]

All the tools are free ;). If you mean WinDVD, just simply download the demo it has all the filters you need (it's what I have :D). Also follow the guide, it uses ffdshow. eb prefers AC3Filter, which you could use, but I use ffdshow since it is currently being developed and supported (AC3Filter hasn't been updated in a while and no word from the creator) and contains a ton more options than AC3Filter.

What the guide that I gave you does, is upmixes using a DPLII method, which means it will *separate* your sound into *different* channels. Each channel will be unique and sound different from another. While the method you followed is ambisonics. It can yield good results, but I do prefer DPLII upmix.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

I got WinDVD6 trial version. In the filters in Graphedit, I cannot find WavDest under DirectShow Filters. :( And also, my FFDSHOW is a bit weird. It doesn't have the settings for LFE, Input/Output, low-pass frequency, gain, etc. :( I have version ffdshow-20040508.

[ahgc]

The zip file containing graphedit has also inside the filter you mentioned. You just have to run "register.bat" to register that filter and others included in the zip file.
Regds,

Antonio

[Sakuya]

I registered it but it still doesn't have WavDest. I do have Quicktime but I did not install Realplayer. :( As for FFDSHOW, it's a combination of FFDSHOW and VFW. I needed VFW for an earlier AVI that I had. I don't need it anymore. Should I be installing just the FFDSHOW alone? If so, should I be using FFDSHOW or FFDSHOW Alpha? I noticed at Sourcefourge that Alpha is more updated.

Edit:
Nevermind! I realized I needed to unzip Graphedit to make the Register.bat work. So now, I have WavDest finally. :o I also updated to the FFDSHOW in your guide, version 20041012 but it's basically got the same thing with the VFW. :eek: I still cannot find the LFE options, etc.

[joshbm]

ffdshow Audio Decoder should indeed have LFE Crossover. Make sure under "Show/Hide Filters", LFE Crossover is under Visible filters.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

Nevermind! :o I realized that when I uninstalled the old ffdshow, the ffdshow.ax file never got deleted. So I deleted it and reinstalled the new version and LFE is there now. :p

Well, after it finished processing the audio file, I end up with a new WAV. I am running it through BeSweet with these settings. Are they okay?

Bitrate: 448 kbps
Create 5.1 AC3
Endians: Motorola

For the bitrate, I set it at 448 because for all the other official AC3 files I've seen, they were all 448 so I thought I should do the same. :rolleyes:

Later:
Okay, watched my handiwork. The music and everything was lovely. The LFE doesn't have much "oomph". Also, the voices are in the front/rear speakers, but definitely not in the center speaker. How do I get it so that the voices are only in the center speaker?

Does it have anything to do with the channel swap tip you gave in your guide? If you can help me on how to connect/setup AC3Filter instead of ffdshow, I'd appreciate it. :scared:

[Sakuya]

I realized by using Sonic Foundry Soft Encode that the channels are all mixed up. You said they should be in: L, C, R, SL, SR, LFE. But:

Channel 0: Left - music
Channel 1: Center - music
Channel 2: Right - voice
Channel 3: SL - rumblings/muffled voice
Channel 4: SR - soft music/soft voice
Channel 5: LFE - not enough LFE

Is there any way to configure it better? Under Swap Channels in ffdshow filter, there are 7 channels. The new one is "back center". What is that? What is the layout when I don't swap the channels? By the way, I selected "remove low frequencies" in LFE Crossover.

[joshbm]

So you used BeSweet to encode your AC3 and the channels were mixed up? If so, I have an error in my guide and I need to address it. The current mappings are the following:

Channel 1: "FL"
Channel 2: "FR"
Channel 3: "C"
Channel 4: "LFE"
Channel 5: "SL"
Channel 6: "SR"

That is why you are getting "rumblings" in the SL ;), because it is really the LFE channel. The 3rd channel is the voice, which explains everything :).

Regards,
Josh

[joshbm]

Try this:

Check "Channel Swap"

Front left -> front left
Front center -> front right
Front right -> front center
Back left -> LFE
Back center -> back center
Back right -> back left
LFE -> back right

Theoretically that should work like a charm :).

PS- The guide was updated with this information.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

Thanks, I'll try that. Is it possible to increase the LFE channel's volume? It doesn't boom much. Should I be checking "remove low frequencies from front L/R"? So I should just convert the WAV to AC35.1 as I did above in BeSweet?

[joshbm]

Yes, run it through BeSweet now :). You can make the LFE louder. You'll need to check "Volume" and mess with the LFE slider I believe. Careful, I am unsure if you will get clipping. You can also check "remove low frequencies". What this does is removes the bass in all channels *except* the LFE. I do like to have a little bass in each channel, so I usually don't check it.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

It's got very nice results! :D For some reason, the ones I did with the channel swapping also had a bit out of sync. Maybe it was because I did too many things at the same time during the process that caused it. Anyway, if you can answer my question below, then I'll be fine.

Off topic:
Also, is there a way to keep WinDVD's filters without the program itself? I want to uninstall it since I don't use it. I think it's messing up my codecs in ffdshow. My XviD AVIs can load up in Vdub but there's a message that says it needs VFW. I set it to read XviD in VFW Config menu but it still says that. Before, it wasn't like that.

[joshbm]

If you know which channels are out of sync and by how many ms, then you can use delay to fix them. I'll get back to you on WinDVD uninstall :), I'm rushed to go out the door at the moment.

Regards,
Josh

[ahgc]

About WinDVD uninstall I was also wondering. Anyway I found a stupid way to do this. Just keep graphedit window opened (using "Intervideo Audio Processor FX" filter) and perform normal uninstall of windvd. This way it will not remove the filter (c:\program files\intervideo\common\bin\*)
Regds,

Antonio

[joshbm]

Good post ahgc, guide updated with that information.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

I opened Graphedit and opened the Audio Process Fx filter only (no WAV files, just the filter) and then uninstalled WinDVD and the InterActual Player. When I went to check on it, the Fx filter is gone from the list and only this remains:

InterVideo Audio Processor

:( What did I do wrong?:o

[joshbm]

You need to register the files again. Go to your WinDVD Bin directory. It should be:

C:\Program Files\InterVideo\Common\Bin

From there make a new text file and enter this:regsvr32 /s Auprocfx.ax
regsvr32 /s compand.dll
regsvr32 /s ComTruSurroundXT.dll
regsvr32 /s DHIVI.dll
regsvr32 /s DMO_TSXT.dll
regsvr32 /s DolbyHph.dll
regsvr32 /s DownmixDMO.dll
regsvr32 /s DSPDMO.dll
regsvr32 /s expDMO.dll
regsvr32 /s IviContainerDMO.dll
regsvr32 /s LakeControl.dll
regsvr32 /s MSVCP60.DLL
regsvr32 /s SpeakerDMO.dll
regsvr32 /s timestretch.dllThen goto File > Save As... > "register.bat"

Quotes included. Or you can download my register.bat as well as files on the updated guide.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

Thanks so much, it's there now! :D Now then, am I allowed to delete the folders for InterActual and InterVideo now? They are both part of WinDVD. Thanks for all your help!

[Sakuya]

Originally posted by joshbm
If you know which channels are out of sync and by how many ms, then you can use delay to fix them.
It's hard to tell but I should say the entire audio is out of sync because the first 3 or so seconds disappeared after I did the process in Graphedit. I don't know why though. :confused: Why does Graphedit do this? What causes it to delete these first few seconds of audio? How can I avoid it? I believe this issue is being talked about in your guide thread. :p I hope a solution will develop soon!

[joshbm]

I believe it is the InterVideo Processor Fx filter-- it does not delete the first few seconds, but it mutes it instead. With all the results I have seen it is ~1.5 seconds, I'll say around 2 if you include the fade in that the filter strangely applies. Your audio should be in sync, but it should be missing approximately the first 2 seconds of audio. There is a slight delay in the audio, but it is so small that the results are almost inaudable.

I am currently coming up with a solution. But what you could do is just add 2 seconds of audio at the beginning and if you need to sync it with a video add 2 seconds of black at the beginning as well. I would even add 5 just to be safe.

Regards,
Josh

[Sakuya]

I'm having some problems with using this guide. I'm not sure if the original audio does not have enough "oomph" in it but I set the bass at 180 and the surround at 75. When I played it on the DVD, it indeed says Dolby Digital but it sounds like a normal stereo file with the addition of some bass. There's practically no (or very very faint) sound from the rear speakers. :( And a side note is, the source audio was originally in OGG format. So I opened it in Audacity and saved it as a WAV.

And also about my second audio stream which I also made into 5.1, it's from a VCD source. And you know how those are dual channels. Well, this happens to be dual channel with only one language. I extracted it and it says it's stereo. It sounds fine on the computer. When I made it into 5.1 with the same settings as above and played on DVD, it's like surround everywhere. The voices are coming from the side and rear speakers and not the front speakers. It's like a concert hall effect. I believe it was like this originally because I tested it with my VCD, setting it to stereo and it's like an echo or a concert hall. How do I make it sound like solid stereo?

I believe you have to just take one channel and then double it up in order for it to be stereo and then convert that to 5.1? :confused:

[plomon]

Here's the screenshot when I tried to load Intervideo Audioprocessor Fx in Graph Edit:

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/299/intfxbh5.jpg

There is no input/output pin to this module to connect anything....what kind of a weird error is this.

[Sakuya]

There is no input/output pin to this module to connect anything....what kind of a weird error is this.

I think I had that same problem. Please see the first two posts at the top of page 2 for the solution.

[eb]

From your graf above you ccan save directly as 5.1 ac3.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9420/dyl1aj7.jpg



EDIT Sample from this graph. When using VLC player and headphones to listen please remember to set audio device as 5.1 in VLC player to see (hear) result.

ftp://www.eb.enterpol.pl:eb@www.eb.enterpol.pl/ddyl.ac3