advice on buying home cinema system ??

[jamieuk]

Hi I have just bought a top of the range dvd player kiss 558 > and would like a sound system to go with it.

After doing soem searching around the web I found products called " home cinema systems" these seem ideal for me put all of them seem to offer a amp/dvd player.

as I all ready have a top of the range dvd player there is no use for the dvd player that comes with all of these + I dont see the point in paying extra for something I all ready have

so wot do I need to buy then >??? wot do you recomemd.

in short words would just like the awseome surround sound when I watch movies.

any advice you can give me is most apreciated !

can afford to spend around £250-£320

[Atamido]

You probably want to read up over at AVSForum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/) in the "Home Theater In A Box" section. There is an insane amount of information to read through to get to a good decision. It's where I go before making any serious stereo purchases. To much information for casual browsing though.

[trapvector]

Generally, I think it's better to buy stereo components separately.
That being said, all of my equipment currently is Sony. I'm pretty satisfied with it. But I'm planning on upgrading to Axioms when I have extra money. You have to be careful with "Home Theatre In A Box" because they may advertise a gargantuan 300 watt system-but what they mean is 300 divided 6 speakers to equal 50 watts of output. Caveat Emptor.

[Mug Funky]

yes, that's the big thing to watch for in home theatre. a good stereo amp will cost the same as a medium range 5.1ch amp. essentially this means that to bring down the cost of the 5.1 amp, they've had to cut corners.

expect to be spending quite a lot, or having to become a tinkerer.

always buy matched speakers. i don't care if in the shop the speakers are all different shapes and sizes on a typical 5.1 setup, the truth is these movies are all mixed with 5 identical monitor speakers, and a correctly calibrated subwoofer. this of course makes the centre channel a difficult matter, as a chunky big speaker in front of your teev isn't exactly the best home theatre experience. i suppose you can compromise with the centre channel just for that reason (it's usually just full of dialogue anyway, so a slightly different speaker shape won't really hurt things).

250-300 pounds? ouch. my advice is to play back in stereo for a while until you can afford more. for this price you'll most definitely get a sup-par 5.1 system. that's just not enough cash-per-channel IMHO. better to listen in stereo for a bit longer than to buy something you'll regret. my 2ch system is all second hand stuff from the '80s (except the speakers) and cost me twice as much as what you propose to spend on almost 3 times the equipment.

[edit]

oh, just a bit of more encouraging advice: i find that surround effects in movies aren't nearly as impressive as the massive dynamics and richness of the foley tracks. i listen on a monolithic (stereolithic?) pair of speakers. not 5.1 channels, but when you've got a nice sounding movie on with the volume turned to the right level (get this level by turning it up until a normal passage of dialogue is at the same level you'd talk at - everything follows from there), then you wont care that it doesn't also come from behind you - it'll still blow the doors off your house :)


oh, one last thing - ALWAYS have DRC (dynamic range compression) turned off in you DVD player. it's naff, and negates the reason you get powerful amps and speakers. only use it if you're trying to talk through the movie as well. my el-cheapo brand Hyundai DVD player doesn't even support DRC, and i don't miss it at all (it supports DTS decoding for some reason though... nice little bonus that i had no idea about until i fumbled the "audio" button by accident).

[neo75903]

@mug funky:
DRC is nice when you watch a movie at night and you dont want to bang your neighbours out of their beds :).

I am very satisfied with my Sony amp, specially the buid in surround settings for emulating a cinema. It expanses the sound as if you were sititng in a larger room. I know this is not the 'pure' sound, but i prefer that give up that a bit to enjoy more surround.
And while i have heard a lot of other amps doing the same, i have to say that the sony doesnt at to much effect in your sound to a level when it becomes 'fake'.

In terms for speakers, for the mid range price class i would advice the KEF KHT series. Specially the KHT 2005.2 is very nice and as funky poited out comes with 5 identical speakers and a subwoofer.

[jamieuk]

I ended up buying this of ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3846570406&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

is it any good I havent got a clue ??

+ any advice when it comes to buying my speakers >?? do I just buy any old pair ?

[neo75903]

Yamaha is nice, they have excellent amps. I can only speak for my friend who bought an Yamaha as well.
The best way for speakers is to go to the shop and ask for a demo. Most speakers have similar secs but can sound completly different from each other.
Hope you find something you like.

[Soulhunter]

Yeah, Yamaha builds good mid-range amps imo !!!

Especially their DSP effect stuff is very nice... :cool:

Anyhow, for the upper-range I still prefer Onkyo or Denon


For the speakers...

Maybe lurk around for this (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AthenaTechnologiesMicra6p1.html) ones !!!


Bye

[jamieuk]

thanks for advice guys >> I thought the speakers would be the cheap part of all this lol > some cheap 1s but at the same time some really exspensice 1s.

I have been told that I wont be able to afford 5.1 speakers (wot ever that means) as my budjet is only around £100-£150 ($280)

do you think I am going to strugle to get a decent set of speakers for that kind of budget >??

if you can recomend anything to me that would be cool !! I havent got clue wot to buy and feel in the end I am going to end up guessing a set to buy.

no places were I live to get demos on speakers.

cheers jamie

[Soulhunter]

Hey, the system I mentioned above Ive seen for $320... ;)


Bye

[Mug Funky]

no places where you can get demos? damn. i thought i lived out in the boonies :)

Yamaha are definitely nice amps. they're in that bracket where you need exceedingly expensive speakers to be able to hear problems with the amp, and if you're on a budget, you probably wont be hearing problems with it :)

it's so long since i went speaker shopping that i couldn't tell you what to get (my method of buying them was a little naff, too - cruise the 2nd hand shops until something nice turns up, then pounce on it).

don't be afraid to ask sales people to try out their stuff - there's no reason at all for them to refuse unless they run the kind of shop you wouldn't want to buy from. it's more of an issue with the expensive stuff, but i have no respect for a salesperson who doesn't let the customer decide for themselves. google might just turn up a hifi store in your area that you could go to (i find it hard to believe there's no places around that would let you demo speakers - even Kmart's electronics section would let you demo a mini-hifi, and would probably turn off all the other horrible things to let you do so as well).

[jamieuk]

only problem is you cant buy it in the uk were I am from >> thankd for help any way

cheers jamie

[Soulhunter]

Offtopic:

As we're talking about Yamaha receivers...

Already seen this (http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Yamaha_RX_Z9) thingy ???

Read the reviews... http://img14.exs.cx/img14/8094/drool2.gif


Bye

[neo75903]

woow
review here:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Yamaha_RX-Z9p1.php

Look at the back panel screenshot, lots of digital connections :)
9.1 surround? Guess that is for ppl with large rooms dedicated as movie theater. Guess it uses some kind of mixing to emulate a dolby 5.1 to 9.1.

[jamieuk]

thats not my amplifier mate >> i wish it was lol

this is mine http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3846570406&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

[Soulhunter]

Yeah...

But in the meantime I read some reviews about the Yamaha RX-V540 !!!


It seems to be on par with the Pioneer VSX-D712...

And imo the VSX-D712 is one of the best recievers @ this price-tag !!!

Btw, I use the 7.1 version of the VSX-D712 (VSX-D812) for my PCs... :cool:


Bye

[guada]

Good evening,

Very interesting.
It is necessary to remember that the amplifier is only an element important of the chain of the system video.
For me, The System is a whole. Nothing must get used to the light, by fear to distort the setting of the view and the resonant cohesion as well as the receiving piece.

" And imo the VSX-D712 is one of the best recievers @ this price-tag !!!" SOULHUNTER

Sorry to contradict you, there is extensively better.
You didn't aim the range prestige. ;) ;)

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by guada

" And imo the VSX-D712 is one of the best recievers @ this price-tag !!!" SOULHUNTER

Sorry to contradict you, there is extensively better.
You didn't aim the range prestige. ;) ;)

So, then tell me which receiver for 250€ is "extensively" better !?!

This statement is based on test-listening @ my local dealer... ;)

Btw, seems most reviews (internet and magazines) confirm my statement !!!


Bye

[guada]

I am distressed SOUL, it is secret bip...

The world of the aware audiophiles is minimal. Sorry my friend.

[jamieuk]

are the company Kef well known for making good speakers.

I am thinking of buying these wot do you think ???

http://www.areadvd.de/english/kef_kht_2005_mk2.shtml


by the way just to be clear I am looking for speakers to go in front room in my flat >>> as you can proberly guess beeing flat it isnt very big

[neo75903]

Kef is a big player in terms of speakers.
The KHT2005.2 are small speakers and a subwoofer you can put away out of sight which i thing it is a shame coz the glass plate on the woofer is very nice :).
Dont think you will have problems install them in your flat. But as with many thinks choice of speakers is a matter of taste. Try to get a demo in a shop and convince yourself. I bought mine coz i did so and liked the sound very much. The KHT2005.2 sounds excellent as for movie sound as for stereo music.

www.kef.com, have a look they have really nice speakers and some of them are pricy too :/

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by guada

I am distressed SOUL, it is secret bip...

The world of the aware audiophiles is minimal. Sorry my friend.

A secret bip ???

Sorry my friend, but it seems I cant follow ya... :confused:

Think "real" audiophiles would anyway prefer stereo amplifiers, and not 5.1 receivers ???


Bye

[Mug Funky]

soulhunter - if they have stereo receivers at all, they'd be buying 5, bridging them and driving 1 speaker on each of them. or possibly buying 10 of them and bi-amping.

then they'd buy $5000 interconnects, special power cords, and line conditioners (actually, those are a good idea in my parts).

"Audiophile" in the industry is another word for "sucker". it's mostly all snake-oil and crap like that - ways for boutique electronics companies to make elephant bucks off gullible fools who believe their eyes and pocket-books more than they're willing to believe their ears.

that said, "audiophile" traditionally means someone who loves audio... so i'd have to count myself as one of them (though i haven't the money for $5000 speaker wire, and if i did, i'd spend it on better speakers or more CDs).

[neo75903]

@Mug Funky:
Not always true. i Caint speak for all the sells men out there who do abuse the term "audiophile" for selling inferior devices.
I dont know where you guys are from, but it is very common here in europe to give a small demo for "audiophile" electronics. Believe me there are huge differences. An good amp/speaker stereo setup can sound much better then a 5.1 setup.
Havent heard a lot of them, but if they do you will be amazed.
A big mistake lot of ppl make is that they can buy such an expensive set but then throw them in a living room! No folks, if you can buy such a expensive set, have some money over to decorate a dedicated Music/Movie Theater.

[guada]

I am distressed, I cannot decide on the KEF marriage / YAMAHA.
You should inquire to avoid to be disappointed.

[guada]

Neo75903,

I am distressed, I think that it is not necessary to compare what is not comparable.
A system 5.1 will never make the upscale stereo.
Nevertheless a stereo system has high output with an amplifier multichannel, préamp, more decoder and processor A/V can fill the conditions multichannel extensively without conditions.
If you want to know what is an audiophile, I would be happy to debate THE RANGE PRESTIGE with you.

[Mug Funky]

i know, neo. i was offloading some angst at the stupid kind of audiophile.

indeed, there's demos available everywhere where i'm from - department stores, smaller dedicated hifi stores. it's quite popular actually.

i'm a natural sceptic.

btw, if i could afford to, i'd buy monoblocks and bi-amp my speakers. you can never have too much power :)

but of course, there's such a thing as "diminishing returns" when it comes to the money you're willing to pour into a stereo system. i'm happy with my 2nd-hand shop setup. it's certainly better than the room it's in, but i certainly can't afford a new house for it.

for critical listening i use my cans, but they're getting their headband fixed at the moment (lifetime warranty is a beautiful thing, especially if your cans get as much use as mine do - this is their 2nd trip back to the factory to have the band fixed).

[edit]

guada: prestige and sound quality may often be seen together, but they are NOT related. prestige is wank. prestige is $10,000 and a system you could build yourself for $200. prestige is a warm fuzzy feeling you can only get by spending more money than your fellow man. deliver me from prestige. i'll take good sound over prestige any day.

okay, rant over. i agree that you'll be spending a lot of money to get good sound, unless you make everything yourself (it's a damn steep learning curve... more like a wall. one i have no intention of climbing at this point).

[jamieuk]

wot does 5.1 mean >> I keep seeing every 1 go on about 5.1 > 6.1 ? 7.1 etc ???

[Mug Funky]

5.1 - it's shorthand for 5 speakers and LFE (low frequency effects - basically a subwoofer specific channel).

the .1 is some engineer's joke - the sub's bandwidth is so limited that it might as well be a tenth of a channel :)

[guada]

Sorry to contradict you Mug funky, For 200 dollars I know better and it is not a joke..
In term of prestige, I don't spend my money contrary to what you believe.
I only have a system high fidelity, that can consider itself like" prestige."
Indeed, and I join you the word prestige is only a Term that has its recognition.
When one speaks of prestige, it is not necessarily of quality. and it is there that intervenes the audiophile: the ear to monitoring.
Not only to be to monitoring, but capable to discern and to understand the process of the system audio: musicality, stamps, stereo, dynamic picture, transparency, food, powers, time of answer, harmonic and especially the reading of the different curves audios.

It is necessary to underline it, a system audio or video is a whole. Therefore all elements that compose it have a very particular role.

[Soulhunter]

Ok, maybe Im not a audiophile !?!
But a videophile par excellence... :devil:

[guada]

I never pronounced it Soul, but I confirm that you have the real talent in the video.
To soon my friend. :)

[neo75903]

@guada:
I can understand your point of view and i am not claiming you caint buy excellent speakers for $200. On the contrary i have been amazed by this price class of speakers for a few times. Idd prestige has always been linked to often with hifi quality but this has more todo with ppl who buys them. Admit it, when someone can pay for music/movie installation, they want something fancy and that is what they are paying for.

You also forget that an 5.1 amp can switch back to erm 2.1 in my case. I use this mode for music only and there are only a few 5.1 speakers who can also play 2.1 or stereo music descently.
It is not true that an stereo amp has higher output, as with many things stereo amps also come with different sizes.

If anyone ever go to the shop for a listening session, take a cd with dynamic you have listen a lot so you can compare how the new will sound like. Please dont take a cd recorded from mp3 unless you are certain about the quality (high bitates).

[Mug Funky]

i may have exaggerated about $200, but i wonder just how much it costs to put one of these things together yourself? obviously time = money, and there'd be a lot of time and effort going into hand building an amplifier (and possibly speakers - i know a guy who designs and builds studio monitors and sells them for very very high prices).

if you build one yourself, you can decide it's specs - don't like the phase-shifting that tone controls apply? don't put them into your amp. don't like current crossover networks? design one to your liking. want class A? class A is actually a simpler circuit, so why not do that :).

[neo75903]

I dont think building it yourself will save you a lot of money, but you will have it build to your specs. Considering you will get yourself some good quality components as well.
But ppl like me who dont understands electronic circuits dont have a choice then to buy it from the shops. :/

[LordRPI]

Hate to jump in here so late, but in the US, try not to listen to the guys in those stores too much, they sell you what will make them the most money, not fit your needs or your budget.

Although I will say to get good quality interconnects, not the stuff that came with your NES nearly 20 years. Monster Cable is nice, but unless you have super ears and a truly incredible stereo you probably won't any quality differnce than buying some cable that's slightly cheaper. Make sure you get speaker wire that's thick enough too; having speaker wire too thin can put a stress on your speakers/amp (sorta). When I had some cheap cable (yes, I was a poor kollege student), it caused my system to clip slightly.. replacing the cables with some nice 12-guage wire let me crank the amp higher with less side effects.

I've always been satisfied with my Harman Kardon AVR-85 receiver - always look for the "High Current' designs, as sometimes that Watt rating can be overrated (cough, cough.. sony). Harman Kardon, Yamaha and Onkyo should do well in the current department. I'm hesitant to buy a system with more numbers than 5.1 at the moment. I actually don't use surround speakers at the moment, but my speakers (http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/homeaudiovideo/eseries/e_frameset_center.html) are large enough to pass on a subwoofer (unless I can get something like a sunfire).

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by LordRPI

Harman Kardon, Yamaha and Onkyo should do well...

Yeah, HK Ive forgotten to mention... :o

Still have a 90's HK stereo amp !!!

But whats with Denon ???

Seems nobody except me likes their recievers... :(


Bye

[LordRPI]

Dennons are good too. Last time I looked at one, I couldn't afford it :(

The HK model I have was a late 90s and cost me $1,700. It is a 5.1 receiver.

[neo75903]

idd had a Denon before, really liked the quality of it. Sound was very warm and spacious then my current Sony. Coulnd afford a new sony because had to pay lot more for the same amount of digital input.
(current amp is Sony STR-DB1070)

[guada]

An opinion of guada:

An overhead projector cannot get of everywhere.
As the hifi, the high fidelity or the home movies, must melt in their environment and must be specific to every facilities.
Thus, a Rolls cannot look like a 2 CV.
Our facilities audios or videos must complete themselves without privileging a component or a source of better quality. optimization is another business.
To find a compromise in its choices, it's the best option.
These are not the best elements that compose the high-quality system.
The quality is present in each of us. Our monitoring is not necessarily the same, therefore our produce different.

For my part, I learned to forge me a character of the musical monitoring according to the plurality of the systems existing on the whole globe.
To each to test its system and to elect The programmed System to its configuration: expressive, definite, aerial, neutral, transparent, dynamic and of big stability.

Bye.

[hyway]

1 word ----ONKIO