Why don't you close this forum?

[lighty]

I anticipate a lot of hot replys but I have to say this. :rolleyes:


1. If DVD-RB is de facto begining to be some kind of semi-freeware then it should have it's own forum opened elsewere since it is most anoying to read about new versions of software and not be able to test them.:angry:

2. I am from a country that Paypal doesn't accept cards from, so I feel left out and it seems to me that new versions of DVD-RB are reserved for the US and EU countries only (even all EU countries are not covered by Paypal). I am not turning this into a political question or anything like that but ppl live outside those countries too.:eek:



@jdobbs
I sympathize with all the time you spend on this project but then please turn this program either into a propper shareware or into a propper freeware. This way you only offended ppl who are discriminated by Paypal and who can only drool over the discussions on this forum. As I said earlier it would be ethical to open such forum elsewhere since I consider Doom9 opened this forum in good faith.
I guess my opinion is in minority but I just have to said it.
NHF- I realy love your program and would love to donate but I am unable to, so I have to release my frustration somewhere.:scared:

[Rockas]

Have you read v0.64 beta changelog?

But it is my belief that I should somehow reward those to took the time and effort to contribute to this project, either through donation or extraordinary testing support.

In your country, isn't allowed to work a little too?:p

keep it UP

[glassvial]

Calm down, jdobbs said that after ~30 days or so he'll release the versions to everybody. Think of the donators/VIP's as alpha testers/guinea pigs for the rest of us, they get to break it first ;)

Me, just give me a stable/working version of RB and I'm happy. I still need to see if .64a solves this B&W backup problem I have/had...just no time!

[wmansir]

I thought of this issue myself and I'm going to discuss it with the forum admins because public discussion of closed betas is generally frowned on. I know DIF4U had a similar beta release arrangement, but I don't know how it was handled in the forums.

Also, I still think DVD-RB is freeware, and jdobbs recently posted (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=558948#post558948) to confirm it would be stay that way. I don't think it's fair to call it semi-freeware just because new betas aren't released immediately.

[dragongodz]

this is sad.

people get a free program that is more complicated than most people realise. in return jdobbs says people can give donations and/or help to test and make it better.

he then rewards those people by letting them get a release slightly earlier. effectivly saying "thank you" to the donators and those that have contributed a lot with testing etc.

then he gets this sort of crap thrown at him. ok you cant donate, as Rockas said you dont have to, just do some testing to try and track bugs or contribute some other way. if thats too much then be patient and wait while others do. infact the testers getting it earlier may result in version you get NOT having bugs that the versions they get do have.

close this forum because you didnt get an early copy ? jee talk about an ungreatful overreaction.

[PiXuS]

@dragongodz

I don't believe lighty's view is generalized. I have more faith in humanity than that. :)

I believe jdobbs decision is a good and smart one. And... doesn't jdobbs OWN DVD-RB anyway?

PiXuS

[p200002]

I suggest jdobbs shorten the period to, say, 21 days or 14 days. However, if there are not many new features in the future, it doesn't matter waiting for 1 day or 30 days.

[glassvial]

Originally posted by p200002
I suggest jdobbs shorten the period to, say, 21 days or 14 days. However, if there are not many new features in the future, it doesn't matter waiting for 1 day or 30 days.
He can release it however he chooses, it's his program, "he's the boss" as it were. Now, I would *hope* that if he releases a seriously f'ed up version that he would be quick to fix it as he has so many times in the past, usually before some of us even notice (many thanks to jdobbs for his quick fixes, btw), but again I have no qualms about letting the people who have the *time* to play with these alpha's (that's what I'll label the VIP releases...) Personally, I don't. And I may even donate if .64a fixes my B&W post problem just as a show of appreciation for his work in resolving it, and curing my frustration :)

And I also agree with what dragongodz said, very much so an ungrateful overreaction, if anything we should all be grateful the program has progressed this far, and perhaps someday will be "perfect"

[lighty]

@dragondz
Believe it or not I do realize how hard it can be to program stuff like that. BUT I don't like unclear situations like this and I have a right to be frustrated for being discriminated in this way. I am sure a lot of ppl feel just like me but they're simply too embarassed to express their thoughts on the matter.

Also, I haven't thrown any crap on him. I simply protested because I am unable to donate but if I am to visit this forum I am stuck with discussions about stuff I don't have access to. So if I am asked to demonstrate some good faith then jdobbs and beta testers have to be asked same thing too. Again it seems it is not clear enough that I don't have anything against jdobbs personaly or professionaly but I think it would be more apropriate now to open his own forum where lucky guys can discuss betas as much as they like. This forum could then be used for discussions on available versions.

AFAIK - (I may be wrong) I think DVDRemake has same aproach since some discusions about using it are held on Doom9 but beta testing and such stuff is maintained at their own forum since not everybody have access to those versions.


As for ungrateful overreaction... I guess you're the one lucky enough to be in the country that Paypal have business to? It is easy to maintain moral high-ground when you're in position to have a choice. :mad:


Oh, and if you read posts of the ppl who started donating after jdobbs it is their main concern to get all of the new versions. They're not doing it to help jdobbs's efforts but in a way they consider it a buy so it is a sort of semi-shareware deal in my eyes.


@wmansir
It was also like that with Ateme beta testing and as a rule it is a frustrating. Ateme team was allowed to use public forum for commercial beta testing and it is something I also don't quite understand. Of course I have no choice but to simply protest as it is admin's privilege to give such rights to various individuals and groups but for my part I think Ateme group had enough resources to open their forum and discuss such stuff as much as they like. This way, ordinary mortals only get frustrated.:rolleyes: I think that this discussion as a general could be easily moved to Forum/Site Sggestions or General discussions or something like that- I think it deserves some discussions.

[dragongodz]

lighty - if you had said "can all discussion of the early release versions be moved to another forum so we who dont have it yet are not frustrated" i would have understood. you didnt. you said
Why don't you close this forum?
thats a completely different thing and an overreaction. why not just say to jdobbs "hey if we cant have it at the same time then you should stop releasing anymore versions period" ?

Also, I haven't thrown any crap on him.
really ? and exactly how do you think having to read such rubbish makes jdobbs feel when he was just trying to thank those that activly contributed and not sat there taking ?

I guess you're the one lucky enough to be in the country that Paypal have business to? It is easy to maintain moral high-ground when you're in position to have a choice.
yes actually i do believe paypal does work here. dont know the ins and outs though because i dont use it. thats right i havent donated. i also havent done the kind of testing that other guys on here have done. i wish i had time to but i currently dont so i am thankful for all the hard work these guys are putting in so when i do a lot of bugs etc will be already fixed. its not moral high-ground, its called a little bit of respect.

but in a way they consider it a buy so it is a sort of semi-shareware deal in my eyes.
a person can not be responsible for others opinions no matter how wrong. so you can think of it that way all you like but that doesnt make it so. :)

[jdobbs]

My question: Instead of whining, why don't you ask for a copy? Answer: Because you like whining.

[lighty]

@dragondz
OK, I admit that the topic subject was poorly chosen but it is simply a matter of wrongly expresing myself.

Actualy I don't know how that makes him feel because I'm not a mind reader. I guess he feels awkward because he tried to thank ppl who suported him but the choice he made discriminates some ppl. That's just my guess, of course.

You're talking about respect, then I am merely stating that if such closed-type beta tests are to be made, then they have to be in closed-type forums separated from Doom9. That is of course my opinion and I never said I am stating the absolute truth.



@jdobbs
I don't like whining at all, in fact I post on all forums I participate on, only if I feel I have something important to say. Now that you said one only has to ask for a copy (if I understood your statement correctly), then why going into 'VIP mode' in the first place? You could simply thank ppl by scrolling their names in the About or something like that. I am sure that would make them feel proud if that's what's this all about. It is my opinion that you had a conflict of interests, you wanted to keep DVD-RB freeware but at the same time you wanted to thank ppl who donated (or if you were to get into 'devil mode' I could speculate that you wanted to get some of your effort compensated). There is nothing wrong with your intentions and believe it or not I do support you on both fronts... BUT... The way you did it was somewhat awkward and IMO it could have been done more elegantly.

I also must say that you put me in awkward situation, because now it seems you intended to give copies to all who asked in the first place... or did you just say that now to make my arguments bogus? I guess I will never know now. Maybe I am disappointed in human nature in general, but I am more inclined to believe in the latter explanation. However, if former explanation is true then I do apologise for my ignorance. The only problem is that I will never know for sure, isn't that so?

Anyway- my protest is not directed to you (and I said what I honestly think, whatever ppl might think of me so I will not make this more personal) but to the Doom9's policy of letting closed-circle (and even comercial) beta testing on his forum. He is God Almighty of this forum so whatever he decide I could only protest to, but I would honestly like to hear his thoughts on the matter because for long time I thought the nature of this forum was more inclined to open sourced and non commercial stuff development. :confused:

[dragongodz]

OK, I admit that the topic subject was poorly chosen but it is simply a matter of wrongly expresing myself.
from an overreaction to an understatement. :D

I don't know how that makes him feel because I'm not a mind reader
no but you can guess at a possible feelings if you consider how you would feel. i know i would feel pissed off spending all my time giving something for free to then be given that sort of attitude.

The way you did it was somewhat awkward and IMO it could have been done more elegantly.
hmm pot calling kettle black ? what you did here was hardly "elegant" was it ? you could have easily PM'ed jdobbs about it first and if not satisfied PM'ed Doom9.

because now it seems you intended to give copies to all who asked in the first place... or did you just say that now to make my arguments bogus? I guess I will never know now. Maybe I am disappointed in human nature in general, but I am more inclined to believe in the latter explanation.
or maybe he meant long time members of the Doom9 forum who have contributed to the forum could have asked and may have got a copy. only jdobbs can say.
as for human nature, well that is rich. you get a program for free and then complain if others who have contributed in some way get a version slightly sooner.

I thought the nature of this forum was more inclined to open sourced and non commercial stuff development.
it is but that does not exclude talking about closed source or commercial development. DVD-RB is closed source but it is also free so it falls in the non-commercial development catagory doesnt it ? oh wait you think its semi-shareware when it isnt. :)

as i said if you have a problem with how things are then PM Doom9. calling for a whole section to be removed because you feel discriminated against is out of line.

this topic is now dead for me as i have said all i should need to.

[candsh]

Very early in the development of this program, I saw the potential for a really exciting new way of backing up videos. I wanted to encourage jdobbs to continue with the development even though I had never made a successful back-up, really hit and miss until we got into the late beta 50's and early 60's. I found out that My existing computer had known issues with CCE. I never really thought he would be able to do it! I donated anyway!

Now we all have a really wonderful tool, I have a new computer and finally consistently successful results. I am able to use CCE for the first time!

I am sure there are more ways to donate than just through paypal in your country. If paypal is the only way to do this, find someone that will make the donation for you and send them a money order for it. There is a provision in paypal for a message to the receiving party to let them know where it is coming from.

Where there is a will there is a way!

[jdobbs]

forum was more inclined to open sourced and non commercial stuff development I guess you mean like Scenarist, DVD Maestro, TMPGEnc, CCE, all the commercial codecs, and the couple of hundred other commercial packages that are discussed here... of course DVD-RB remains free...

Give it up.

[Rockas]

@lighty

I've promised to myself that I wouldn't write here anything else until you answer to my question on my first reply... why didn't you?

Have you read my signature?... well at this point I think you're Falled.

Forgive me if I'm being rude but you make me loose my temper 'cause people like you remind me "vampires" sucking' off the "blood" of other's work.

As I said before... it's not all about money... you had your chance like many others... what did you do?... nothing, and now you complain about something that there's no reason to complain about.

- Is it jdobbs fault that no matter how good a program is, only a few contribute with anything?

- Have you seen how many times DVD-RB has been downloaded, from this forum and in other downloads sites? and contributions?!?!? - I repeat 'cause I think you just don't get it - contributions = donations AND HELP ON TESTING, BUG REPORTS, ETC.

All I want from you is the answer to my first question
In your country, isn't allowed to work a little too?

PS. I said "forgive me if I'm being rude" but forget it don't loose your time forgiving me... save it to forgive yourself.

[Lazza]

Just cannot see what the problem is really, I for one do not mind one little bit at having to wait say a month before a release goes public. I'm just grateful we have this fantastic tool in the first place and all the hard work jdobbs and team have put into this project. ;)

Sure I'd like the latest release at the same time but it's only fair that those who've put so much time and money into this project get something back from it in the form of having an update earlier.

What did you hope to achieve by posting this thread in the first place? Sorry but I really do not understand. :confused:




Time for a lock to appear methinks for the sanity of all. ;)

[Boulder]

Is this thread just another case of "Gimme all and give it right now" so common among people these days?

I can't see why a close beta test couldn't be discussed here, at least the people who don't have the latest version yet will be able to follow the development closely.

[PiXuS]

Originally posted by lighty
2. I am from a country that Paypal doesn't accept cards from, so I feel left out and it seems to me that new versions of DVD-RB are reserved for the US and EU countries only

[snip]


That is something I don't really understand in your logic. Paypal is not available from your country so you reason you are indirectly discriminated by the creator of DVD-RB because you don't have the option of contributing financially.

Instead, why don't you contact Paypal and let them know how you feel about not being able to use their service? How is jdobbs supposed to deal with this matter?

- jdobbs: "hmm.. I just received an email from this guy in Albania. I will cross-check with my discrimanatory database... (click click click)... hmmm this is a Paypal discriminated country! I'll attach the latest beta to this poor guy email"

Nah.

PiXuS

[wmansir]

I'll repeat again that the original posters point is a reasonable issue and it is being addressed. Unfortunately the tone of the original post is a bit hostile and others have responded in kind which has derailed this thread.

It's also unfortunate that Doom9 is away right now and is unreachable for at least a week and possibly two. There is no point fighting about it in the mean time so I'm going to close this thread.