Sigma chip-set Information - High Def [Archive]

SeeMoreDigital

17th October 2004, 22:26

The idea behind this thread is to compile a list of all the stand-alone players known to use high-def/res Sigma chip-sets.

As you can see there's hardly any information here at all. But with your help... hopefully things will improve...

Please note:
The information listed below identifies the known "maximum" capabilities of the chip-set and has been compiled from various sources. It therefore does not necessarily mean that your player will be able to support all of them.

Here is what is known so far: -

SIGMA EM862xL CHIP-SET RANGE

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/EM8620L/images/EM8620L_series_A.jpg

Web site link: http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8620Lseries.htm

EM8620L Networked DVD Player Development Kit

Web site link: http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/DVD8620LNET.htm

Basic (Non MPEG-2/DVD) Player Functionality
Supports: -
Video Decs: MPEG-4 with B-VOP (with/without packed bit-stream), 1 warp-point GMC, Qpel
Video Decs: WMV9 (Windows Media® Video 9)
Audio Decs: MP3 (MPEG-1/2 Layers 1, 2 and 3), AC3 (Dolby® Digital)
MPEG-2 (BC multi-channel Layers 1, 2 and 3), AAC-LC (MPEG-2/4), WAV
Audio Decs: WMA9 (Windows Media® Audio 9), WMA9 Pro.
Containers: AVI and MP4 (Audio: MP3, M4A, WAV, AC3 and WMA)
Various: PAR/DAR signalling MPEG-4 within .AVI and .MP4 container.

Does not support: -
Video Decs: 3 warp-point GMC

* Based on using the DivX codec. Confirmation with other codecs is required.

Players/Model Numbers using this Chip-Set
Look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=646040#post646040)
Players/Devices using Sigma's EM8620L Chip-set
Look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=646040#post646040)

Cheers

AllTimeSToneD

18th October 2004, 00:33

Here's another one.

http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA

and guess what

http://www.iodata.com/images/avlp2_rear_port.jpg

SeeMoreDigital

18th October 2004, 11:22

From the information provided by IO DATA. At least we now know that an HD Mpeg4 encoded stream tops out with an pixel frame size of 1280x720.

However, there does not seem to be any information regarding maximum Mpeg1/2 or WMV9 pixel frame sizes.

There also appears to be some conflicting info. The IO DATA spec sheet it gives the following information: -

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/4201/02_AVI_Specification.gif

Note that Mpeg4 (DivX and XviD) bitrate speeds are limited to just 1.5Mbps (1536Kbps). This is far too low for high-def (1280x720) content, which requires a min of 3000-3500Kbps.

Also, the 2GB AVI file limitation is still there!

And if my eyes deceive me... there's no mention of MP4 container support. Plus the DVI output and 6Ch analogue audio outputs have been removed :confused:

Cheers

Soulhunter

18th October 2004, 16:42

What, 1280x720 @ 1.5Mbps and 2GB limitation ???

If this is true, its imo a unusable piece of crap... :sly:

Bye

castellanos

18th October 2004, 16:44

Agree! I don't see any good improvement on that chipset. :angry:

LordRPI

18th October 2004, 18:41

Hey, just so you guys know... I've seen DivX HD certified players play at bitrates much higher than that. I'm going to check up on this because it doesn't seem completely kosher.

LordRPI

18th October 2004, 18:48

Sorry for the double post.

We tested at least 8Mbps DivX HD and have had no problems at all; We require that SD players are able to play back files at 4Mbps.

We're working with IO-Data to clarify this.

Soulhunter

18th October 2004, 19:04

Sounds better, nevertheless it should support UDF/4GB+ content !!!

-> And does 8Mbps mean "short peaks" or "static bitrate" ???

LordRPI

18th October 2004, 19:41

Average bitrate.

We've had no problems playing back DivX HD trailers have around 4Mbps average bitrate, and has a peak of 30Mbps over three seconds.

Don't worry, I've seen these in action. They're pretty sweet :)

Soulhunter

18th October 2004, 20:41

Hmm, 8Mbps static bitrate sounds damn good... :)

Remains:

- No UDF support

- The 2GB limitation

- Whats with mp4 support...

- Does it support HE-AAC ???

- Only 192kbps for audio streams... :scared:

EDIT: Hey, you have changed 8Mbps into 4Mbps !?!

Some of my 1024x576 encodes are "slightly" over 4000kbps... :(

Bye

SeeMoreDigital

18th October 2004, 21:14

I agree with you Soulhunter,

It's pretty piss poor... lets hope it's just a big typo!

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

18th October 2004, 21:27

There also appears to be a "wireless" version of the IO DATA player - the: I-O DATA AVLP2/DVDG.

And this one contains an DVI output connector: -

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/808/IO_DATA_wireless_player_rear.jpg

Cheers

manono

19th October 2004, 08:30

Here's some more information on the I/O Data player(s). I asked them some questions a while back and got an e-mail reply today:

We are planning to release the English one (AVLP2/DVDLA) in Nov 2004
(USA/Canada) by below USD249.00 as MSPR. For EU market, we are
planning to release it after USA/Canada/Korea.

> Where will I be able to buy it? Only directly through you,
You can buy it from our web site.

> perhaps also in stores, such as Best Buy or Circuit City?
Also you can do at these retail shops.

> Related to that, will it be region-free, or can it be made region-free?
Sorry... Our USA version is "1" fixed.
> And will it be able to play both NTSC and PAL DVDs?
Our EU version can support it, but not USA one.

> Will it have external subtitle support for MPEG-4? And if so, for what formats? SRT only?
Sure. We checked SRT and DivX Subtitle. If you want more information,
please let me know what file you are interesting.

> And the information isn't clear on this.
> I think it will support XviD and DivX, but will it also support DivX 3.11?

XViD is supported.
DivX3.11, 4, 5, and HD are supported.

> If you are interested in promoting the Linkplayer2,

Yes, I'm interesting. If you need more infromation, please don't
hesitate to ask me. Well, now too early, but after I update any, let you
know absolutely. We'll appreciate you will keep in touch with I-O DATA.
Thank you so much.
1. I wonder why the US version won't be region free with the ability to play PAL DVDs, since this ability is built into the chipset.

2. Anyone know what a DivX subtitle is? idx/sub?

3. Where he quoted the first part of a longer paragraph from me, "> If you are interested in promoting the Linkplayer2,", I was inviting him to come to this forum to provide information and to field questions. I couldn't make much sense of his reply, though. But he seemed a friendly enough chap. Maybe I'll try again. Or maybe some others interested in the player can drop them an e-mail.

Wilbert

19th October 2004, 15:47

> Will it have external subtitle support for MPEG-4? And if so, for what formats? SRT only?
Sure. We checked SRT and DivX Subtitle. If you want more information,
please let me know what file you are interesting.
I see something very interesting. Subtitle support :cool: I guess this will be the first one with subtitle support!

Perhaps you can ask those guys the following:

0) What's DivX Subtitle?

1) Does it support OpenDML avi (avi>2gig / as questioned here)? (I guess not)

2) Does it support AVI + AC3? (I guess not)

3) Does it support AVI + AAC? (I guess not)

4) Does it support MPEG2 + AAC? (I guess so)

5) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 ogg)? (I guess so)

6) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 AAC)? (I guess so)

7) Does it support OGM (DivX/XviD with 5.1 ogg/AAC and srt)? (I guess so)

I have to admit that the spec sheet SMD posted is very clear :confused:

SeeMoreDigital

19th October 2004, 16:39

Originally posted by Wilbert
...I have to admit that the spec sheet SMD posted is very clear :confused: Yes, the information is very disappointing!

You would think by now the manufacturers could present their player specifications in a more detailed and user friendly way!

This thing about "so called" DivX subtitles, has also appeared in some Philips DVP6xx player documentation: -

http://img95.exs.cx/img95/8605/Philips_Subs_Instructions.png

Maybe those kindly people over at DivX have "offered" to put their name to all .sub, .srt and .smi subtitle formats... You know, to avoid confusion ;)

Cheers

Karyudo

19th October 2004, 23:38

I have contacts in Japan (family and friends) that could almost certainly secure some Japanese-spec AVLP1 and AVLP2 players. Reading the Japanese page, it seems to suggest the Japanese version can be made region-free (?). The AVLP2 also features wireless LAN capabilities.

Anyone (besides me) interested?

No, I wouldn't be price gouging, but yes, it would cost somewhat more than waiting around for IOData US or EU to get stock in (shipping ain't cheap).

Just an idea...

Wilbert

2nd November 2004, 21:46

@SMD and others,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=459759&pagenumber=4

scroll down to my post. Could anyone of you provide TUFU (who has the player) a bunch of samples? I don't have much time to do it myself ...

SeeMoreDigital

2nd November 2004, 23:05

I'll see what I can do!

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

5th November 2004, 16:58

Just to let you guys know, I've just made some high-def "Test Cards" files available.

Here's a copy of what I posted on the AVS forum: - Hello everyone,

As promised I have managed to generate some high-def "Test Cards" for you to try.

This first batch of 3No files are as follows: -

1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AC3 in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in AVI
1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AAC in MP4

All of which can be downloaded here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/1280x720_Mpeg4_ Encodes.zip).
Cheers

Wilbert

6th November 2004, 18:53

Great work! (Only the first one '1280x720 PAL Mpeg4 + 6Ch AC3 in AVI' is working ...)

AAC is LC? Please, don't forget the OGM/srt and OGM/ogg5.1 :)

SeeMoreDigital

6th November 2004, 19:28

Originally posted by Wilbert
AAC is LC? Please, don't forget the OGM/srt and OGM/ogg5.1 :) Yes... the 6 channel AAC stream is LC :)

I find it strange it does not work. Because even with my old Sigma chip-set (which is 2Ch only), 6Ch AAC-LC streams play, but are obviously, not correctly mapped....

Anyway, I'll provide files with 2Ch AAC-LC audio. Hopefully they'll work... But if it turns out that player doesn't spin MP4... there's no way I'll buy one!

With regard to muxing stuff into OGM, I'm afraid it's over to somebody else for this implementation!

Cheers

Wilbert

7th November 2004, 14:14

@SMD,

About XviD+AAC+Subs.mp4 ...

What do I need to install to see the subs (playing with WMP6.4) (of course I have DVobSub installed)?

SeeMoreDigital

8th November 2004, 19:07

Sorry for the delay Wilbert, I don't know how I managed to miss your post.

As far as I'm aware, only Nero's Showtime player can display the subtitles.... But maybe bond knows of a way around this

Cheers

Wilbert

9th November 2004, 10:48

@SMD,

Thanks!

Btw, it doesn't seem to play my clip with subs 'SMD(avi_ac3 with sub)'.

Do you have other suggestions about a clip with subs (or any idea how subs are supported)? I will send him a few ogm files tonight, but I don't have any hope that it can play ogm+srt.

SeeMoreDigital

9th November 2004, 13:07

Hi Wilbert,

I really don't do much with subtitles... but I know bond has been experimenting with different implementations.

Cheers

Wilbert

10th November 2004, 16:23

Regarding subs:

http://forums.divx.com/viewtopic.php?topic=61648&forum=21

I just contacted IO Data today, and they still doesn't have solution for file mode subtitles, neither for AVLP1 nor AVLP2.
Therefore, in the AVLP2 manual and in the new firmware 05-65-040409-01-IOD-108-000 for AVLP1 description on IOData website, says that sound and subtitle switching for DIVX is now supported.
They told me that it is supported but not ready and possible, as long as the DIVX specification doesn't support it.
So we have to wait until the subtitle standard is included on the DIVX specification.
Pretty vague :)

I take it they are talking about internal subs here (subtitle support is the job of the container, not the codec ..., so I don't understand what this has to do with the DIVX specification). I will mux some with avimux and report back ...

Doom9

16th November 2004, 20:30

btw, there's an online shop link on io-data's site but I don't even get to the price info. How much is the player actually and is it orderable on the US online shop (http://shop.iodata.com/shopping/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA)?

SeeMoreDigital

16th November 2004, 21:00

Originally posted by Doom9
btw, there's an online shop link on io-data's site but I don't even get to the price info. How much is the player actually and is it orderable on the US online shop (http://shop.iodata.com/shopping/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA)? A few AVS forum members living in the US have managed to get hold of the AVLP2/FDVDLA player.

Personally though, I would wait for AVLP2/DVDG, or which ever referenced player is released with an DVI output.

Cheers

Doom9

16th November 2004, 22:31

well.. what's a DVI output good for unless you have a TV screen with a corresponding input, or a projector. I have neither, and I don't particularly feel the need to connect a standalone player to my PC screen.. my PC is much more capable at feeding the display with movie content. What's the price for the unit? I'm considering getting one.. I could use a 2nd DivX capable standalone in this household.

SeeMoreDigital

16th November 2004, 23:02

I've just sent a PM to a guy over on the AVS forum called Tom Roper (from Denver), who's just received one of these players.

Hopefully, he'll get back to me with the information you need.

In the meantime here's the post he made regarding his purchase: -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4597521#post4597521

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

17th November 2004, 11:05

Tom has reported back... The price is: $249 U.S. dollars

Cheers

Doom9

17th November 2004, 19:36

thanks. that's the price written in the FAQ which I found earlier today.

I came up with a reason for the DVI: in order to get a quality impression, my PC flatscreen with a native resolution of 1920x1200 would be quite ideal.. but until we get HDTV sets here in Europe I'm pretty sure players will be able to handle H.264 as well..

SeeMoreDigital

17th November 2004, 21:02

Originally posted by Doom9
I came up with a reason for the DVI: in order to get a quality impression, my PC flatscreen with a native resolution of 1920x1200 would be quite ideal.. but until we get HDTV sets here in Europe I'm pretty sure players will be able to handle H.264 as well.. 1920x1200.. that's high :)

As far as I'm aware there is only one 1920x1080 high-def TV display available over here in Euroland. It's made by Sharp and is in their Titanium Aquos range of LCD screens. Top of the range is the 45" LC-45G1E (http://www.lcd4u.nl/item1382.htm).

It's spec looks bloody good. But at around £6,500 it should.

A few months ago I wrote about the Hitachi Platara range of high-def plasma panels (1024x1024). And late last month I managed to get my hands on one for a couple of weeks...

It was very, very good screen indeed. Even when used for displaying every day computer graphics (not tested with games). And at around £2,300 it represents good value for money... Well for this month anyway ;)

Cheers

LordRPI

17th November 2004, 23:48

RE High Res Displays: http://www.apple.com/displays/
2560 x 1600 optimal resolution
I think you can get these in the EU
But you need 2 DVI connections to satisfy the beast...

/mac zealot mode

I'm really interested in testing out this player myself. The buy link for it is blocked out unless you have a US IP, and somehow it catches my local 192.168... IP and tells me that the site is available to the US only.

Edit: DDL

SeeMoreDigital

18th November 2004, 00:21

I've read/seen these displays... and although the quality of the displayed image is truly incredible.... the largest display (currently 30") just scrapes into "family" viewing adequacy ;)

When it comes to displaying video. I like to spend my money on equipment that is a little more justifiable and flexible!

They look very cool though, just like most Apple gear.

Cheers

LordRPI

18th November 2004, 02:31

Yeah, hehe, I was in San Francisco for the launch at Apple's World Wide Developer's conference... where they unveiled their H.264 codec too. I'd consider buying a 30" if I had the money, but having to buy a special graphics card to display it surely doesn't help the price. Last time I used one, I got lost looking at an excel spreadsheet :eek:

Doom9

18th November 2004, 19:07

if it weren't for the high pricetag and the limited selection of GFX cards that go with it, I'd have gotten that display a long time ago. Hopefully, dual link DVI will soon become the standard.

Shinigami-Sama

30th November 2004, 19:57

the cards are coming out :D:D
pci-x
dual pci-x mobo are out
and they;re getting cheper :D:D
hazaa!
the wonders of techonology

trbarry

2nd December 2004, 16:29

Maybe a bit late to the discussion but my linkplayer did arrive last night.

I played a couple of my standard Xvid/ac3 encodings over the (wired only) lan, including one at 720p though I didn't check the bit rate. But they worked fine. I haven't tried any WMV9 or DVD's yet

I'm still having some trouble trying to download the firmware update.

More later.

- Tom

SeeMoreDigital

2nd December 2004, 17:32

That's great new Tom...

I'm sure some of us on this forum will keep you busy with our "test requests" :)

Cheers

Soulhunter

2nd December 2004, 17:44

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital

I'm sure some of us on this forum will keep you busy with our "test requests" :)

Would like to know if it plays my "1024x576 + Soulhunters v3 @ Q2 + 1/1/1 B-VOPs" encodes... :D

Bye

SeeMoreDigital

2nd December 2004, 18:43

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Would like to know if it plays my "1024x576 + Soulhunters v3 @ Q2 + 1/1/1 B-VOPs" encodes... :D Well...

I know for a fact that 1024x576 Mpeg4 SP encodes with 2Ch MP3 and 6Ch AC3 audio in AVI, work. So do 1024x576 Mpeg4 SP encodes with 2Ch AAC-LC audio in MP4 :)

As far as I know, Mpeg4 ASP encodes have not been tested.... so bring it on I say...

...As long as Tom is up for it, of course ;)

Cheers

trbarry

2nd December 2004, 20:36

Would like to know if it plays my "1024x576 + Soulhunters v3 @ Q2 + 1/1/1 B-VOPs" encodes...

Dunno, but I'd be willing to try it. Is that one of the test samples posted above somewhere?

But I can at least say that the player doesn't seem to need any standard resolutions or anything. It was fine on a 960x528 Noir ep with ac3 I tried. I use that 1/4 rez HD resolution a lot for 1080i material that doesn't have enough detail to justify more.

The q2 I can't guarantee. I've been encoding most HDTV clips in Xvid CBR for the last couple years just so I wouldn't have to deal with CPU problems on peak bit rate surges, playing on computer. But that means I (knock wood) expect most of my own encodings to hopefully work on this player.

I'm at work now anyway but the first thing I have to deal with before testing the player limitations is to get around the problem of the firmware download. There is probably some parm in my cable gateway that's allowing the linkplayer to talk to my PC's but not the Internet.

- Tom

SeeMoreDigital

2nd December 2004, 21:03

Originally posted by trbarry
...But I can at least say that the player doesn't seem to need any standard resolutions or anything. It was fine on a 960x528 Noir ep with ac3 I tried. I use that 1/4 rez HD resolution a lot for 1080i material that doesn't have enough detail to justify more. Yes... in this regard the I-O DATA player, or should I say, the Sigma EM8620L chip-set, reacts in much the same way as my Xcard.... Nice ;)

Cheers