How to deal with telecined stuff? 24->25->TC->30

[Jedd]

It has been asked few times, but I couldnt figure an answer from the topics I found. :stupid:
I have a movie to backup which is
a) quite noisy
b) telecined from 25fps to 30fps
I telecide it down to 25 fps to be able to apply a denoiser.

mpeg2source("H:\NEWS\MESTO1\D2VAVS\V01.D2V",idct=7)
Telecide(1,blend=false)
decimate(cycle=18).decimate(cycle=17).decimate(cycle=16)
before=Crop(2,2,716,476, align=true).Lanczos4Resize(720,480)
firstpass=RemoveDirt(before)
RemoveDirt(before, neighbour=firstpass)
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=false)

And I have to say it looks much better then the original.
But as I could expect the result stays at 30fps, while I have 25 at hand, so the video runs before audio.
What is the right way to resolve this? TC it back, change frame_rate or there are some other places in Rebuilder to play with?
:confused:

[Jedd]

Any ideas?

[Jedd]

http://fool.exler.ru/sm/val.gif http://fool.exler.ru/sm/att.gif

[TheSeeker]

Your going to need to demux the movie into an audio and video stream then you will have to use some program (not sure which) that has a time warp function that will actually very slightly slow down or speed up the audio so it fits with the new video. then remux. sorry i cant be more helpful.. i know this is one way but to do this but not sure what programs to use.

[dannyv]

Originally posted by Jedd
I telecide it down to 25 fps to be able to apply a denoiser.


I'm not sure if I'm going in the right direction with this answer or if its even correct. But I beleave that you can add a denoiser via RB-OPT and not even have to telecine it down. I can't really give you more info on it but maybe someone will read this and expand on it.

@theseeker

You seem to know a bit more then I do about RB-OPT. I only just recently looked at it and thought I saw a denoiser (anti noise) under the cce settings button. Am I correct?

[Jedd]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Your going to need to demux the movie into an audio and video stream then you will have to use some program (not sure which) that has a time warp function that will actually very slightly slow down or speed up the audio so it fits with the new video. then remux. sorry i cant be more helpful.. i know this is one way but to do this but not sure what programs to use.
Demuxing is not a problem, but 15% slowing of the audio seems quite drastic to me. Also, DVD RB wants to have it all and encodes 100% of the length - making last 15% of the movie as a still frame (just repeating the last frame), wasting this way space and bitrate.
I've tried to stick ChangeFPS(25) at the end, but the result has too much blur.

Originally posted by dannyv

But I beleave that you can add a denoiser via RB-OPT and not even have to telecine it down.
Sounds really interesting, because I had an impression that you cannot denoise interlaced stuff. Maybe someone can comment on this?

[TheSeeker]

OH you can absolutely denoise interlaced content. Just have to make sure you have the correct filter. I believe FluxsmoothT is one that works with interlaced content. Just do a search for interlaced AND filters or something like that.

[Boulder]

Maybe RePAL is of some use when trying to restore the original content.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48401&highlight=repal

[manono]

Hi-

I just happened to be passing through and don't know a thing about Rebuilder. I do, however, know something about IVTC.

But as I could expect the result stays at 30fps, while I have 25 at hand, so the video runs before audio.

"IVTCing" to 25fps the way you did doesn't change the length of the movie, and the audio does not go out of synch.

You were a bit unclear about the source of the movie. If it's an NTSC DVD, then it's 29.97fps which you've "IVTC'd" to 24.975fps. If it were I doing it, and wanted to make an NTSC DVD from the result, I'd then slow both the video and audio to 23.976fps (the video by adding AssumeFPS(23.976) to the .avs script), and then run Pulldown on it afterwards. That way you'd get a progressively encoded NTSC DVD out of it. This will result in a 4% slowing of the video and audio, but nothing too serious.

Boulder's suggestion in the post before mine might be helpful. Are you sure this thing isn't field blended from a bad PAL to NTSC conversion? If it is blended, then RePAL or Restore24 would be much better solutions than Telecide/Decimate.

[Jedd]

Originally posted by manono
But as I could expect the result stays at 30fps, while I have 25 at hand, so the video runs before audio.
"IVTCing" to 25fps the way you did doesn't change the length of the movie, and the audio does not go out of synch.


Well, it doesn't change the length of the movie, that’s true. BUT, the last 15% of the movie is stuffed with the garbage. I mean out of original 3000 frames I get 2500 frames of the movie and 500 still frames at the end. The sound is strethced over 3000 frames, so effectively video runs before the audio. This is probably a bug in the DVD Rebuilder or a mistake in my script.

Originally posted by manono

You were a bit unclear about the source of the movie. If it's an NTSC DVD, then it's 29.97fps which you've "IVTC'd" to 24.975fps. If it were I doing it, and wanted to make an NTSC DVD from the result, I'd then slow both the video and audio to 23.976fps (the video by adding AssumeFPS(23.976) to the .avs script), and then run Pulldown on it afterwards. That way you'd get a progressively encoded NTSC DVD out of it. This will result in a 4% slowing of the video and audio, but nothing too serious.

Boulder's suggestion in the post before mine might be helpful. Are you sure this thing isn't field blended from a bad PAL to NTSC conversion? If it is blended, then RePAL or Restore24 would be much better solutions than Telecide/Decimate.
manono, your help is much appreciated!
The source is PAL telecined to NTSC.
I've tried AssumeFPS(23.976) on it without any visible results. ChangeFPS works but produces a lot of ghosting.
I will give a try to RePal, but I'm afraid I'll get the same results as above.

[manono]

Hi-

I get 2500 frames of the movie and 500 still frames at the end.

If you're planning on making an NTSC DVD out of this, then it (of course) has to be at 29.97fps. Maybe Rebuilder, knowing that, pads out the frames to make it 29.97fps again. Your 24.975 IVTC'd video is no good at all for NTSC (or any other kind) of DVD. And that's why I suggested you slow it down to 23.976fps and then apply Pulldown afterwards, and why I suggested you also slow the audio. The video portion could perhaps be handled better directly in CCE.

But like I said, I know nothing about DVD Rebuilder. The last I heard (admittedly some time back), it didn't allow IVTC of any kind. This effectively cripples it for backing up and improving many NTSC DVDs. I've seen a few DVDs that had been telecined prior to encoding, or were the product of bad PAL to NTSC conversions, and then run through Rebuilder and deinterlaced, and they looked like pure garbage. The encoders didn't know what they were doing.

To find out if your DVD is the product of one such bad PAL to NTSC conversion, is blended, and therefore might benefit from RePAL, put on a Smart Bobber, such as KernelBob(Order=1), or TDeint(Order=1,Mode=1), and step through the fields to look for blending/ghosting.

You posted your script at the beginning, and if frames are being added at the end, it's being done by Rebuilder, and not by that script. But I didn't understand all of that script. Why can't you just use RemoveDirt by itself?

mpeg2source("H:\NEWS\MESTO1\D2VAVS\V01.D2V",idct=7)
Telecide(1,blend=false)
decimate(cycle=18).decimate(cycle=17).decimate(cycle=16)
Crop(2,2,716,476, align=true).Lanczos4Resize(720,480)
RemoveDirt()
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=false)

Must be some reason I don't understand. Something to do with the Neighbor variable, I guess.