Kill Playback on Titles using PgcEdit

[2COOL]

HTML guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/2cool/kill_playback/kill_playback_titles.htm) hosted by r0lZ.

10/11/2004: PgcEdit v.0.3.5 used at this time.

10/12/2004: Additional disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play. :(

LinkTopCell
LinkNextCell
LinkPrevCell
LinkCN
LinkPGN
LinkPTT
10/15/2004: Another disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Post Commands, you may experience endless playback (looping) on your Title after Kill Playback.

LinkTopPGC
LinkPGCN (Link to same PGC)
JumpVTS_TT

[jeanl]

2COOL, that's pretty neat!
Could you possibly remind me why it's a good idea to leave the postcommand there (even though, supposedly, playback will never occur)?
Jeanl

[jeanl]

@2COOL
Never mind, I found your explanation:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79853&perpage=20&pagenumber=5

Jeanl

[2COOL]

There are more disclaimers to Kill Playback.

If you have any of these present in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play. :(
LinkTopCell
LinkNextCell
LinkCN
LinkPGN
LinkPTT

[jeanl]

Yes, I realized that when I read your post!
What do you think we should do in such cases? replace the link by a goto?
Jeanl

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jeanl
replace the link by a goto? That's what jsoto was thinking about in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=547862#post547862).

[jeanl]

OK I see. I haven't seen a single case of that happening, but then again I haven't backed up that many DVDs...
Jeanl

[blutach]

Folks,

I am not convinced that Killing Playback (or as jsoto/2COOL say, changing post in pre commands) is wholly a good thing.

As jeannl has pointed out - in several of her posts - if playback is killed, the GP Registers may not be correct. This would be especially true if BREAKs are converted to GOTOs.

I have had this experience recently - I blanked a lotta rubbish from the VMGM domain using VOBBlanker. The menu came up OK but the DVD didn't play.

Tried again, without having pre commands turned into posts and it worked beautifully. Of course, the (now blank) VOBs played (for 1/2 second), but big deal.

I think this is the big feature of VOBBlanker - the ability to blank cells, without affecting either the disk's structure or GP registers. Maybe VOBBlanker should have it disabled by default.

Comments?

[jsoto]

Each DVD has its own tricks...

I agree there are some cases where the final DVD does not work (or does not work properly), but I'm still convinced the defaults in VobBlanker are the right ones (the most common).

jsoto

[jeanl]

@Blutach,
As jeannl has pointed out - in several of her posts - if playback is killed, the GP Registers may not be correct. This would be especially true if BREAKs are converted to GOTOs.
wait wait, I'm not sure I ever said that! I think I have said that if you skip playback on a PGC entirely (i.e. skipping precommands, postcommands, and cell commands, for example using a jump) then you might miss some register initializations.
However, what vobblanker and pgcedit do is different. They convert the postcommands into precommands, and change breaks to goto. The result is that in the absence of cell commands, the pgc does exactly what it did before: the same commands are executed in the same order. The difference is the PGC "exits" (goes where it normally would) before any video is played back. I think the whole idea is due to 2COOL, kudos to him, that's very clever :).
Now, if there are cell commands, that's different because these won't be executed (because no playback -> no cell command). Also, if there are link commands in the precommands, playback might actually not be killed (but that's not what's happening in your case).

However, vobblanker is smart about cell commands and it gives you a choice to kill or not kill if there are cell commands. In your case, I would definitely check whether the PGC that you killed had cell commands. If not, this would mean that there's something broken with vobblanker's kill playback. Also, I would definitely try to do the same kill playback using pgcedit. If that works, then there's a problem in vobblanker.

2COOL, can you confirm that? If there are no postcommands, killed or not killed playback should leave GPRMS, SPRMS in exactly the same state, right?

Jean
P.S. I'm a he, jean is a male name where I come from ;)

[jsoto]

@Blutach
In your case, I would definitely check whether the PGC that you killed had cell commands. If not, this would mean that there's something broken with vobblanker's kill playback. Also, I would definitely try to do the same kill playback using pgcedit. If that works, then there's a problem in vobblanker.
Please check and give me the conclusions.

jsoto
PSI'm a he... I was going to ask... We have not many girls here, I think.

[blutach]

My apologies Jean - I didn't suspect a French name (I just saw California, :)).

I will have to have a look at the burned disk and see if there are cell commands. But I guess that is the point - if no BREAK, then no cell commands can execute, possibly screwing up the GPRMs.

[jeanl]

or the entire navigation if it's a link...
Jeanl

[blutach]

@jsoto and jeanl

I've looked at the cell commands in VMGM and each cell only has a LinkTail PGC, which simply links to the Post commands.

@jsoto - Are the Post Commands still present under VOBBlanker (a la PGCEdit?) If so, I'm not sure what went wrong.

Regards

[jsoto]

Are the Post Commands still present under VOBBlanker (a la PGCEdit?) If so, I'm not sure what went wrong. They should be there, but changed into precommands.
jsoto

[jeanl]

@blutach,
You should definitely get to the bottom of that. You're the second user who's encountered a problem of this nature (I'm trying to find the post), and I'm pretty sure things should definitely be OK in the case you describe. I'm pretty sure vobblanker leaves the postcommand there anyway (but in any case that's only useful if there's a link in the precommands and playback isn't actually killed).
Here's what you could do:
- Check that indeed playback is broken, narrow that down to 1 PGC being killed and breaking the DVD.
- Then post back the precommand/postcommand/cellcommand from pgcedit in the original PGC and the killed PGC.
We should be able to figure out what went wrong!
I know it's a bit of work (including burning if playback only breaks on your standalone) but it's worth it :).

Jeanl

[blutach]

@jsoto

The Posts changing into Pre commands is one thing, but if, for some reason, the cell plays and there are no post commands left, then problems may occur.

In PGCEdit, r0lZ essentially COPIES the post commands to the pre command section leaving the post commands untouched (He also converts BREAKs to GOTOs). That is, the post commands are still there as post commands (even though they may never be executed) after the PGCEdit Kill Playback routine. I have never had a problem with this idea.

But as 2COOL and others have pointed out, the cell may still execute and if there are no post commands to execute, then we may have an error situation.

I will look at the disk again and report back.

Regards

[blutach]

I do suspect we ought to transfer this discussion to the VOBBlanker thread :)

[blutach]

@jeanl

(Tongue in cheek)

If we had a nice trace function in PGCEdit, it would be very easy to track down :D :D :D


@r0lZ

I know you're working on this, so, please don't take offence. I just mention it because I know Jean has wanted this for some time :)

[r0lZ]

I know you're working on this, so, please don't take offence. I just mention it because I know Jean has wanted this for some timeIt's coming... Some more patience, please...

BTW, you may not kill playback on a menu with buttons. Have you checked that?

[jeanl]

BTW, you may not kill playback on a menu with buttons. Have you checked that?
Oh my, I forgot about that! That would certainly break playback. But wouldn't vobblanker scream at you? It warns you if there are cell commands or buttons.... I'm puzzled.
I also found the quote from the user who got an unplayable DVD with vobblanker. It's here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83701
Originally posted by J-Wo
okay, so I used VobBlanker to remove one company logo from the VTS menu, 2 warning screens from the VMG menu, and an entire VTS of trailers. The result plays perfectly thru PowerDVD and on my Sony DVP-NS315, so that on DVD insert it goes straight to the transition animation to the main menu. BUT on my newer Panasonic DVP-S25 it's a different story. When I put in my disc, it reads it for a second and then just stops -- it doesn't autoplay into anything. When I press play, it starts playing Movie 1. If I press menu, it goes to the main menu but doesn't play the transition.

I'm going to give PgcEdit a try to remove those trailers. But does anyone know why my Panasonic is giving me so much trouble? (it also doesn't seem to like DVD+RWs as much as DVD+Rs, but I do most of my playback on RWs until I know the encoding went okay.)

Jeanl

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jeanl
Oh my, I forgot about that! Remember your second post in this thread?

[jeanl]

no, I don't remember, and I can't find it! :)
In any case, remember it's blutach who's having the playback problem. I yet have to find a case where pgcedit's kill playback hasn't worked for me...
Jeanl

[2COOL]

Besides the disclaimers on what I had with the thread, PgcEdit's Kill Playback works for me! :)

[blutach]

I have managed to look at how VOBBlanker works compared to PGCEdit in relation converting post commands to pres.

PGCEdit - which also works well for me - converts its post commands to pre commands in exactly the same way EXCEPT that it leaves the post commands in.

VOBBlanker, on the other hand, converts the commands the result being NO post commands.

Example follows showing number of commands from VMGM, LU1, VOBID1, no buttons:

http://img94.exs.cx/img94/9905/NewBitmapImage.gif

Now, if, for some reason, the cell is executed, under PGCEdit there is no problems. The post commands are still there and can be executed.

However, under VOBBlanker, there are no post commands, which may spell death to playback.

Solution: jsoto, when converting posts to pre commands, retain the post commands.

Hope this is a help.

Regards

[jsoto]

Yue're right. PgcEdit mode of commands processing is more, let's say "elegant".
I can do it, but I've to move the tables inside the IFO, because the command area grows. But this part of code is a little bit dirty in VobBlanker, so I prefer to keep it as it is.

But, I'm curious, why you cell is executed?

jsoto

[blutach]

@jsoto

See what 2Cool says above about cell execution if Link commands present.

[blutach]

@Everybody

Is a viable strategy then to blank a cell using VOBBlanker (not changing post into pre commands) and then use PGCEdit to kill playback?

[wlj101]

What is the meaning of "Kill Playback on Titles"

I am a DVD newbies and I read every single page here.

I want to enable the "Navigational Slider" on PowerDVD. What can I do with pcgedit? Is there any a guide for this? I know how to use the IfoEdit to edit the PUO command in VTS_PCGITI before. But some DVD doesn't work. I hope someone can tell me how to do it with pcgedit.

Thanz

[jsoto]

Is a viable strategy then to blank a cell using VOBBlanker (not changing post into pre commands) and then use PGCEdit to kill playback? Sure. And... seems to me that a different order in the execution of the tools will produce the same result, because pgcEdit do not touch the PGC itself.

@wlj101
What is the meaning of "Kill Playback on Titles" The goal is to do NOT play the unwanted titles, just bypassing them.

I want to enable the "Navigational Slider" on PowerDVD. What can I do with pcgedit? Is there any a guide for this? I know how to use the IfoEdit to edit the PUO command in VTS_PCGITI before. But some DVD doesn't work. I hope someone can tell me how to do it with pcgedit. Mmmm. This is out of scope of this thread, I can give you some different reasons..., but I think it's better to do a search and/or start other thread about this topic.

Possible causes of non working "Navigational Slider" on PowerDVD
- A PUOP in the IFO or the VOB.
- No TMAPTI table in the IFO.
And, in menu domain, I think it never works because there is not an equivalent TMAPTI table in this domain..

jsoto

[jsoto]

@blutach
If you want, we can continue the discussion in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82672) but my question is still open
why you cell is executed?
were you using VobBlanker 1.5.0.4 or higher?

I'd like to know if your case is a bug in the code or if it is an "unsupported" case. You can see the algorithm I'm using in the thread I've pointed out. This algorithm tries to find the link commands

jsoto

[CoNS]

Hiya 2COOL,

I've been using some of your guides, both some of the older ones and the newer ones for PgcEdit. Thank you very much for taking the time to make those guides. They're extremely useful I must say, and very detailed. They work like a charm. :)

Can you (or any other fellow user) give me a hint on the best way of removing audio (and/or subtitle) streams from a DVD. I have a DVD with the original audio dubbed in other languages, which I want to get rid of in order to save space for the video.

There're also subtitles in a lot of (for me) unuseful languages, but they don't take up so much space, but if I remove the obsolete audio and subtitle streams, this specific dvd will probably fit into a 4.7 gb DVDR without doing any video compression. :)

If video compression had been involved, I could have used DVD-Rebuilder to remove the streams (even though there seems to be an error in DVD-Rebuilder as it somehow doesn't remove all of the obsolete subtitle streams that I checked in the options menu and that is also marked in the DVD-RB ini file).

But how do I do it without DVD-RB, if I don't want to reauthor the DVD all the way from scratch, and if I only want to use freeware software?

I've tried two different methods, without success:

1) Using DVD-Shrink, full backup. Set it to no video compression and uncheck the unwanted audio and subtitle streams. However, last time I tried to do it (a few months ago), DVD-Shrink moved up all the audio/subtitle streams. So the language selection menus didn't worked properly thereafter :(

2) Demux the DVD with VobEdit and remux it again with IfoEdit, leaving out the unwanted audio and subtitle streams. This would give me the same problem as described under 1) - the streams aren't in "the right place" anymore. I could then fill up the slots by replacing the unwanted streams with empty streams, but this method involves too much trouble and too many steps and harddisk space in my book!

Do you have a different and easier way of doing it? Perhaps the DVD-Shrink method is alright if I only then knew how to correct the .ifo files with PgcEdit or IfoEdit, so that the language menus would work, too...

Thanks in advance

/ CoNS

[DMagic1]

Interesting topic.

[jsoto]

@CoNS
Ifoedit strip (VOB extras) and VobBlanker are able to strip audio languages keeping the other ones in their original place.
DVDShrink is also able, just uncheck "Logical remapping of enabled streams." in Edit> preferences, output files tab.

Ah!, there are also some 2COOL's guides about how remap the streams.

jsoto

EDIT:
Demux the DVD with VobEdit and remux it again with IfoEdit This is not a good practice. VobEdit does not know nothing about the PGCs inside the VOB (It does not open the IFO), so you will get bad results in the case of a multi-PGC VOB.

[CoNS]

jsoto, thanks for the tips! I'll try 'em out.

How do you partly strip the audio (remove unwanted streams completely) using VobBlanker?

[jsoto]

@CoNS
How do you partly strip the audio (remove unwanted streams completely) using VobBlanker? Select the PGC in main dlg and push "strip" button. A new dialog will pop up to select the streams

jsoto

[2COOL]

@CoNS

Originally posted by jsoto
DVDShrink is also able, just uncheck "Logical remapping of enabled streams." in Edit> preferences, output files tab.If you want to know more about this option, I've documented it here, “Logical remapping of enabled streams” option explained (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30508&highlight=Logical+remapping+of+enabled+streams).

Ah!, there are also some 2COOL's guides about how remap the streams.
Correcting Stripped Stream Attributes Left AFTER DVDShrink Transcoding (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60444)

[CoNS]

Ahh, you guys, jsoto and 2COOL...! Thanks for your help, it was exactly the info I needed

:thanks:

jsoto, does your strip function in VobBlanker change the IFOs? In other words: Does it work like having "Logical remapping of enabled streams" checked or unchecked in DVD-Shrink?

[jsoto]

VobBlanker disables the stripped audios. In other words, acts (once again 2COOL has clearly described the scenarios) as Logical remapping UNchecked in dvdshrink
jsoto

[CoNS]

Does both methods (stripping audio streams using VobBlanker or DVD-Shrink) take around the same time?

As I'm going to edit the menu buttons afterwards (delete the buttons for the removed audio languages in the selection menu) with MenuEdit, it looks like the best solution for me is checking the option on DVD-Shrink, because this leaves me with fewer streams to cycle through with my remote control?

The default setting in DVD-Shrink is that the option is not checked. And I haven't played with that option until now. But as I desribed in my first post, I've had bad luck using DVD-Shrink (v3.1) for removing the first and last audio streams on a DVD and keeping some audio streams in bewteen.

What happened was that when I - after stripping some audio tracks with DVD-Shrink before and after the trakcs I wanted to keep - played the DVD and selected the language of one the audio streams that I kept on the DVD, the order of the audio streams was somehow messed up, playing a different one of the audio streams that I kept. I didn't use any other DVD editing tool other than DVD-Shrink on that particular DVD.... :confused:

Judging from 2COOL's examples in the above mentioned post, this problem shouldn't occur in any of the methods?

[jsoto]

1.- I think so.

2.- As 2COOL says in the guide the right choice in this case is to UNcheck the option: "Playback results using remote audio button: You will only see the displays for your kept audio"

3.- 2COOL's example is a "normal" DVD. There are other, let's say, more tricky, and, i.e. audio 1 points to stream 3, audio 2 points to stream 1... Not sure, but may be these are the ones that cause your problems.

jsoto

EDIT: I believe we are running completely out of topic in this thread. May be its better to open a new one if you want to continue the discussion...

[CoNS]

you're probably right, jsoto, I'll end the discussion here with this one last point:

In the stickied post MenuEdit Q&A (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57186), Dimad points out the very same problem:

III) You want to delete some audio/subtitle streams from your DVD.

Problem: There are actually 2 problems. One is similar to Ia and can be resolved using proposed solution for Ia. Another is not as obvious: streams indexing will change after removal of some of them. Now buttons in language/subtitle selection menus will instruct player to select stream different from what is written on the button.
Solution: IMHO best way of removing such things is to use IfoEdit. It completely removes streams and accurately corrects ifo files. Use IfoEdit to find out new streams ordering. Use MenuEdit to edit commands associated with corresponding buttons.And when you think of it, it must be a very common problem when removing audio streams, lige I've experienced... However, unfortunately Dimad doesn't describe in details how to remove audio streams with IfoEdit, how to yse IfoEdit to find out new streams ordering, and how to use MenuEdit to edit commands associated with corresponding buttons.

Can anyone help me with this? If yes, please start a new thread with a link to this discussion here...

:thanks: