dvd to QT MP4

[gsharad007]

cud anyone tell me is there anyway to encode a dvd movie as qt mp4 or qt mov as i found the quality of movie trailers as extremly higher than the same of divx.

also pls suggest a codec/etc which can provide better quality than divx (pls dont suggest xvid). as i find the divx movies at rates of 3400kbps+ not gaining much in quality. actully gain in quality almost stops after rates of 2000kbps (for 720x480x30fps videos)

[Sharktooth]

QT doenst stand a chance against Xvid or even DivX expecially at HIGH bitrates.
However try RV10 or VP6.2.

EDIT: I was talking about QT Mpeg4 SP encoder.

[gsharad007]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
However try RV10 or VP6.2.


wats that and where are they

[Sharktooth]

... :search:

[tiki4]

Quicktime isn't a codec, but a media framework. The .mov container can include a whole variety of codecs. The Quicktime movie trailers are usually in Sorensen3 format which is a proprietary codec and - as the trailers prove - can be rather good at high bitrates.

Regards,

tiki4

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi gsharad007,

Provided you're using a minimum of two passes, at the sort of bitrates and pixel frame size you're quoting, your Mpeg4 encodes should look almost identical to your Mpeg2 source!

If you stick with simple profile, Mpeg4 video can be muxed into the MP4 or MOV container. And can include either 2Ch AAC or MP3 audio. All of which can be run in QuickTime player.


Cheers

[gsharad007]

Originally posted by tiki4
Quicktime isn't a codec, but a media framework. The .mov container can include a whole variety of codecs. The Quicktime movie trailers are usually in Sorensen3 format which is a proprietary codec and - as the trailers prove - can be rather good at high bitrates.

Regards,

tiki4

so u say if i load the movie in qt and then do a save/export to mov or mp4 i wudnt get the same quality as the trailers.

and seemoredigital as i said it is not coming even close i fail to c even little quality gains except for in high motion scenes. these are the setttings i use
3400 , 2-3pass, quantizer - mpeg2, no pys, no pre-pro, GMC, single/multi bidi.

i still get strong edge and not enough details/blocking/banding in background etc.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by gsharad007
so u say if i load the movie in qt and then do a save/export to mov or mp4 i wudnt get the same quality as the trailers. One of the reasons for this is because QuickTime only generates encodes in 1pass

It sounds like you've already convinced yourself that Sorenson3 video offers better looking video than Mpeg4. Unfortunately in order to generate 2pass Sorenson video streams you will need to buy Sorenson Squeeze 4.0 (http://www.sorensonstore.com/)... which is very expensive.


Cheers

[Sirber]

Sorenson 4 can do AVC. Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite is the first full-featured compression application to incorporate High Definition (HD) encoding for a variety of video formats including - MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, QuickTime, RealMedia, and Windows Media 9. The Suite also compresses the highest-quality video for Macromedia Flash files.

Sorenson Media has added the Sorenson AVC Pro codec (also known as H.264) to the Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite. This codec offers unparalleled encoding efficiency by creating the high-quality video at roughly 70 percent the standard MPEG-4 codec!

While most compression tools are cumbersome, with steep learning curves, Squeeze is easy to use and requires no in-depth knowledge of the complexities of compression technology. Squeeze 4 reduces your digital video to a fraction of its original size, allowing you to pack more onto CDs and DVDs or to stream across the Internet much more affordably.

Built for all of the Sorenson Media professional codecs and popular third-party codecs, the Sorenson Squeeze 4 Compression Suite enables you to easily deliver a variety of output formats, sizes, and bit rates. Simply take your edited, uncompressed video from popular tools such as Avid Xpress DV, Apple Final Cut, and Adobe Premiere or bring your digital video from your source straight into Squeeze 4. Encoding video is as easy as selecting an intelligent present for your intended audience and clicking the "Squeeze It" button.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sirber
Sorenson 4 can do AVC. How very true!

Unfortunately it's quality is not very good. Even in 2pass mode, I could not get it to generate encodes that looked as good as the h.264/AVC encoder that is incorporated in FFdshow.

And it certainly ain't as good as Nero's (Ateme/Ahead's) proposed AVC codec....

Needless to say, AVC in MP4 (or MOV) can't be played in QuickTime player anyway.


Cheers

[neo75903]

Here an screenshot as SeeMoreDigital suggested for QT, Simple Profile at Level 3.
Size=576x384 (resized using Lanczos 3)
Codec=XVID
Source=Cable TV
http://users.telenet.be/bugged/snap%20Friends.jpg

[Sirber]

Q is not too bad. I'd give 9/10 :)

[neo75903]

Thank you *bows* :)
SeeMoreDigital also has a few nice examples on his website at his mov streaming test section.

@SeeMoreDigital: did you use 3ivx or XVID for encoding?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by neo75903
SeeMoreDigital: did you use 3ivx or XVID for encoding? I used XviD with 2passes and 3ivx's muxer in GraphEdit.


Cheers

[neo75903]

Quicktime properties says 3ivx, does that mean that if 3ivx muxer changes fourcc from xvid to 3ivx?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by neo75903
Quicktime properties says 3ivx, does that mean that if 3ivx muxer changes fourcc from xvid to 3ivx? Technically speaking, there are no 4CC codes in MP4.

What I can confirm is, if you de-mux the Mpeg4 video stream to AVI and run it thru' GSpot. XviD's "UserData" code is preserved.


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by neo75903
Quicktime properties says 3ivx, does that mean that if 3ivx muxer changes fourcc from xvid to 3ivx?thats because you have 3ivx installed and therefore the 3ivx decoder gets used in qt

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
What I can confirm is, if you de-mux the Mpeg4 video stream to AVI and run it thru' GSpot. XviD's "UserData" code is preserved.no need to extract to .avi
.mp4 files userdata can be directly displayed with the mpeg4vol tool from mpeg4ip (which also was the first tool available able to read out the bitstreams userdata)

[neo75903]

Bond:
thats because you have 3ivx installed and therefore the 3ivx decoder gets used in qt


Actually not, i uninstalled 3ivx a week ago for testing purposes with QT. Or are there some remains left in QT?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
thats because you have 3ivx installed and therefore the 3ivx decoder gets used in qt Actually, this does not have to be the case!

Even if you don't have 3ivx installed (which I don't on one of my drives), if the Mpeg4 stream has been muxed by 3ivx, QuickTime will still reveal it as being, 3ivx: -

http://img18.exs.cx/img18/1301/SMD_QuickTime_Player_3ivx_Info.gif


Cheers

[Mug Funky]

hmm.. just had a thought. perhaps the quality not getting better with bitrate and the loss of details is due to postprocessing being turned on? or pre-processing? that will smooth things out a lot (divx's postprocessing makes things extremely oversmooth).

pls don't suggest xvid

any reason for that? you don't like opensource? or maybe you just don't like quality?

the best things in life are free :)

but if you're after a different codec, i'll suggest the mpeg-4 that comes with ffdshow. it doesn't have the "swimming noise" issue that divx and xvid have. bitrates will be higher and you'll probably get a few more blocks.

[neo75903]

@SeeMoreDigital: idd, i ussually uninstall 3ivx for compatibility testing but it always recognizes it as a 3ivx stream. Always thought that was because 3ivx installation has left some tracks on my system.

@Mug Funky: interesting encoder, just tried it out with a few commercials and i still prefer the XVID results. The blocky thing is just a tad to much and becomes a bit annoying. At 500kbps, which is the bitrate i ussually encode in.
Not saying it looks bad, not at all, guess this is where the personal taste comes in :)
Who is the developer from that MPEG4 encoder btw?

[akupenguin]

Originally posted by neo75903
Who is the developer from that MPEG4 encoder btw?
It's a community project of course, but the primary author is Michael Niedermayer.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by neo75903
@SeeMoreDigital: idd, i ussually uninstall 3ivx for compatibility testing but it always recognizes it as a 3ivx stream. Always thought that was because 3ivx installation has left some tracks on my system. I understand your thought process!

I can confirm, that I've tested the "3ivx muxed" encodes on several machines, that have never, ever, had any of 3ivx filters installed... and QuickTime player always dispalys the streams properties as being 3ivx.

The level of detail QuickTime player displays in its information panel is very interesting. How does QuickTime know that it's an, 3ivx D4 4.5.1 stream... where is it pulling the information from?


Cheers

[LordRPI]

I can confirm the same on a PowerMac with OS X.3. I've looked at the code in a hex editor and see nothing. Will have to dig through the 1600 page QuickTime manual tonight...

[gsharad007]

no preprocessing or anything else is on except adaptive single bidi.

and for xvid its not that i am against it but it is similar to divx whereas wat i was really looking for was a codec which can give me best results at high bitrates (2400 - 3200+ kbps). and checking out qt i discovered it gave really smooth results wid gradient like stuff. thats y i asked. and divx doesnt seem to get much better at higher bitrates.

bottom line: which is the best codec for high bitrates.

[Selur]

if you use datarates like 2400+kbps using a custom matrix in xvid might really boost the quality,...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by gsharad007
... and checking out qt i discovered it gave really smooth results wid gradient like stuff. thats y i asked. and divx doesnt seem to get much better at higher bitrates.

bottom line: which is the best codec for high bitrates. Okay, lets get to the bottom of this!

When you say QuickTime (QT). What exactly do you mean? When you are playing one of your high bitrate encodes, can you confirm the codec are you talking about... ie: Sorenson or Mpeg4?

You can find this out by playing an encode in QuickTime. Selecting "Window" and then selecting "Show Movie Info". You should then see a box like this (with similar info): -

http://img42.exs.cx/img42/6327/QuickTime_Media_Info.gif


Cheers

[gsharad007]

Originally posted by Selur
if you use datarates like 2400+kbps using a custom matrix in xvid might really boost the quality,...

which matrix wud u suggest.

and u cant use custom matrix in divx can u ??

[works]

@SeeMoreDigital
Haven't had the chanse to thank you about your findings, squeezing xvid simple profile with AAC audio to .mov container has helped my work _alot_. The only problem is that I have to use higher bitrate than I would like to because of the profile restrictions. Guess that I just have to wait for a new version of QT to come out and start supporting h264 and do my future encodes with Ateme's codec.

@gsharad007
afaik, you can't.