RealPlayer 10: no native mp4 support?

[Imperial Llama]

When I try to play a mp4 file with RealPlayer it tries to download an update called 'QuickTime Support Plugin (36.4 KB)', but it won't install it because it says I need to have QuickTime installed. I though I remembered downloading an update for an older version of RealPlayer that allowed you to play mp4 files without having to install QuickTime. Is this no longer the case?

Here is my RealPlayer version info:

RealPlayer(tm) (win32)
Version 10.5
Helix Powered
With Harmony(tm) Technology
Build 6.0.12.1053
Distribution: RN30PRM

:confused:

[echo]

That's weird. I don't know about newer versions but I have version 10.0 installed (build 6.0.12.883) and aac mp4/m4a files play out of the box with no update required as far as I remember. But I do have quicktime installed so maybe that's it...

[karl_lillevold]

That's very odd behavior. I guess it depends on what is inside your MP4 file, or perhaps country dependent. As you know, MP4 is just a container, it can carry many codecs.

Auto-update of RealNetworks' MPEG-4 playback components always works for me. Below is a screenshot of what happened when I tried to play an MP4 file with MPEG-4 Video. No Quicktime installed. As you can see, RealPlayer (the exact same version you have), downloads RealNetworks' MPEG-4 Video plugin to handle playback. For .3gp and MP4 files with audio, other plugins might get downloaded (3GPP and H.263 plugins specifically).

I have placed 3 samples in this folder (http://www.lillevold.com/files/mpeg4video/):

video_only_159KB.mp4 (http://www.lillevold.com/files/mpeg4video/video_only_159KB.mp4)
video_audio_2MB.mp4 (http://www.lillevold.com/files/mpeg4video/video_audio_2MB.mp4)
3gpsample_1MB.3gp (http://www.lillevold.com/files/mpeg4video/3gpsample_1MB.3gp)

Try some of these out. You might also try MPEG4ip tools (mp4info.exe) from http://www.rarewares.org/mp4.html to determine what is inside your MP4 file.

Also see the last page of the main RealPlayer thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68399) for some similar auto update / Quicktime related problems.

http://www.lillevold.com/files/png/mp4plugin.png

[Imperial Llama]

Thanks for the replies. I've tried the samples above and I have the same problem. This is what else I've tried so far:
Followed the instructions in the "make RealPlayer behave" thread and installed it on clean build of Win XP SP2 with nothing else installed except MS security updates (did all this with a virtual machine).
Changed all the location info from UK to USA.
Manually installed all the plug-ins from RealPlayer update (I see H.263 and 3GPP plug-ins but there's no MPEG4).
Also I tried an old build of RealPlayer (version 10.0, don't remember the exact build) earlier today before I updated it to the newest version. So far any attempt to play mp4 or 3gp files with RealPlayer ends up with this:

http://img35.exs.cx/img35/6592/rp.png

I can play all of the mp4 files I've tried fine with VideoLAN.

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Also see the last page of the main RealPlayer thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68399) for some similar auto update / Quicktime related problems.

My problem sounds very similar to the one reported by S_O on page 4. If you want anymore information, or want me to try anything else, please let me know.

[karl_lillevold]

Thanks, I will forward this to someone who might know what is going on. I am afraid I don't... :confused:

[S_O]

Yes, I have tested it on several PCs, MP4 Video does not work at all without QuickTime. And it´s broken with QuickTime.
I yust verfied with Karl´s files again: Without QT playback is impossible. Also I have 3gpp-plug-in installed, 3gp won´t play without QuickTime. I could also verfied that video breaks when you move the mouse over it.

@Karl:
The mime-types of your server aren´t set correctly. Both file-types (3gp and mp4) are sent as text/plain. Correct would be video/mp4 and video/3gpp.

[bond]

karl, is reals plugin supposed to support mpeg-4 adv. simple profile already?

[karl_lillevold]

bond: simple profile only

S_O: thanks for the web server information. I have updated those MIME types along with a few others (RM, RMVB, MKA, MKV, M4A), that were not classified correctly on my server.

To those with MPEG-4 Video update problems: please PM me your e-mail and I will send you a short text file, that when opened in RealPlayer will force the player to get the MPEG-4 Video plugin. Maybe that will resolve some issues, but we still don't know why these systems will not just update by themselves.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Have I got this right?

In order for playback of "simple profile" Mpeg4/AAC in MP4 streams to work in RealPlayer 10 (and 10.5), you need to have QuickTime installed.

If you don't have QuickTime installed, RealPlayer will call for its own plug-in, which just like QuickTime, is "simple profile" only!

Shame then, that RealPlayer can't use say, Nero's filters...

One question. As you may, or may not be aware, some MP4 muxing tools can slightly b0rk Mpeg4/AAC encodes when played back in QuickTime (and consequently in RealPlayer). Does your own filter cope any better?


Cheers

[Sirber]

Originally posted by bond
karl, is reals plugin supposed to support mpeg-4 adv. simple profile already? If it can decode, can it encode?:)

[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
In order for playback of "simple profile" Mpeg4/AAC in MP4 streams to work in RealPlayer 10 (and 10.5), you need to have QuickTime installed.
If you don't have QuickTime installed, RealPlayer will call for its own plug-in, which just like QuickTime, is "simple profile" only!
Yes, the intention is: if QuickTime is not installed, it will download RealNetworks' MPEG-4 Video decoder, which is Simple Profile only. I do not know which profiles of MPEG-4 QT supports.

Shame then, that RealPlayer can't use say, Nero's filters...
Yes, it's too bad RealPlayer can not utilize installed DirectShow filters. Fortunately, there are plenty of other players to choose from.

One question. As you may, or may not be aware, some MP4 muxing tools can slightly b0rk Mpeg4/AAC encodes when played back in QuickTime (and consequently in RealPlayer). Does your own filter cope any better?

I did not know this, and I have no such b0rken streams. I would suggest you give it a try and let us know the result ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
I did not know this, and I have no such b0rken streams. I would suggest you give it a try and let us know the result ;) Yep, I've mentioned this problem on quite a few occasions. It seems to be a problem associated with mp4UI (and maybe other tools using MPEG4IP).

Here's a couple of encodes for you to try (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/QuickTime_test_encodes.zip). One works okay in QuickTime, the other b0rks (displaying a white screen) but will play if forced to do so.

It's also worth pointing out, both encodes will play perfectly in QuickTime if 3ivx's filters are installed... but that's not really the point....

And the problem only occurs in QuickTime's player and consequently your player ;)


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
One question. As you may, or may not be aware, some MP4 muxing tools can slightly b0rk Mpeg4/AAC encodes when played back in QuickTime (and consequently in RealPlayer).i never heard of such problems.
mpeg4ip should, to my knowledge, perfectly handle muxing .aac streams into .mp4

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
I do not know which profiles of MPEG-4 QT supports.qt also handles simple profile only too (seems companies dont want mpeg-4 to become too powerful compared to their closed solutions :( )

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
i never heard of such problems.
mpeg4ip should, to my knowledge, perfectly handle muxing .aac streams into .mp4 Well, mp4UI is certainly displaying problems and it seem to be associated with the video element, rather than the audio!

Have you tried playing the encodes... without having 3ivX installed?


Cheers

[karl_lillevold]

SeeMoreDigital: both clips play without any warnings, errors, or artifacts in RealPlayer, with the RealNetworks' MPEG-4 parser, renderer, and video decoder.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I get a slight white flash, at the beginning of the b0rked encode.... I guess it helps that your player goes into immediate "play" mode, unlike with the QuickTime player!


Cheers

[karl_lillevold]

Both S_O and Imperial Llama tell me that the trick to force RealPlayer to auto-update with RealNetworks' MPEG-4 plugins instead of having RealPlayer use Quicktime for MPEG-4 playback, solves their problems w. MPEG-4 playback in RealPlayer. I am glad to hear that. I have passed on the suggestion to by default install our MPEG-4 plugins, even when the system has Quicktime installed. Thanks!

S_O also reminded me something I forgot to mention:
Our MPEG-4 video decoder is simple profile + B frames, while Quicktime without 3ivx does not decode B frames.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Cool,

Incorporating support for B-VOP's is a good idea (and something QuickTime should have included, many releases ago).

How can RealPlayer be forced into downloading the plug-in? Can you provide the necessary file?


Cheers

[Imperial Llama]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Both S_O and Imperial Llama tell me that the trick to force RealPlayer to auto-update with RealNetworks' MPEG-4 plugins instead of having RealPlayer use Quicktime for MPEG-4 playback, solves their problems w. MPEG-4 playback in RealPlayer. I am glad to hear that. I have passed on the suggestion to by default install our MPEG-4 plugins, even when the system has Quicktime installed. Thanks!

S_O also reminded me something I forgot to mention:
Our MPEG-4 video decoder is simple profile + B frames, while Quicktime without 3ivx does not decode B frames.

Once I'd installed the Real's MPEG-4 plugin I could also decode mp4 streams with MPEG-4 video and MP3 audio, which is another thing that didn't work when I was using the Quicktime plugin.

[karl_lillevold]

Well, I finally learned why auto-update to our own MPEG-4 Video plugins has always worked for me, and not for you guys.. It turns out RealNetworks decided this is a "Plus" feature, due to the MPEG-4 license fees that need to be covered for each download. As employees, we have free "Superpass", which includes all "Plus" features ... I should have logged out and auto-update would not have worked for me either.

In any case, for this reason I can not make the MP4 auto-update file widely available, but anyone who has trouble with MPEG-4 and 3GPP in their RealPlayer, can PM me their e-mail address, and I will e-mail you the file. :cool: Please include the sentence "I will not re-distribute", in your PM. If I get too many requests, offer may end at any time :scared:

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Karl,

Well I guess that explains that. Thanks for the explanation.


Cheers

[bond]

so this means no free mpeg-4 playback in realplayer (without qt) i suppose?

[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by bond
so this means no free mpeg-4 playback in realplayer (without qt) i suppose?
At the moment, this is true for MPEG-4 Video. AAC and HE-AAC audio is included in all player installs for free. CD audio rip to AAC at all bitrates likewise.

[bond]

:(

[neo75903]

Djeez should have read the thread more careful before uninstalling Quicktime and iTunes :).
But i am glad this is resolved.