editing theory (and gui design)

[smok3]

few questions about editing theory:

1. how would you define film/video editing in one sentence?
(if your explanation is based on already defined theory, please note the sources.)
2. what web pages would you suggest that talk about this subject?
3. what books would you suggest on this subject?
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4. what would be the best nonlinear-editor's gui? and why?
5. what sources should i read on the subject of video editing and gui design? (if there are any)
6. is there a good source of information on how to design a general app gui?
7. what do you think about the timelines, is there a way to use node type approach for 'classical' editing and how?

any comments are welcome :D

[smok3]

School Homework? lmao, so you wanna talk about how to make xvid to play on your elta??

[theReal]

1. how would you define film/video editing in one sentence?Finding/selecting good shots and putting them together in a way that the viewer won't notice any editing.

Of course that only applies to to "realistic" stuff - if we're talking about music clips, commercial/promo spots and such then there's more (like visual effects/special transitions...).

I guess this is very trivial, but it was the first thing that came to my mind (your other questions go beyond my knowledge anyways)

Wait, I have a fun answer for question 4: AVID! Why? Well, because it's AVID ;) (you see I don't mean it, but that's what you're going to hear from most editors...)

[jkwarras]

An interesting quizz, so I'll answer ;)

Originally posted by smok3
[B]few questions about editing theory:

1. how would you define film/video editing in one sentence?
It's the process that transform a lot of unlinked video shoots into an story (commercial, fiction, documentary, experimental).
2. what web pages would you suggest that talk about this subject?
Not really about video-editing but about DV and Digital Video in general. A lot of useful stuff: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/

Note: You can harm your eyes with so much things to read and learn :D
3. what books would you suggest on this subject?
That maybe too obvious but for me, the user guide of Premiere and Final Cut Pro gives you the very specific knowledges to start editing. The rest, it's just an art. I really mean it, a good editor is not only a technic person, it also needs an special feeling in order to give a soul to the edit.
4. what would be the best nonlinear-editor's gui? and why?
Just worked in Premiere and Final Cut Pro. Not so much different. I'll tend to use Premiere because I'm a PC user.

I leave the others questions unaswered because I don't know anything about it :rolleyes:

[smok3]

tnx for replys,
the 8th question would be:

8. how do you usually find the ('one and only') cut?

[adoniscik]

You ought to read The Conversations : Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375709827/qid=1098146342/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/104-7383271-2262367?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[smok3]

iam reading this at the moment:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0520075889/qid=1098170148/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/002-2794986-2700021

what pisses me is the editors saying that editing is an organic process, you know like intuitive..., but with little thinking you will get to the : copy/paste what you see on tv - is what they are actually saying (and that is a fact also if you just see the rather fast but anyway complex history of editing)

(adoniscik: i got like 6 books just from amazon and i think the one you quoted is there as well, most are really to simple; but i will still get a slight idea on whats going on elsewhere - us mostly.)

edit: yeah, this are the amazon books i have so far:
* 1 of: The Conversations : Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film
* 1 of: The Five C's of Cinematography: Motion Picture Filming Techniques
* 1 of: The Visual Story: Seeing the Structure of Film, TV and New Media
* 1 of: First Cut: Conversations With Film Editors

[theReal]

what pisses me is the editors saying that editing is an organic process, you know like intuitive..., but with little thinking you will get to the : copy/paste what you see on tvThe problem with editing for tv is always time. I work for a regional tv station and I really hate editing for the daily news broadcast. There's no time to make things better than copy&paste some pictures together. You don't even have the time to search for the best shots, you just take the first acceptable shots you see and put them together. The only thing that matters is that you don't want to make any mistakes like a head-to-head- or pan-to-pan edit, but that's it. I hate it (luckily I don't edit much at work, I rather shoot pictures or do the studio lighting - we're a "everyone-must-be-able-to-do-everything" low budget station...)

[smok3]

TheReal: i guess i wasnt clear, actually i was talking about the editing logic, like when to use parallel or flashback or some other logic/editing style to tell the story, and this are all the things that have been around for some time, but if one would not actually see an example before (and examples are in lots of different programs), would be hard to do it the 'correct' way... (where 'correct' stands for an editing 'language' that was made over the time - simplified example: dissolve means time displacement) - so its weird to talk about how intuitive the thingy is, when one simply mimics the things that were seen zillion times... (another example would be 'how to get over the axe' - i just analized lotr2 the other day, there are some really good editing solutions for the over-axe thingy - like when the blonde talks to the dwarf about how aragorn fall over, at that place just the 'pan' of her head from left_to_right is enough to establish a shot that is over the axe. - and again, the axe is priciple which would be hard to solve if one would not see zillion solutions allready.)

(btw: i was doing the news stuff for quite some time as well, love the adrenalin of it, but i would not do it anymore today...)

p.s. and sorry for my disturbed english.

p.s.2. oh, about avid, i have no idea how it looks or works today, i think i was working with something called 'media composer 8000' or was it 800? quite some years ago, looked like this:

-------------------------------------------
| | |
| | |
| | |
| player | recorder |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
-------------------------------------------

+ timeline

which was again mimicked by most other editors, again a simple layout and today it looks like the only acceptable one.

(this was a dual monitor system, the sketch shows 2nd monitor, when 1st was 'material bins' and stuff, it was running on mac)

[theReal]

i just analized lotr2 the other day, there are some really good editing solutions for the over-axe thingy - like when the blonde talks to the dwarf about how aragorn fall over, at that place just the 'pan' of her head from left_to_right is enough to establish a shot that is over the axe.I love the scene where Smeagol is talking to himself (in LOTRI or II, I don't know) - it "breaks" the 180°-rule over and over again because it's only one person repeatedly shown from reverse angles but it perfectly underlines Smeagol's shizophrenic personality.
and again, the axe is priciple which would be hard to solve if one would not see zillion solutions allreadyWhat do you mean, zillion solutions? I think the only way to solve the 180°-problem is camera movement around the axis.
Or do you mean that there's nothing new to invent in editing anymore? Like every editing makes people say "this is the same editing solution like in the movie XY"??

btw. I have never worked with AVID so far, we have Final Cut Pro at work (AVID cutters still think it's kind of a toy, FCP fans say it's the greatest editing suite that will crush AVID...)

[smok3]

I think the only way to solve the 180°-problem is camera movement around the axis. another way that comes to my head right now is cut to exactly the axis and then cross over (which is similar to the actual camera motion thought), another one would be the one i described with blonde and the dwarf, that is the dominant actors axis moves-rotates, when she/he rotates the head -> cut over (which is not over by much actually, since the dominant axe moved, same example is when the hobbits sit on that moving tree, they just look the other way about 90° so you are sudenly sitting on a new axis and again cut over -
where the movement of the tree goes L->R cut R->L ).

Or do you mean that there's nothing new to invent in editing anymore? Like every editing makes people say "this is the same editing solution like in the movie XY"?? i dont think that, actually i think one could almost invent entire set of new editing 'rules' which could break the old ones, but they cant talk about 'intuition' and at the same time go by the established rules... (or maybe the word 'intuition' means something else than i think.)

[smok3]

btw. I have never worked with AVID so far, we have Final Cut Pro at work (AVID cutters still think it's kind of a toy, FCP fans say it's the greatest editing suite that will crush AVID...) for film style editing i would still go with lightworks (at least on a heavy production), the ui looks kinda funny, but it is really powerfull + it is the fastest and most 'analog feel' editor i know so far, the new version is called lightworks touch or something:
http://www.lwks.com/product/p_home.ch2