Converting 1080i .ts to Xvid or WMV-9

[Stereodude]

Is anyone else converting 1080i HDTV transport files to xvid or wmv-9?

I've tried converting to both 1280x720 and anamorphic 960x720 with xvid as well as dabbling with 1920x1080 as well.

Typically I do something like this after processing with DVD2AVI HD

MPEG2Source("e:\9-20 CSI Miami.d2v",idct=5, cpu2="xxxxoo", iPP=true, showQ=false)
Telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=2,show=false) #if film based
#tomsmocomp(0,5,1) #if video
Decimate() #if film
LanczosResize(960, 720, 4, 2, 1912, 1068)

I then compress to xvid (w/ b frames, no GMC, no qpel) using a 2 pass process and a target bitrate of 6500kbit/sec and I put the original ac3 audio back into the mkv with the video stream.

Anyone doing anything similar?

[QNX]

what about autogk? ;)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64266

[Stereodude]

What would be the benefit of using it over my method?

[QNX]

fast and easy use...

of course is you don't prefer manual encoding ;)

[Stereodude]

Well, I compared my xvid to the original .ts and the file seems to show a noticable loss of sharpness. Enough that the Xvid doesn't really look HD, but more like a high quality DVD.

I guess I need to see if it's the post processing / deblocking, or the reduction in pixels.

[Stereodude]

Turning off the post processing in mpeg2dec helped some, but they're still not quite as sharp or detailed, so I'm trying an anamorphic 1080x720 xvid now.

*sigh* I probably should have been using the mpeg matrix instead of the H.263 one. *sigh*

[quinn]

Actually, you want to go one step farther than using the MPeg matrix - there are a couple of HiDef matrices running around, but the one that people seem to like the most is
"Didees SixOfNine Max=24" matrix - I've attached it in a zip file - unzip and "load" the resulting file as a custom matrix.

If the attachment doesn't work - a websearch should find the matrix.

It's given me very good results on XVid HiDef.

I do find that WMV-9 gives a slightly better picture for a given bitrate, but at the expense of taking quite a bit longer (and occasionally crashing virtual-dub, which is quite annoying), so I
use WMV-9 for longer movies (2 hours or more), and XVid for the 90-100 minute variety.

[Stereodude]

If I'm doing a 2 pass rip, what difference does the matrix make?

[quinn]

A lot. For instance (and I don't pretend to know exactly how the matrices work, so this is an analogy based on my understanding)....

The matrix determines how much of what frequencies are "dropped". This, to some degree, determines how "soft" or "sharp" the picture looks. For instance, the H.323 matrix is always softer than the MPeg matrix, which is softer than the SixOfNine matrix, because, regardless of the bitrate you use, higher frequencies are ignored to a smaller or larger extent depending on the matrix.

If you try all 3 matrices, and encode at a specific quality number (like 2.0), you will normally find that the H.323 is smaller than the MPeg is smaller than the SixOfNine result.

NO matter what bitrate you use, if higher frequencies are diluted, you get a softer picture. Now, if you're going to use a low bitrate, you're better off using the H.323 matrix - the picture will look better, but for higher bitrates, keeping the higher frequencies (i.e. sharper edges) is what you want to do, so you want a matrix that does that (like SixOfNine, or hvs-best-picture [this one ships with XVid]).

[Stereodude]

I tried it, and the results were sharper. I got a slightly lower Q, but there doesn't seem to be any downside to the extra sharpness. I compared the encode to the original with AVIsynth and the Didees one is as sharp as the source, so I'm unsure how WMV9 would be any sharper.

[Emp3r0r]

I've also good results with hvs-best and 6of9 for hdtv. Here is a script for CSIMPEG2Source("h:\csi.d2v",idct=5)
Telecide(order=1)
Decimate()
Crop(0,0,0,-8)
UnDot()
LanczosResize(1280, 720)I encoded with XviD 3 bframes and hvsbetter and results are good. The source was a healthy 19+mbps which helped quality. I used projectX to cut commercials but for some reason the demuxed AC3 file is all choppy. This only happens with CBS HDTV. It seems to be dumping frames from the AC3 upon demuxing. Anybody know why?

[quinn]

I don't think WMV9 is any sharper than XVID as long as XVid is able to encode with a high enough "Q" level (i.e. a good bitrate).
What I find is that on movies like PulP fiction that are 2 1/2 hours long, XVid seems a bit starved for bitrate (the bitrate is down around 3700 to fit on 1 DVD). At those lower bitrates, WMV9 seems to maintain the quality better.

[Ishan]

i tried WMV9 on 720p encode and i have to say it plainly sux!
the result is very blocky on fast flashing scene (even at high bitarates), it's sharp but with too many artifacts. I'm using Xvid VHQ4+B frames+Qpel and HSV Best matrix @4000kbps, looks very sharp and no artifacts with no post processing (using latest FFDshow).
Is GMC usefull for those kind of encode?

My AVS script :

Mpeg2source("bla.d2v")
crop(0,0,1920,1080) #to crop that gray line at the bottom
Telecide(order=0,guide=1,post=4) #order & guide depend on the source.
Decimate()
UnDot()
LanczosResize(1280,720)


anyone use post=4 in decomb? the result looks a bit soft but it give a very smooth ouput.

[Stereodude]

Originally posted by quinn
I don't think WMV9 is any sharper than XVID as long as XVid is able to encode with a high enough "Q" level (i.e. a good bitrate).
What I find is that on movies like PulP fiction that are 2 1/2 hours long, XVid seems a bit starved for bitrate (the bitrate is down around 3700 to fit on 1 DVD). At those lower bitrates, WMV9 seems to maintain the quality better.
Where are you getting movies in HD from?

[Stereodude]

Originally posted by Ishan
anyone use post=4 in decomb? the result looks a bit soft but it give a very smooth ouput.
This is what I settled on.
MPEG2Source("e:\9-20 CSI Miami.d2v",idct=5, moderate_h=25, moderate_v=50, cpu2="xxxxoo", iPP=true, showQ=false)
Telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=2,show=false)
Decimate()
LanczosResize(1080, 720, 4, 2, 1912, 1076)

Then I encode at 6500kbit/sec with didees max=24, Adaptive quant and B frames (no gmc or qpel). I stuff it into a mkv file and set it for anamorphic playback to 1280x720.

My target has been to put 2 episodes on a single layer DVD.

[Stereodude]

Originally posted by Emp3r0r
I used projectX to cut commercials but for some reason the demuxed AC3 file is all choppy. This only happens with CBS HDTV. It seems to be dumping frames from the AC3 upon demuxing. Anybody know why?
I use hdtvtompeg2 to cut out commercials myself. It seems to work well without any audio drift.

[Bruce Willis]

Originally posted by Emp3r0r
I've also good results with hvs-best and 6of9 for hdtv. Here is a script for CSIMPEG2Source("h:\csi.d2v",idct=5)
Telecide(order=1)
Decimate()
Crop(0,0,0,-8)
UnDot()
LanczosResize(1280, 720)...

is it better to UnDot before resizing? DVD2AVI's avs puts it after resizing..

BTW I never use AQ, it makes dark areas blocky