Best video codec for sports low bit rate and medium bit rate

[Nil Einne]

Hi all,

I need to reencode a game of rugby (a sport) I recorded to make it smaller. I'm looking at a (VBR of course) low bit rate (say about 500k) and medium bit rate (say about 1000k). What video codec do you recommend? I can't seem to find any discussion of what video codec to use for sports.

If it's similar to movies then I would say XviD for the medium bit rate one unless things have changed. But what about the low bit rate? H.264? XviD? RM? Theora? WMP? MPEG2? (j/k)

Also any settings recommendations would be helpful (although more appropriate for the capture board I think)

P.S. For audio, I'll probably just be using AAC or Vorbis at 48kbit or some such

[stephanV]

sport and low bit rate is usually a nono unless you go for a very low resolution.

i wouldnt use XviD... IMO VP6.2 and WMV9 (VCM) are better for lower bit rates

[Tommy Carrot]

H.264 is the best codec at medium/low bitrates (by far imo), but unfortunately you have to wait a month or so until the first usable implementation will be available.

[Nil Einne]

BTW, I should mention the source is MPEG2 encoded, fairly high bit rate and decent quality. It's captured from a satellite source but has gone through an analog conversion first.

Also I don't give a damn about future compatibility, as long as it works now.

Interesting but if there are no usable codecs then how do you know by far it's the best? Just because it's the best in theory doesn't mean it's the best in practice...

[Tommy Carrot]

Originally posted by Nil Einne
Interesting but if there are no usable codecs then how do you know by far it's the best? Just because it's the best in theory doesn't mean it's the best in practice...

Well, there is one, it's just not public. See the ateme h.264 beta test threads.

[Sharktooth]

Vp6.2 or RV10 are the codecs you're looking for.
Actually, there isnt a "decent" h.264 implementation.

EDIT: However here's an example (http://ebola.gamersrevolt.it/catwoman_VP6-aac.avi) of a VP6.2 (http://www.on2.com/duckutils/duck_license.php3?class=vp6) encode at 700kbps (audio was encoded with Nero Mpeg4-AAC plugin).

[Nil Einne]

Shark, would you recommend them for ~1100k too?

[Sirber]

I would go for RV10, it's currently the best codec for very low, low and medium bitrate. The in-loop filter makes miracles :D

[Sharktooth]

1100kbit is quite a good bitrate but if the source is "sport" then... yes. Try VP6.2 (high sharpness profile) with default settings and sharpness setting of 5 or more.

[IgorC]

Originally posted by Sirber
I would go for RV10, it's currently the best codec for very low, low and medium bitrate. The in-loop filter makes miracles :D

Please when you are saying what is the BEST dont forget say that its IMHO - it´s only my opinion . Ok? For example, in my case : IMHO :
1. H.264 Ateme ( waiting for soon realese)
2. VP6 / RV 10

[Sirber]

Originally posted by IgorC
Please when you are saying what is the BEST dont forget say that its IMHO - it´s only my opinion . Ok?I would go more for "IME" - In My Experience. Ok?

[edit]

Care to explain this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=548588&highlight=IgorC#post548588)?

[IgorC]

:D:D :D :D :D :D :D

[snacky]

I am using x264 as an encoder, through mencoder as an interface.

x264 is not quite complete, and there are still some important changes in the pipeline. Nevertheless, I've gotten some good results with it. Unfortunately mencoder is not very good for anything other than avi container format, but if you have a recent (mid-July or later) ffdshow with libavcodec h.264 decoding enabled, you should be able to watch this one test clip:

http://ikaruga.co.uk/~snacky/sq-4.avi

Info: This is from my Matrix DVD. It includes 216 seconds of video starting at chapter 9 (the red pill/blue pill scene). I happened to settle on a video bitrate of 314.4 kbps as being adequate. As you can see, the result is pretty darn good, though not quite perfect. I'd certainly enjoy it if others would try to match this quality with other codecs. However I can't decode these Ateme mp4 encodes people are making.

*edit*: the original dvd mpeg2 source averages almost 4600kbps during this scene. Though I suspect half of that can be explained by film grain/noise, which I removed from this encode with a fairly light denoise filter.

Now, this is a fairly low motion scene, so don't get the idea that ~300kbps is good enough for most clips at 720x352. For video roughly in the area of DVD resolution, high motion clips may require 1000-1500kbps to look as good as the original.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Nil Einne,

If you half the vertical resolution of the source, you should be able to generate very good looking encodes in Mpeg4.

You might even be able to stream them!


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

Why use mpeg4 and half the resolution if he doesnt care about the compatibility?
If i should do such an encode i would go for non-mpeg4 (vp62,rv10,wmv9) and keep the full resolution.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Before we go any further. I guess the question needs to be asked... What do you intend doing with your encodes Nil Einne. And why the different bit-rates?


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by Nil Einne
Also I don't give a damn about future compatibility, as long as it works now.
So i thought he just wants a good quality encode and doesnt give a damn about compatibility, standalones etc...
But thats MY opinion. We better ask him.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Sharktooth
So i thought he just wants a good quality encode and doesnt give a damn about compatibility, standalones etc...
But thats MY opinion. We better ask him. Given that a game of rugby (80/90min) could easily fit onto an 700MB CD~R, I can't quite understand why Nil Einne is asking about 500Kbps and 1000Kbps differences!

Burn it onto CD~R, keep it forever and "have" compatibility, I say!


Cheers