European HDTV (astra) to use MPEG-4 AVC/H.264

[bond]

seem to be old news (from june), but i recently stumbled over it and didnt find this to have been discussed on doom9 already:

To ensure a uniform roll-out and avoid a fragmentation of the nascent market in Europe, SES ASTRA and its industry partners (more than sixty of its European broadcast customers, hardware manufacturers and other industry partners) have agreed on the minimum technical specifications for HDTV broadcasts, based on e.g. the open MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 AVC standards. These technical specifications include:
- HDTV ready displays need a minimum of 720 lines vertical resolution
- Scan formats of 720P50 and 1080i25 for HDTV
- Standard interfaces for peripheral equipmentread more here (http://www.ses-astra.com/press-info/news/press-releases/04/20040621.shtml)

anyone having more infos about these specs? audio format, etc...?

[ac-chan123]

Hi bond,

in the c´t(20/2004) have a two page article about the IBC, where 1.5 pages are about HDTV. It seems to be no standard about wich resolution(720p or 1080i) or wich codec should be used. the two candidates ar WMV(VC-9/VC-1) or H.264(MPEG 4 Part 10/AVC). WMV has better hardweare soppurt now but the big company are in the AVC Aliance and would like H.264 as Codec.

I could tell you more in the german Forum(my english isn´t good for more deep explanation).

[bond]

i started a thread about it on german doom9 here (http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread.php?t=17705) :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

As some of you may already know BskyB (aka SkyDigital) have begun testing HD transmissions over Europe...

However, I have one big fear regarding Rupert Murdoch's proposed venture into HD DVB-S.

Given that Sky's current SD DVB-S service, uses set-top boxes designed to a 'rigid' specification (laid down by BSkyB. I think it's fair to assume that their HD DVB-S will do the same.

Currently all HD broadcasters use Mpeg2 for their transmissions. But I've got this awful feeling that Rupert Murdoch's boys will eventually use their own system based on Micro$oft's WMV codec!

I just hate it when I get these feelings!


Cheers

[SirCanealot]

I wonder why they're throwing around numbers like "25" and "50".
I understand that 25fps/50fps (whatever) support is a must, but how about full support for all of NTSC's frame rates/refresh rates(whatever)?

I fear I'm going to have to wait years for HD to come out over here, just to end up with more PAL Speedup or Frameblending.

Actually, I'm more worried about video games - video games have 100x more problems with PAL than movies ever will, but luckily many games now have 50/60hz switches, so I assuming this'll be standard on the next gen of consoles that really take advantage of HD, heh.

But I don't understand the reason for a PAL format AT ALL! I don't see why PAL Land can't conform to standard set in the USA. Spliting up the world into PAL and NTSC for the next generation of TV seems a bit silly, imo; though I can see reasons for doing it.

[scharfis_brain]

It is never possible to change the framerate of a TV-standard afterwards without introducing MASSIVE costs and quality loss.

also, if a standard gets knocked out, it will be NTSC :p
(but as I said: it will never happen!)

the minor world uses 60 hz
only think for china and russia, they all are using 50Hz TV.

also, it is not possible to do a VFR (variable framerate) Television, cause CRTs and LCDs have to retime.
also it is very hard to edit VFR-content without major timing and sync issues. not mentioning the motion.

but. I really hate the look of telecined film.
steady stutter (I like alliterations) makes me going crazy...

the only thing, I could think about is introducing a 300 fps standard. but noone, will ever do such a standard, cause it will also introduce losts of costs:
- heavy storage needs, also meaning high datarates on transmission
- totally new equipment needed
with 1920x1080 @300fps progressive, you'll get: 1 GB/sec YUY2 data.
- television sets have do operate on 5 to 6 times more data.

(you may append lots of more things here)

[eb]

scharfis_brain wrote:it is not possible to do a VFR (variable framerate) Television
It seems to me that some basis is already introduced, at least in digital tvsat, every video and audio frames are carring their own timestamps.
From this is is easy step to display video frames based on timestamps only and keeping this frame on the screen till the next frame.

eb

[ac-chan123]

There is one BIG Problem in the change of Television. The TV Display are a long live technoligy. VCR, DVD and so things have a short live. So a big part of thepeople how can recieve the changed TV can handel it. This problem isn´t new. For Color TV they have the same problem. This is the why we have a color TV with crominanc and luminanc(YUV based). The luminac is a historical part of TV.