ADVICE encoding "The Others"

[nightrhyme]

I'm trying to make a rip of the movie: The Others, DVD 16:9 PAL.
Don't care about size or encoding time.
It's a really difficult encode because of the constant fog in the movie.

So far I'm using 2-pass, Didees SixOfNine-Max=20.qmatrix, No B-frames, VHQ: 1, MODE SEARCH: 6, Chroma Motion, Quantizer Restrictions: 2-31 on all, Trellis, No Packet bitsream, closed GOV.
RESOLUTION: 800 x 448.
Bitrate 1647Kb/s which gives me a Compression test of 70%.

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/7364/The-Others.png

Hope someone will help a poor Newbie with some XviD settings :-)

//Thanx in advance

[Teegedeck]

Why don't you try full resolution if it compresses so well?

[nightrhyme]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Why don't you try full resolution if it compresses so well?

Thanx for reply :)

Ehmm full resolution ?
720 x 576 ?
I actually don't know how to use that resolution. The closest I can get to that is 720 x 400 using GKnot.

What difference would that make ?
Since I'm allready using 800 x 448.

Anyway to avoid the blocks as seen in the screenshot ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Why don't you try full resolution if it compresses so well? Agreed!

Your 800x448 encode contains 358,400 pixels per frame. So why not generate a straight 720x576 1:1 XviD encode with PAR signalling.

You'll only be encoding 56,320 pixels per frame more - and approx a quarter of these will be matte anyway!

Why not give it a go?


Cheers

[nightrhyme]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Agreed!

Your 800x448 encode contains 358,400 pixels per frame. So why not generate a straight 720x576 1:1 XviD encode with PAR signalling.

You'll only be encoding 56,320 pixels per frame more - and approx a quarter of these will be matte anyway!

Why not give it a go?


Cheers

As I reply'ed to Teegedeck I don't know how :confused:
And what is PAR signalling?
I'm usin GKnot 0.32

Could you also please explain the benefit of using full resolution ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Personally speaking, I don't use GK so I can't tell you!

Maybe somebody could post an definitive "How to... Guide". As I've come across a few posts by confused forum members!


Cheers

[nightrhyme]

I messed a little around in the AVS script and succeeded making it 720 x 576 however it actually looks worse.
Meaning it didn't help on th blocking

[*.mp4 guy]

At your resolution you might want to try the max=24 matrice instead as it might get rid of the blocking.

[SeeMoreDigital]

nightrhyme,

Was your first image you posted captured after generating a "full movie" encode?

I'm guessing that your second capture was taken after not generating a full movie encode!

If so, you can't really obtain an accurate comparison by adopting such a method, as you have less bits to shuffle around during the two passes.


Cheers

[Manao]

On the last screenshot, there a thin black line on each vertical borders : that is bad, crop them ( it won't help you with your blocking issue, but it will slightly help overall ).

With such difficult scenes containing fog, I doubt you'll be able to get a result without blocks, except if you use deblocking at playback.

[nightrhyme]

@SeeMoreDigital
Both encodes were made of a small clip. I know it's not a full encode but it gives a hint as to how the encode will look.

@Manao
I know about the black borders. They are a result of my (newbish)editing the AVS file. I now know what to edit and what not to :)

Hmm I guess I'll just have to make it a compressed DVD, mpeg-2 to avoid blocks

Thanx for you input guys

[Ark]

...or you can do a "xvid-DVD", you'll have A LOT of space and bitrate to use, hopefully avoiding blockiness... :)

I also suggest you to:

- turn on b-vops, at their defaul values they are always beneficial, at all bitrates (acording to my tests...), expecially for reproducing noise and difficult situations like fog

- use VHQ 4, the encoding wil be slower, but as I understand you want the best quality possible no?

- You can also turn Qpel ON since the bitrate is high enough, if you want and if you like the effect...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by nightrhyme
@SeeMoreDigital
Both encodes were made of a small clip. I know it's not a full encode but it gives a hint as to how the encode will look. I see. In that case could re-encode the same bit of video as your first sample and upload an image from the same frame?


Cheers

[nightrhyme]

@Ark
What do you mean by XviD-DVD ?
I have not experienced VHQ4 to be that beneficial and neither B-VOBS. only use them when I'm limited by target-size.
Qpel I use sometimes in this case It doesn't help ;)


Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I see. In that case could re-encode the same bit of video as your first sample and upload an image from the same frame?

Cheers

Sure here you go:

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/9783/The-Others-RE-SIZED.png

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/4803/The-Others-FULL-RES.png

/Again Thanx for reply guys

[Didée]

What Ark means with an "XviD-DVD", simply is an encoding to 4GB.

To have said that: your screenshots don't look bad, really not. Probably you are not really complaining about "blockiness", but more about "flowing" artefacts ...

You are indeed facing one of the biggest and meanest enemies of mpeg-4: low contrast content. We had discussions on that topic already several times here on this board. And the temporary answer is: there is no solution. This sort of content isn't catched very well by mpeg-4, as a result of the coding technics that are used.

Perhaps it will get better when syskin comes up with one/some of the HVS plugins he is working on (better said: perhaps it will get *even* better - it is already much better nowadays as it was in former times).

For the moment, if you're not satisfied with your current result, you have little options except spending bitrate, more bitrate, and even more bitrate.

Or just keep the DVD / make a good DVD (mpeg-2) backup.

And don't watch the movie on a TFT - you'll see even the slightest imperfection ;)

edit: misspelling of Ark - sorry.

[nightrhyme]

Thanx so much for your insight Didée
Was just wondering what would create the best result.
A DVD-BACKUP encode or a XviD DVD ?

Actually I don't know how to make a XviD DVD of this movie since the Codec get's saturated at about 2GB, resolution 800 x 448.

[Teegedeck]

How big is the movie sans extras, anyway?

[nightrhyme]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
How big is the movie sans extras, anyway?

Do you mean the DVD ?
The DVD Incl.Extras is about 8.1 GB
It contains a DTS Audio track about 1.1 GB
and 2 AC3 tracks about 600 MB combined.

[Teegedeck]

I suspected that the movie itself could be pretty small if you strip the DTS, one of the AC3s and leave out all the extras. But sometimes bits seem to get pumped into a movie quite deliberately in order to let it grow beyond 4.7 GBs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for posting the revised images nightrhyme.

As I thought, there's very little difference between the two clips/pics!

If you're intending to generate encodes with such high quantities of pixels. If I were you I'd keep the image anamorphic!

At least you'll ba able to burn them onto DVD~R and watch them on an stand-alone player!

Originally posted by Teegedeck
... But sometimes bits seem to get pumped into a movie quite deliberately in order to let it grow beyond 4.7 GBs. How very true, especially with PAL DVD's!


Cheers

[nightrhyme]

Again Thanx for reply

I use a modifies PC for TV playback. That's why I always go for XviD.
So playback on stand-alone doesn't matter.

Since I don't know much about DVD compressing I'm gonna try Instant Copy 8 since I read great things about it. Perhaps I'll give CCE a shot too. But I'll have to read up on the usage on that one :)