FireFoxIE? Anyone tried this? :D

[Neo Neko]

http://www.firefoxie.net/

This looks truly devious and fun. I am definatly contemplating setting this up on my next clean up opperation for my sister. She absolutely refuses to use Mozilla for no good reason. Other than she just does not like it for some reason. I have tried hiding it before. But the instructions etc there look pretty comprehensive. About the only thing they are missing is bonzi buddy etc. :p

[Mug Funky]

heheh... kinda funny.

though i'm ambivalent about why a superiour program should pretend to be IE.

[shevegen]

Why?
I tell you why.
Because this way it will make it easier to break up the IE monopoly and leave the last decade behind, with its proprietary standards being leading-edge, as more and more users can switch away from IE (i dont care if they switch to opera or mozilla, personally I just use firefox, IE should never NEVER have reached a market share over 50% InMyHumbleOpinion.)

It is a really good idea, but I almost think that SOME people must experience something HORRIBLE before they overcome their fondness of IE.

For me it was called PopUps which caused me to switch. ;)

[dragongodz]

why a superiour program should pretend to be IE.
because of some peoples sheep like attitude to all things MS. they blindly believe that if its by MS its the best and refuse to even try a competing product by someone else, example - Neo Nekos sister.

so what you do is have it pretend to be the MS version, wait for them to use it for some time, ask them what its like and when they say its ok/great/whatever then reveal the truth. then get them to try and explain why they wouldnt try it in the first place. :D

[Doom9]

they missed the instructions on how to prevent Firefox to unload the memory when minimized... even a clueless n00b will notice the extreme delays when maximizing the browser again (does that hack work now btw?).

And I don't suppose there's a way to switch to standard linewrapping, is there?

[sysKin]

Originally posted by Doom9
they missed the instructions on how to prevent Firefox to unload the memory when minimized... even a clueless n00b will notice the extreme delays when maximizing the browser again (does that hack work now btw?).It only happens to some computers. I've never had any delay, for example - because of that, it's difficult to fix.

The hack works now (in 0.10pr).

As for the original topic, I have a bit different situation - every now and then my sister complains "I had to use IE today, and I just couldn't stand it". Heh, same feelings here :)

Radek

[neo75903]

Originally posted by shevegen


It is a really good idea, but I almost think that SOME people must experience something HORRIBLE before they overcome their fondness of IE.



True, Do like me, i refuse to help ppl out when they run into problems with their pc because IE is the cause of it.
Sounds a bit crue, but hey some ppl really need to bang against the wall before they realises the problems.
The deal? I help them out if they install FireFox, make it default browser and at least give it a try. Guess, it does works :) I know several ppl are now using FF *me proud* :)
Ofcoz i also go around to install new versions when available, just hope my agenda is not filled when final version 1 comes out :)

[jernst]

I "converted" many people to firefox and I have to say that I always avoided to even rename the firefox icon to Internet explorer or change the icon. Same goes for thunderbird.

IMHO my word about mozilla products being superior to ms ones should be enough and I don't like people thinking they are using IE and telling other people around that IE is great when they are in fact using firefox without knowing it.

Same goes for user agent switcher tricks.

People should start recognising the Mozilla brand names and not be ashamed to use different but superior products than Joe Avereage. Only this can lead to make these new converts convert other people around which will lead to a better web for everyone in the future.

[Neo Neko]

Idealy I would never hide the fact either. This is however just one of those irrational hard sell cases that I can't exactly write off. She has had her IE compromised several times. Even now it is. She does at least have the google bar installed to reduce popups. Her husband is fairly techy designing and opperating a major high demand web based business. But he generally uses IE as well. Though he aknowledges that Mozilla is superior. He designes mostly for ignorant IE users. So that is what he mostly uses. Although if current trends keep up he may well indeed start favoring Mozilla as adoption is picking up. His site however while being written mainly for IE users is fully functional in Gecko, Opera, and Khtml based browsers.

[neo75903]

There is another fact that ppl are hesitating to use FF. Because they have, well most of them, have an legal license for windows, they feel like a waste not to use it. At the end they think they have paid for it.
It is like buying a car and go by public transport to work.

[ultimatebilly]

It is like buying a car and go by public transport to work.
Accurate analogy! :D
With a car you have still to pay for fuel and taxes and insurance, like you have to pay with nuisances (traffic jams) and security holes (accidents) for using IE, and using public transport is much more safer and in the end certainly cheaper than using a car... ;)
But you are right of course, this certainly is a reason for some people!

[Mug Funky]

heh... from where i live public transport actually costs more than 40km worth of petrol.

sad but true. australia is a bit car-obsessed, and our transport system has been severely compromised by privatization (sorry, but a decent transport system will run at a loss - that is why it was supported by taxes in the first place... fekking economic rationalists).

*cools down*

hmm. as for the analogy, it holds to a certain degree. what would a popup translate to? getting cut off by car after car until you crash? hehe.

i just feel that Mozilla shouldn't have to hide - it's come this far already. it would be like the proud gay dude jumping back into the closet... (hmm.. i wonder if that analogy might just scare off a few potential mozilla/FF users?)

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Mug Funky
i just feel that Mozilla shouldn't have to hide - it's come this far already. it would be like the proud gay dude jumping back into the closet... (hmm.. i wonder if that analogy might just scare off a few potential mozilla/FF users?)

Hmmm well the icon is flaming. But I never thought it gay. :p :D I guess if we are going to run with the gay thing most gays don't dress like queens or butches. Most of them are some of the better dressed people around. And that is more or less what that site is about. Changing firefoxe's outfit to that of the more generally familliar/preffered IE one. Not that it is superior. Just that many are more comfortable with it because till now it was all they had to use. :p

[neo75903]

I think it would be nice if someone can write a little proggie just todo that :)

edit:
just occured to me, why dont we make IE looks like FF? Gives new users the time to get used to FF :)

[b0b0b0b]

Great link thanks for the find.

I actually like IE more than firefox, but that's just me. I do use firefox for some things though.

[Doobie]

Originally posted by b0b0b0b
I actually like IE more than firefox, but that's just me. I do use firefox for some things though.

Some men like men more than women. That may be just them, but the rest of us think there's something messed up. Firefox is a hot, young chick. IE is a greasy, hairy, older guy. Don't try to claim you were born that way. When you were a baby, you had no interest in web browsing. What went wrong?

You can change. Others have. Don't believe the hype that you can't change. The choice is yours. Just download Firefox and stop thinking about IE.

Try shock therapy. Every time you have a desire to use IE, stick you finger in the wall socket until that desire goes away. Pretty soon you'll be cured.

[b0b0b0b]

:) That's a respectable argument for not liking IE, but (here is my rebuttal) if you think about it, IE is really awesome.

[jernst]

You are right, it's an awesome medium to spread spywares, viruses and so on.
Furthermore it's an awesome way to make companies pay much more for web developement than what they'd had to pay if everybody was respecting the standards.
Last but not least it's an awesome way of keeping new (now old) technologies like png out of the scene in favour of other crappy, heavily patented, ones.

That's just my opinion, no trolling intended.

[sysKin]

I remember IE being awesome compared to Netscape, five years ago. I had never used netscape before so I decided to check it out. It was ugly and inconvinient.

Many things changed since then - but IE hasn't. Currently IE is not only a security problem (that was never a problem for me - and this was not my reason to switch). It's also a browser that has completely no features. It shows you websites, has "favorites" and has history. Anything else? I mean, anything??

It's like using a notepad.exe for writing an essay: yes, you can type every word from a dictionary, and you can make paragraphs, and you can even type digits. This is what you need to write an essay right? Or wrong?

Second reason why I can't stand IE anymore (compared to FF) is its lack of responsivness. It's kinda difficult to explain but whenever I want to do something (in particular, type in an URL or scroll with mousewheel) IE is somehow lagging behind, and not doing what I want right now. Sometimes I can't make it scool without a click and sometimes I can't make it scroll at all.

IE has became the entry-level webbrowser. Like Paint vs. Photoshop, Notepad vs MS Word (or OOo Writer), Intel Indeo vs. XviD or Media Player 6.4 vs. MPC.

[Doom9]

I don't think it's fair to put the comparison between Indeo & XviD and WMP6.4 and MPC (or IE and Mozilla/Firefox) on the same level. Indeo cannot possibly compress a DVD in 640x272 resolution and still retain quality as XviD does (or some other codecs). WMP6.4 works just fine as a media player and is in fact in many ways better than so many other player (for instance MS' successors to WMP6.4). If you just want to watch a movie, WMP6.4 will do just fine, and it pretty much supports all the new hot stuff if you have the necessary filters installed. You can't say that about Indeo. And IE generally works as a browser... it is in my experience still a tad bit faster than Firefox (which I'm using almost exclusively for a long long time now, both personally and professionally), and it is more forgiving layout-wise (and it wraps lines properly. mozilla programmers do you hear me: linewrapping of long urls rules!!). And prior to the 1.0 release there was the nasty issue about resurrecting the browser from minimized mode.

At the end of the day, both browsers work for web browsing. With SP2 the popup problem is also gone in IE. And apparently the convenience of not having to install another browser (and you do still need IE for certain things in the Windows world and that will most likely never change) outweighs the fact that you have to patch it more and be more exposed to malware. If this weren't the case, I doubt IE would still have more than 90% of the browser market. All my friends and colleagues use IE (well, there's one or two Linux freaks, but even they use IE when on Windows), and trying to get them to switch would be a futile excercise. I couldn't be nearly as convincing when it comes to convincing somebody to switch from Indeo to XviD, or from Windows 95 to XP, or give up some loathsome technology like serial and parallel interfaces and floppies (my great passion in the computer world - get rid of legacy crap).

[sysKin]

Okay I admit, perhaps the difference is not that far-reaching.
However, many people I talk to can't imagine why would they switch, as IE "is sufficient" since it shows webpages. This is a bit similar to "indeo compresses video" in the sense that it does that, and it comes with windows by default. So a person might say it works, why install something new (imagine compressing short sequences, not whole movies).

IE indeed blocks popups, if not with SP2 (hey come on, not everyone uses windows XP) then with external tools like google bar.

My firefox, however, also blocks all ads, forbids javascript from messing with my browser (resize, blocking context menu, more), has mousegestures, shows me current weather, controls winamp, shows RSS news. And has an undo button that works wonders of I close a website and want to undo. And has smart keywords too - how about a tutorial how to use forum search with these? :)

In comparison, IE really looks quite poor.

Radek

PS just to be clear, about half of these features come from extensions

[Doobie]

Originally posted by sysKin
Okay I admit, perhaps the difference is not that far-reaching.
However, many people I talk to can't imagine why would they switch, as IE "is sufficient" since it shows webpages.

It takes only a few things to dominate a market: Strong market penetration (Microsoft does this by bundling IE with Windows), extensive compatibility (usually a fait accompli for the market leader), and ability to get the job done (i.e. IE is "sufficent", people are not annoyed enough to look for alternatives).

[Doom9]

@sysKin: sure Firefox can do more, but there's tons of plugins for IE as well, and when it comes to "just surfing", a website looks the same in IE and Firefox (most of the time, it can look a lot worse (linewrapping as a for instance ;) or be plain unusable). You can't say a video encoded in XviD and Indeo looks the same. That is why many people who use IE also use XviD. But if MS shipped Windows with a codec that were as powerful as XviD, I doubt so many people would be using XviD (but since they do it shows us that XviD is apparently superior to WMV9 to the average user).

[neo75903]

Your vision has one flaw at present.
IE had the advantage being installed with Windows as such does not require the user to "install" it.
Times have changed against IE, coz if you want an equial browser as FF, they need to install SP2.

Now, try to explain to a new user, who just survived his/her first "install" to download and install a "Service Pack".
I think it now time to gain an head against IE, before the next version of IE will conquer the world with next Windows version.


Mozilla site is currently promoting version 1PR and claiming 750.000 downloads. But they have to realize that ppl like me are waiting for the final release of version 1. That is ONE download less as many others might think the same. :)

[Doobie]

Bottom line, Firefox is far better than IE. And, when the final version 1 comes out, a lot of people are going to try it and think to themselves "Why haven't all these great features been part of IE?".

A couple of examples:

Tabbed browsing for those of us who tend to have a lot of different pages open at the same time

Making extensions is easy so every annoying feature any webpage will eventually be squashed. Not just popups, but macromedia flash, window resising, etc.

[Doom9]

IE had the advantage being installed with Windows as such does not require the user to "install" it.
Times have changed against IE, coz if you want an equial browser as FF, they need to install SP2.SP2 is not a browser update, is it? ;) Installing SP2 is the smart thing to do when you have SP2 anyway, which means Firefox would be another piece of software you have to install.

[neo75903]

i know what you mean.
But my point is the fact that M$ always had the advantage from erm i call 'noobs' coz IE got installed anyway with windows.
Tell those 'noobs' to get SP2 and install it ... :)