Ateme H264 in MKV

[Sirber]

Is that possible?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't see why not!

I guess video (and audio) streams will have to be de-muxed out of the MP4 container first.

I just ran a quick test using AVI-mux to mux an an old (non Ateme) H.264/Mp3 in .avi into MKV... The file played fine in ShowTime and MPC - except for seeking.


Cheers

[bond]

it surely possible via the "vfw compatibility" mode, which, i think, will allow you to place anything in .mkv (similar to how it works in .avi i think)

the other thing is that i am not sure whether it has been already specified how to place h.264 "natively" in .mkv (we are basically still waiting on a tool which allows placing mpeg-4 asp natively into mkv :( )

[bill_baroud]

well, atm i think it would break the license you accepted as a beta-tester if you provide some files to a matroska dev to implement a native way to put h264 in mkv... and there is still no vfw codec, so ... you have need to ask ateme/nero first on that matter.


edit : well, hmm the mp4 standard is open and if ateme respect it, it should be possible without breaking any contract :whistle: but you still need some mp4 with h264 to test it.

[bond]

Originally posted by bill_baroud
well, atm i think it would break the license you accepted as a beta-tester if you provide some files to a matroska dev to implement a native way to put h264 in mkv...ateme has no monopoly on avc-in-mp4 files, their encoder is not the only one outputting such files
you can get other sample .mp4 files from the frauenhofer avc page i linked to in the thread about this codec in the new av codecs forum

+ .mp4 is only the container. you should not need avc placed in a .mp4 to create a native h.264 mkv file

and there is still no vfw codec, sowrong, to my knowledge there are already 3 existing, have a look at my mpeg-4 sticky in the new av codecs forum

[RadicalEd]

H.264 is on the todo list for MKV-supported formats here (http://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/codecid/index.html), though instead of "HDOT264", IMO, it should probably be incorporated as MPEG4/ISO/AVC. As bond said, it's possible with vfw-based H.264 codecs using vfw compatibility mode, but that's not really the ideal solution.

[bill_baroud]

Originally posted by bond
wrong, to my knowledge there are already 3 existing, have a look at my mpeg-4 sticky in the new av codecs forum

the thread title is "ateme h264 in mkv" ... not "mpeg4 AVC in mkv"
and AFAIK, there is no ateme vfw video encoder.

but true, and i said it, you can find other mp4 files containing H264 video, and use it. but i quote the ateme license :
1. All the material (files, information, etc.) you'll receive from for this beta test is confidential. It is strictly prohibited to re-distribute them without permission.

so you can't use mp4 file created with the actual ateme encoder.
and yes you can consider that my previous post was totally useless.

[SeeMoreDigital]

The H.264 streams I muxed into MKV were created using FFdshow. But I have also tried some VideoSoft AVC files, which ShowTime identifies as being Vanguard.

bond, I wonder if it's time to put more pressure on our MP4 muxing buddies!


Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by bill_baroud
the thread title is "ateme h264 in mkv" ... not "mpeg4 AVC in mkv"read my sticky plz, h.264 and mpeg-4 avc is the same, no matter who provides an encoder :rolleyes:
would you consider a .mp3 file encoded with lame to be technically different than a .mp3 file encoded with apples mp3 encoder, needing special treatment when muxing into mkv? hopefully not

and AFAIK, there is no ateme vfw video encoder.who says that ateme is the only h.264 encoder? there exists x264, vss, mpegable and hdot264 as vfw encoder

so you can't use mp4 file created with the actual ateme encoder.
and yes you can consider that my previous post was totally useless. it doesnt matter what encoder was used to create a .mp4 file, they are compliant to the same standard, like all .mp3 files are compliant to the same standard no matter what encoder has been used to create the file

[unmei]

According to my experience -you can read in bonds Fraunhofer thread in codecs- the problem at the moment is to get AVC out of the mp4 container without decoding.
3vix doesn't understand AVC. Nero filters refuse to output as AVC, they only output decoded.

Of course with vfw encoders there is no problem, i encoded directly to matroska with all i tried of them (VDM->compatibility mode). But Atheme will probably not provide a vfw encoder. For one they would have to output something avi-compatible and for the other, Ahead would probably not like that.
Same goes for Fraunhofer, except i now care less about their encoder. I will probably not use it again in foreseeable future, even less if FFDShow gets back the x264 CQ mode or the Atheme encoder goes public.

Yesterday i installed GPAC, today a new is out 0.0 - maybe the new one understands/demuxes AVC.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by unmei
According to my experience...//... the problem at the moment is to get AVC out of the mp4 container without decoding.
3vix doesn't understand AVC. Nero filters refuse to output as AVC, they only output decoded. This was my experience also, when I tried de-muxing the streams of an Sorenson created AVC encode!

I guess we will have to wait for AVC to become a lot more common before muxing tools such as mp4UI (based on MPEG4IP) will pick up the mantle.

So to sum up...

Muxing AVC .avi streams into MKV is possible.

Ateme's AVC .mp4 streams would have to be de-muxed out of the .mp4 container first, prior to muxing into another container - and the same goes for other versions of AVC in .mp4.

We need some new/revised .mp4 muxing/de-muxing tools.


Cheers

[RBF]

Unique way which I have found for today it:
AVC.mp4-->Videolan 0.7.3-->Not playable avi-->VdubMod--> playable MKV

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by RBF
Unique way which I have found for today it:
AVC.mp4-->Videolan 0.7.3-->Not playable avi-->VdubMod--> playable MKV Now that's interesting... I love this sort of thing!

I wonder if the files overhead is having any bearing here? It might be time to generate some revised overhead tests.

And given AAC audio can be muxed into all the popular containers (AVI, MP4, MOV, MKA, RAM and OGM) this experiment might yield interesting results!

Can we put Mpeg4 video in the Real container yet?


Cheers

[stephanV]

well you can leave out OGM... just look at alexnoe's tests...

also why would MPEG4 video need to get in RM? there are no RM muxing tools as far as i know... and wouldnt make much sense either...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by stephanV
...also why would MPEG4 video need to get in RM? there are no RM muxing tools as far as i know... and wouldnt make much sense either... I remember some people saying the same thing AAC audio and RealMedia!

What we need is a video stream that can be muxed into all current containers and Mpeg4 is the only one that comes close...


Cheers

[stephanV]

what we need is a RM muxing tool first :p

(also, RealAudio is/was IMO not a worthy competitor to aac. Realvideo certainly is)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by stephanV
what we need is a RM muxing tool first :p

(also, RealAudio is/was IMO not a worthy competitor to aac. Realvideo certainly is) Agreed and (agreed) :D


Cheers

[bond]

i think latest mp4creator and videolan should be able to extract raw h.264 streams out of .mp4

[Sirber]

mkvmerge failed to merge it. It tryed to use quicktime reader with fourcc AVC1.

[stephanV]

mkv doesnt accept H264 from mp4 yet...