Sony Freeze with Rebuilder & ReMakePro

[geffroman]

Hi there...

I just did Jackie Brown Bonus disc with 57a and got the "Sony Freeze" from days past... Happens in the second cell of a chapter... Has anyone else seen this in 57a? I am going back to 56 as I seemed to have no issues there... I'll redo Jackie Brown Bonus and see what the response it with 56...

Clearly I don't know if it's the old problem crept back in... But the sympton is he same...

[jdobbs]

That fix for the Sony issue hasn't changed at all. Make sure you aren't experiencing a bad disc issue.

[naiden_99]

Yes, I did U-571 R4 with DVD-RB 57a and the old problem with Sony players come back.

I dont know if this is the same old problem, but in the meantime I think I will stick with v56 as it seems to not have this problem.

By the way jdobbs, your program ROCKS.:cool:

naiden_99

[geffroman]

Hi jdobbs...

I ran three discs before posting... redid 57a twice with same result... I started with BeAll DVD-R which is very stable... I am using Sony DVD+RW now to make sure burn is clean before burning more coasters...

After looking carefully at the troubled data I find it occurred just after starting a new chapter... There was NOT more than one cell per chapter this time...

Hope that helps...

Edit... I went back and took another look and found post processing with ReMake did NOT correct the freeze this time.

[jdobbs]

Okay, guys... you are making me pull my hair out. None of that code has changed. Here is the fix that went into v0.56 that fixed the Sony problem:

- Fixed and error in which the PTM of the last frame of the last GOP of a VOB was sometimes incorrectly calculated and placed in NAVPACKS. This, very possibly, was the cause of reported "freezing" on some Sony players.

That fix is still in place. Frankly, after reversing the code to 0.57 and making it 0.57a there is very little difference in the code between it and 0.56. Here is the totality of the changes:

- QuEnc flags are now set to work -- if you don't use QuEnc, no effect

- Corrected flags when using Decomb -- if you don't use decomb, no effect

- Same for disable interlaced.

- Enabled logging.

None of this code is even remotely related to the Sony issue that was fixed... please make sure you do a thorough test.

[geffroman]

I'll rerun both 57a and 56 one more time each and make sure I cab replicate the problem a third time... If so I'll post notice here and provide a link to the IFOs... :)

Keep in mind the current issue is a freeze similar to the Sony issue. But as I own Sony I don't know if this time it's limited to Sony or if it's something else all together different. I'll run the finished disks on other brands before I post again. Couple of days...

[naiden_99]

I own a Sony and a Samsung player and the movie freezes only on the Sony.

In fact of all the problems I had with my backups the Sony is the one that fails most often (95%).

I think Sony is less forgiving with the DVD specifications.


naiden_99

[jdobbs]

One of two things has to be true.

1. It has changed back somehow -- which I believe not to be true.
2. It was never really fixed to begin with.

Either way it sucks.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by jdobbs
One of two things has to be true.

1. It has changed back somehow -- which I believe not to be true.
2. It was never really fixed to begin with.

Either way it sucks.

I have a SONY standalone and today just did a backup of Chicago with RB 0.57a. I will check it tomorrow if it helps.
A couple of days ago a backup of Monsters Inc. was done for my daughter with RB v. 0.56 and it plays fine.

[naiden_99]

Hi jdobbs!

Dont know if this helps but I have noticed that most of my freezing backups freezes around what was the original layer break.

As I said most of them BUT not all, as some others freezes in several places during the movie (I have checked this and it seems to be at scene changes and always in the same places).


naiden_99

[nwg]

I have a Sony NS900 and so far every version of DVD-RB has worked flawlessly with it.

[naiden_99]

My Sony is a NS400D.

Do you think this could be a model specific problem?

Also I have made about 40 backups with various versions of DVD-RB and around 10 have the freeze problem (not all with same version of DVD-RB).

naiden_99

[RaistlinMajere]

My Sony is a NS400D.

Do you think this could be a model specific problem?


I have two sonys from two different generations a mid range Sony NS535 and a high end Sony NS900V. The errors i had with frezzing were identical on both systems so I assume its right across the sony range, at least the generations from around 2 years back.

I have not had any trouble with rb since the 56test version. Its working fine here . Excellent job Jdobbs :p

Just the multiangle support needed and I this app will truely be the dogs bits.

I am a bit in strife money wise at moment due to been about to relocate to a new city for a new job, but once my cashflow goes into the black again I will be sending some £'s jdobbs way to buy jdobbs a few beers to say thanks :D

[erdoke]

Originally posted by erdoke
I have a SONY standalone and today just did a backup of Chicago with RB 0.57a. I will check it tomorrow if it helps.
A couple of days ago a backup of Monsters Inc. was done for my daughter with RB v. 0.56 and it plays fine.

Found no problems except for my stupidity with the mentioned backup... (left only DTS audio stream of my language) :devil:

[jdobbs]

I'm starting to feel better... as this wasn't making any sense. I was starting to think it might be phases of the moon or sunspots that originally fixed it. Of course there was always the possbility of extraterrestrial influence.

[erdoke]

You never know. Maybe UFOs helped out my player too when struggling with the movie backed up with RB 0.57a.:D

[geffroman]

Well I have been able to duplicate the freeze with Jackie Brown Bonus disc and 57a... So I am going to run it again to make triple sure... Now I will also run it with Ver 58... I have to get it done before we have Ver 59 too... LOL... I just need enough time to give up my computer for 15 hours of processing for 56, 57a and 58... :)

[RaistlinMajere]

I know its not about strictly about rb but since this is a sony orientated thread.

Some of the multi-episode discs I have. I've done with tmpgenc and ifoedit because they have multiangles have given me sony trouble as well. Everything was done properly using the new lost frames fixed dvd2avi and I frame txt file. Remuxed with ifoedit without anything been striped.

This seems to effect maybe 1 in 5 discs but the backups work perfectly in my friends dvd players and fine on the computer but when i play them on my sony's i get a wierd problem. When you select an affected episode it plays about half a second worth skips to the next chapter plays half a sec and keep skips chapters to the next episode title. I am not sure what causes it but this and the freezing problems i used to have with rb were at the beginning of cells not the end.

There must be something that sony's are really fussy with that causes this. A shame as I think they make excellent players.

edit - forgot to mention, the bits effected were not multiangle parts of the discs.

[geffroman]

Ha Ha Ha ... I knew it would happen... I just finished running Ver 56, 57a and 58 on this issue... I am burning discs as we speak... I even ran to the store to buy some BRAND new Sony DVD+RWs to run these for the test... and BANG... Ver 59 is out... guess I'll be running it one more time tonight... It takes longer to process a movie than it takes jdobbs to come out with a new release... :D

Update: Problem duplicated/triplicated with 57a again.

Ver 56 - Freeze Evident (seems version number is NOT the issue)
Ver 57a - Freeze Evident
Ver 58 - Freeze Evident
Ver 59 - working on it
DVD Shrink 3.2 - NO FREEZE

All discs run on 3 machines:
Sony Jukebox DVP-CX875P (All Versions Freeze)
Sony DVP-NS325 (All Versions Freeze)
Apex AD-2600 (NO FREEZING)

Post Process with DVDReMake results:
Ver 56 - Makes NO difference - Freeze evident!
Ver 57a - Makes NO difference - Freeze evident!
Ver 58 - Makes NO difference - Freeze evident!
Ver 59 - working on it

IFO files to be posted when all tests done.

[geffroman]

IFO files from testing posted HERE (http://posunplugged.com/freeze)

Anyone with a clue encouraged to help solve the Sony Freeze issue. I am not smart enough to fix it. Thanks.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by geffroman
IFO files from testing posted HERE (http://posunplugged.com/freeze)

Anyone with a clue encouraged to help solve the Sony Freeze issue. I am not smart enough to fix it. Thanks.

It seems that it's not a "SONY Freeze issue".
I guess that you preprocess the DVD before enter it into DVD Rebuilder. DVDReMake (Pro) 2.3.4?
Pls take a look at the screenshot I made of PGCEdit when opened one of the problematic cells (it's the same with all multicell PGCs):
Screenshot (http://erdoke.uw.hu/Pix/GeffromansIFOs.jpg)

You should OK the popup "Fix it?" window and check the "Layer break" option of the second cell, thus changing the value from 10 to 2. It should solve your problem which I think comes not from RB.

[geffroman]

I will run a virgin copy of the disc to see if the problem still occurs with RB.

My question is if this is NOT an RB issue, why does Shrink not have the problem with the same data?

Are you saying DVDReMake is causing the problem?

My experience has been that if anything DVDReMake has corrected past RB freeze problems.

Thanks for your help.

[erdoke]

Originally posted by geffroman
My question is if this is NOT an RB issue, why does Shrink not have the problem with the same data?

Are you saying DVDReMake is causing the problem?

My experience has been that if anything DVDReMake has corrected past RB freeze problems.


Shrink is either repairing this problem or you simply didn't use DRM before it.

And yes, this is a known "issue" of DRM with some types of movies:
DRM Forum link (http://www.cdr-zone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=979&start=30)

EDIT: Hmm, I see the original and Shrink IFOs are just the same regarding the layer breaks and the error message PGCEdit gives. So this is not a DRM issue. Have to look further for the SONY problem.

[geffroman]

I don't think you have it... PGCEdit sees the same issue with the the SHRINK IFOs I posted, yet they do not cause the freeze...

ALL tests were run with exactly the same original files. I posted those IFOs as well.

Only the files processed with RB freeze and only on the Sony players...

[erdoke]

Originally posted by geffroman
I don't think you have it... PGCEdit sees the same issue with the the SHRINK IFOs I posted, yet they do not cause the freeze...

ALL tests were run with exactly the same original files. I posted those IFOs as well.

Only the files processed with RB freeze and only on the Sony players...

Yep, I recognized this myself meanwhile and edited my previous post. It seemed so obvious though...:(

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by geffroman
I don't think you have it... PGCEdit sees the same issue with the the SHRINK IFOs I posted, yet they do not cause the freeze...

ALL tests were run with exactly the same original files. I posted those IFOs as well.

Only the files processed with RB freeze and only on the Sony players... As I've mentioned before, DVDShrink works completely differently than DVD-RB -- if it had to reencode and reauthor it might experience the difficulties as well. But it doesn't so the comparison is not apples to apples.

[geffroman]

Sorry I havent been able to followup on this issue as I started it... But I was adding some harddisk space and blew up an 8 drive raid system on my personal pc... been recovering raid drive images and reconstructing drives for two days... what a pain...

I'll get back on this in a couple days and prove it's a DVDReMake related issue or NOT and come back to you guys with the problem still outstanding if it still occurs with virgin (non ReMake processed) data...

Update: System rebuilt... ah, how nice to have a fresh operating system... feels good... tastes great... anyway virgin disc data for the troublesome Jackie Brown Bonus disc is in the Batch Queue of RB-59 and should done in about 20 hours... Don't you just love batching...

[geffroman]

Final Test Results done...

I have re-titled this thread to be more appropriate.

So far I have learned that we have a two fold problem. Some have told me it is a ReMake issue. I see it as Rebuilder related. Fact is, it requires Rebuilder AND ReMake AND a Sony player to create this problem.

Simply put there is a FREEZE issue on Sony players when using REBUILDER on REMAKE data. jdobbs says not to compare the results of Shrink as it is a different tool altogether. However, the Remake data on it's own or compressed by other means does NOT cause the freeze. The Rebuilder data on it's own does not cause the freeze. Used together these programs cause the freeze. So if REMAKE data works until REBUILDER tears it apart and puts it back together REBUILDER has some involvement.

I am only interested in a solution. This is NOT about assigning blame. I hope anyone that chooses to look into this with me keeps that in mind. There is NO better solution for automated compression than REBUILDER. There is NO better solution for automated editing than REMAKE. Let's try to tear down the wall and make these programs work together.

You can find one of the FREEZEs by selecting DELETED SCENES... Select PLAY ALL... First obvious freeze occurs between deleted scene 1 and 2... If you select scene 2 the freeze will not happen... If you let scene one end and the dvd navigates to scene two, freeze will occur at the beginning of the scene where Jackie Brown is talking to Michael Keaton in the restaurant.

Thanks for any assistance.

IFO files located here (http://posunplugged.com/freeze)

[erdoke]

I've downloaded your IFOs and hope that will have time to play with them soon. I use the same combination of DRM-RB-SONY...

[naiden_99]

I don't think this is entirely true, at least for my problem with Sony freezing.

The reason I have to say this is thatI don't use DVDRemake (I don't have DVDRemake) to preprocess my backups, only Decrypter or Shrink to rip and then Rebuilder to encode.

Also, I must say that in some of my backups I DID use Shrink to take out some parts of the disk (Audio tracks, subtitles, trailers, etc) before I use Rebuilder.

This issue with freezing on Sony players is really only a small glitch in a otherwise GREAT program, and I hope that JDOBBS wil find a fix for it soon.


naiden_99

[geffroman]

Originally posted by naiden_99
This issue with freezing on Sony players is really only a small glitch in a otherwise GREAT program, and I hope that JDOBBS wil find a fix for it soon.

Ha Ha... Well your movie just STOPPING is a pretty big fricken small glitch...

And frankly, I don't think jdobbs is looking into anything that involves preprocessed data... So I am hoping others will join in to help solve...