Result on first dual layer burn...

[flash]

Ripped disc to hard drive with DVDDecrypter 3.5.1.0 (ISO)
Burned to Datasafe 2.4x media with Decrypter loading MDS file.
On Pioneer 108 firmware v1.10
Resulted with the following:

Pioneer 525: loads Disc fine pixelation on layer change then freezes,
will not play any of second layer.

Panasonic HS2 Recorder: loads fine pixelation on layer change but gets through it eventually.

Pacific 1002: would not load the first time,opened then shut the draw
and the it loaded ok does not pixelate on layer change but freezes now and again. you can hear the lazer really working hard to find to info.

LiteOn HD165 firmware C12: plays untill layer break then freezes finally comes up with error (disc may be damaged)

[Séamus]

If all these players run into more or less the same probs, I think it's the media, just a guess, have you tried another brand ? Verbatim ?

[kevinswystun]

Disappointing to say the lest. Is this the Dual Layer technology we’ve been waiting for? I mean, layer break freezes and (3) disk/standalone incompatibilities. I hope it’s a matter of cheap media or old equipment, not more incompatibility problems that only buying new DVD players will solve.

[alexnoe]

Don't use Ritek crap media. The only working DVD+R DL media at the moment is Verbatim: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/CDF/Dual_Layer_Writing/read_Toshiba_1712_padded.png

The LiteOn 165 DVD-ROM requires that the disc be filled up to the last sector, then it can read it (i.e. the Layer Break *must* be at 2,086,912):
http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/CDF/Dual_Layer_Writing/read_LiteOn165_padded.png

When I once called LG because of the problem that Nero kills DVD+R DL discs, the first question they asked was: "do you use Verbatim discs? Other discs are not supported....". And as you can see in my read curve, those are supported *properly*

[thensa]

I too have had similair experiences with Ritek DL media, basically pixelation at the layer change area. The 2 Verbatims I tried didnt suffer from this problem but I did still have troublke because I burned them slightly incorrectly.

[flash]

thensa what do you mean when you said "I did still have trouble because I burned them slightly incorrectly" ?

[thensa]

I used Nero which does not handle the layer change correctly yet, even though it has the layer magic shit it is flawed in the way it does it.

[alexnoe]

layer magic = divide the already calculated total disc size by 2 and round it to the next multiple of 16 ...

[flash]

Do you thensa or anybody else no about bitsetting how do you do it?
I have heard that you can change DVD+ to DVD-Rom and you get better results?

[alexnoe]

By using the Bitsetting function in dvd decrypter?

[thensa]

If all you want to do is bit set it to DVD-ROM then no need as the pioneer 108 firmware defaults the book type to DVD-ROM anyway for maximum compatibility.

[flash]

Thanks for that! makes you wonder what discs and software Pioneer used to test this drive before it's release?

[thensa]

I think Verbatim discs would have been the only ones available to Pioneer at the time of testing. Its a shame because the Ritek DL's are only costing me £3.95 + VAT each the Verb's are costing £7.99 + VAT.

Hopefully things will go the same way as single layer discs did in the early days where they improve the dye up to the quality of Ritek G04 which is cheap but very good.

[flash]

Nice to talk to you in real time,I will maybe try a Verbatim or just wait a few months to see what develops, only early days yet. Better get back to work;) Cheers

[alexnoe]

Problem:

DVD+R DL discs must have a minimum reflexivity of 16%
DVD-ROM9 must have 18%
Verbatim DVD+R DL are slightly above 18%

-> a disc which is compliant to the DVD+R DL standard can still be incompatible with players due to too low reflexivity. Thus, the problem that cheap discs don't work will IMHO deteriorate, and certainly not improve.

I think Verbatim discs would have been the only ones available to Pioneer at the time of testing. Its a shame because the Ritek DL's are only costing me £3.95 + VAT each the Verb's are costing £7.99 + VAT.Verbatim throws half their DL discs away because half the discs they produce are bad. Now guess why Riteks are much cheaper...

[atreides93]

I hope the dual layer quality gets up to a level above ritek g04...i no longer buy g04's, because of varying degrees of reliability...most of the ones i got can't burn at 4x.

[thensa]

Interesting stuff alexnoe, where did you find this stuff out ? I would like to learn more. You dont think cheap -r's improved dramatically since the G01 days ?

[alexnoe]

No, they got worse.

When I got my first DVD-R in december 2001, there were only Verbatim discs....then one crap disc type after the other arrived, trying to be cheaper than the last crap disc type...the fight for the lowest price is the problem for cheap discs.

The numbers I have about reflexivity are taken from the C'T

I've got a few Ritek G01, and unlike newer Princo crap, they are still readable...

[hendrix]

ive had great results using Mitsubishi double layers...i do all my burning via DVDDecrypter and never had a problem..........yet

[kevinswystun]

Wow, that’s a relief! I was going to cross a new DL Burner off my Christmas list because of what I’ve read in this thread. Burning single layer DVD’s, I’ve always used Verbatim (Mitsubishi Chemical Company), so I won’t change brands. But what does the majority say; with good media (MCC), will a DL –DVD play in a newer ( < 2001 ) standalone DVD play? Should I put it back on my list to Santa?

[alexnoe]

Try it out....MCC DVD+R DL discs are closer to the DVD-ROM standard than the DVD+R DL standard actually requires, so if you use a writer which has good write quality and which is capable of bitsetting (like NEC 3500, LG 4120B, Pio A08), the odds are pretty good.

For example, an old Pioneer DVD-115 can read such discs flawlessly.