AR problems with 4:3 AVI's

[ChickenMan]

I'm trying to convert some avi's (TV caps, DVD trailers, etc) with 4:3 aspect ratio to dvd. I have done this 100's of time before using D2S ver 1.2.2 b1 and earlier and all has been fine. Installed new 1.2.2 b2a and it now adds a boarder to left and right sides of the picture :( Added borders are from 90 to 115. I've tried avi of 352x288 to 720x576 and everywhere in between, same result. Same if using D2SRoBa.

The Avisynth_Script_file.avs of a small test 720x567 avi converting to a 720x576 mpeg2 was:

LoadPlugin("E:\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
AVISource("I:\TEST2A~1.AVI",audio=false)
ConvertToYUY2()
Import("E:\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\RoBaConditional.avs")
LanczosResize(506,576)
AddBorders(107,0,107,0)
Import("H:\TEMP3\ResampleAudio.avs")
ResampleAudio(44100)

Install back to v 1.2.2 b1 and all is well again. Have only done 1 16:9 AVI and it can out with correct AR, its just the 4:3 are weird.

Anyone else have this problem ?

Cheers,
cm

[dvd2svcd]

According to the AR math wizards the former versions had a wrong AR. You can tryout jsotos AVIRes, I'm using the math from that program.

[ChickenMan]

The former version had crazy results for 16:9 to 2.3:1 but always correct for 4:3. Version 1.2.1 b3 was correct for both 4:3 and 16:9.

I have my own calculator that works also, but then I cant run D2S it in Batch mode and have to tick "Edit as part of Video Encoding" to edit the avisynth script for each. Converting a bunch of 20min TV caps would take for ever if each script has to be manually edited.

A while back, I was given a program called AVIRes (no idea of the author) but can find no reference to it via Google. I have used that also for calculating the correct AR for widescreen/leterboxed avi's in the past with good results (same results as my own Excel spreadsheet and based on the numbers in the Q&A posted above). But just checked it for 4:3 stuff and it also throws in left & right borders :( If I take a 720x576 small trailor off a DVD and convert to DixV 720x576 with VirtualDUB (done a long time ago). I then take that same AVI and convert back to dvdr 720x576 so I can put them back onto a dvd, then I get 100 pixel borders added. Something is wrong. As I said, ealier versions had 4:3 right ( I really cant see how that can go wrong), its generally been with 16:9 AR that things went wrong.

Cheers,
CM

[Nick]

The problem really is that from square-pixel AVI sources there are 2 things you could need to do, these being resize/border for a 16:9 display or resize/border for a 4:3 display.

DVD2SVCD has 3 options for output aspect ratio, one of which is therefore useless. To resize any AVI correctly for a 4:3 display, use 16:9, Borders added, Encode as 4:3. To resize for a 16:9 display, use Anamorphic.

4:3 no borders actually uses the anamorphic script but without the anamorphic flag set. It is of no use and should not be used from avi sources.

Perhaps the text in the Aspect Ratio dropdown box could be revised to make it easier to understand but the maths is definitely correct. If you want to do avi2xxx and your source is 4:3 square pixel, 16:9 borders added, encode as 4:3 will resize it correctly.

Cheers
Nick

[ChickenMan]

Sorry, but just tried "16:9 (encode as 4:3") with the same 720x576 avi file and I then get:

LoadPlugin("E:\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
AVISource("I:\TEST2A~1.AVI",audio=false)
ConvertToYUY2()
Import("E:\DVD2SVCD\Tylo\RoBaConditional.avs")
LanczosResize(676,576)
AddBorders(22,0,22,0)

Borders are still being added to Left and right and squashing the picture. Not as large as before but still there. As I have said before, ALL versions of D2S prior to this have ALWAYS given a correct 720x576 output with no borders added when encoding a 4:3 using the "4:3 (No borders, encode as 4:3)" option.

I have just downloaded ver 1.2.2 b3, but there appears no change for this in the change log.

Cheers,
CM

[Nick]

just re-read your last post. Your avi is not square pixel!
Unfortunately there is simply no way to cover every possible combination of PAR and DAR so the maths is right for 1:1 PAR (ie square pixel) avi's only.
Indeed, older versions did get it right for DVD-framesize 4:3 avi's but got things wrong for pretty much everything else.

As it is impossible to please everybody, and most one-click avi making programs are geared to 1:1 PAR, it seemed sensible to make these the ones it gets right.

If your avi's are of DVD framesize to start with you actually don't need to resize anyway.

Edit the file "avisynth.ini" - find it in your DVD2SVCD installation folder and open in Notepad.

Copy and paste the following to the bottom of this file and resave.

[AVISYNTH_NoResize]
0=# -=NO RESIZING WILL OCCUR!=-

Ensure DVD2SVCD is NOT RUNNING while you do this!
Then select NoResize in the Frameserver tab as your resize method and it should work a treat.

[ChickenMan]

Thanks for that, yes I understand all that. It has worked with ALL previous versions selecting the 4:3 encode option, just not with this latest.

I just tried one I did last week, its 576x432 NTSC, an EXACT 4:3. Selecting 4:3 "(no aded borders, encode as 4:3)" (as I have always done, I get 90 pixel border added. :( If I select the illogical "16:9 (encode as 4:3)" it come out correct :)

So this tells me if the avi is close to 4:3 but not exact, then I will get an distored incorrect AR ouput. I think I will just go back to an older version of D2S as this would be all to difficult to explain to newbies that follow my guides. People capture from their cameras as 720x576/480, save as an AVI, then edit. Now thay can't convert them to DVD correctly with D2S without resorting to making a No Resize script.

Cheers,
CM

[Nick]

So this tells me if the avi is close to 4:3 but not exact, then I will get an distored incorrect AR ouput

I don't quite follow that.
If you have an avi which is not quite 4:3, choosing "16:9 add borders" will add the necessary borders for it to look correct on a 4:3 display.

say for example you had 2 avi's, one was 800x600 (ie 4:3), the other was 800:560 (not quite 4:3).
If you loaded them both into DVD2SVCD and selected 16:9 Borders added, the first would fill the 4:3 display, the second would have slim borders top and bottom to give correct AR for a 4:3 display.

Are you suggesting that both should be resized to fill the display with no borders? If so, I cannot agree. If the source is not quite 4:3 then neither should the output be :confused:. As I understand it the avi container does not allow for AR flagging in the same way that MPEG streams do. So there is no way of determining the PAR and herein lies the problem. There is no way of second-guessing what PAR the creator of any avi file chose to use, so 1:1 has to be assumed.

As for capture footage, I don't see a "no resize" script as something to "resort to". It is an easy addition to the script and as far as I can see there is no possible better way to do it than capture at target resolution and not resize at all.

[ChickenMan]

"So this tells me if the avi is close to 4:3 but not exact, then I will get an distored incorrect AR ouput"

I was really refering to a 720x576 (AR of 1:1.25) rather than a 768x576 (AR of 1:1.33333), one gives correct AR encode, the other does not. Same would apply to a 352x288.

The whole point I'm making here is back in version 1.2.1 b3, regardless of what AVI I fed into it nor its AR, I got a 4:3 output everytime if I selected "4:3 (No Borders, encode as 4:3)". If there was any hint that it was 16:9 or wider, then the "Anamorphic (No borders, encode as 16:9)" took care of them correctly everytime. That sounds pretty simple to me. This latest version simply doesnt do that. 1.2.2 b1 had problems with anything wider than 16:9 so we all had to use a calculator to correct for it (a real pain in the butt really as you cant use Batch mode).

Now if it's a 4:3 avi, you have to select "16:9 (Borders added, encode as 4:3)" when no actual borders are added and its not a 16:9, so logic doesnt suggest that to be selected (only ever used for VCD or SVCD output as far as I'm concerned, not DVD). If it a 720x576, then you cant select any but include a special No Resize script.

People just want to be able to run D2S, load in thier captured AVI, select 4:3 (cause that what it appeas as on their TV and Monitor) and encode expecting a 4:3 output. They were able to do this with ALL prior version, just not this latest. Things have gome backwards IMHO.

[Nick]

People just want to be able to run D2S, load in thier captured AVI, select 4:3 (cause that what it appeas as on their TV and Monitor) and encode expecting a 4:3 output. They were able to do this with ALL prior version, just not this latest.

Unfortunately this is not the case. That may be what you want to do :) !
"People", on the other hand, want to use AVI2DVD to convert a wide variety of material from AVI format to DVDR. AVI unfortunately covers a multitude of possibilities. But the one thing it doesn't have is any form of DAR flag. Since AVI's have no DAR flag, the only way to determine DAR is from the resolution. Surely, therefore, a 1.25:1 AVI clip plays back on a PC at 1.25:1 and not 1.33:1. Unless, that is, you have a player which allows you to manually select an AR. This being so , how can D2S use anything other than input resolution to determine the output parameters?

OK, the AR dropdown in the conversion tab is no longer logical.
Ideally it should offer two options - border/resize for 4:3 output and border/resize for 16:9 output. The three options are indeed illogical as only two of them work and even then one is poorly described. This is absolutely fair comment. However, I made an AVI of resolution 512x64. I fed this into 1.2.1B3 and selected 4:3 No borders but yet in the preview, large borders were added.

Thus I can't see how the remainder of your post can hold true.
If you take a look at Q62 of the faq, this is what you used to have to do to get 1:1 PAR AVI's to resize correctly. From 1.2.1B3 onwards, things got worse and AVI's were causing more and more problems. Jsoto wrote the AviRes routine to address this and feedback from the forum was favourable. His maths has now been incorporated into DVD2SVCD.

All those who used to need AviRes are now winners with this new build.
Obviously, however, by altering the scripts to resize 1:1 PAR AVI's correctly, people who use AVI's with different PAR's lose out. I cannot see a way around this as in theory you can use any PAR you like for an AVI but there is nothing intrinsic to the file itself to deliver this information to DVD2SVCD. However, I appreciate and sympathise that if you convert capture footage which was captured at target resolution for DVDR or (S)VCD, DVD2SVCD no longer works as "one-click".

The only possible way around this I can think of to broaden the spectrum of avi's it works with would be to offer five options in the AR dropdown for AVI files!

1.border/resize from 1:1 for 4:3 output - as per 16:9 Borders added in the 122B3
2.border/resize from 1:1 for 16:9 output - as per 16:9 Anamorphic in 122B3
3.Force fullscreen 4:3 - resizes to target framesize, no borders, 4:3 AR flag (for capture2DVDR/(S)VCD users with 4:3 material)
4.Force fullscreen 16:9 - resizes to target framesize, no borders, 16:9 AR flag (for capture2DVDR users with 16:9 material)
5.Force letterboxed frame - resizes and adds borders as if the input was pure 16:9 for 4:3 output (for (S)VCD users with 16:9 material).

To me, this just sounds hideously complicated but then I don't have a video cam. I do some VHS capture but have always done this at target res. and used a non-resizing script as discussed above. However, if I were able to convince the author on this one (after all it's not my software so I can promise nothing), do you think this 5-option idea would keep all camps happy?

If not, I would really appreciate your input on how you feel we could progress on this issue. Because old versions of D2S may have pleased you as a converter of captured footage but I can assure you they didn't please everybody. So backtracking to the old scripts is certainly an unsatisfactory option.

Cheers
Nick

[ChickenMan]

Originally posted by Nick
However, I appreciate and sympathise that if you convert capture footage which was captured at target resolution for DVDR or (S)VCD, DVD2SVCD no longer works as "one-click".
Thank you. Please bear in mind, there was no announcment of this change other than a comment in the Change log that suggests the AVI AR calcs have been fixed.

The 5 suggestion you have indicated for AR are fine, except I would reduce that down to 3, the first 3. I feel Number 4 would be rarely needed (does anyone actually capture in 16:9 format, maybe one day soon but not now) and number 5 should be greyed out if DVD output is selected and only appear if SVCD/VCD is output form (this is a dieing need) and then should replace option 3. So it would end up as

1. 4:3 Fullscreen forced output
2. 4:3 Fullscreen from 1:1 AVI's
3. 16:9 Anamorphic from 1:1 AVI's
4. 16:9 (Borders added encoded as 4:3) - to appear only if SVCD/VCD output is the option and to replace option 3.

That should then cover 90+% of peoples options for converting AVI's. Any outside that can still use AVIRes.

[Nick]

As I don't do much capture I am indebted for your input.
Is it the case, then, that digital video cameras (for now) are all 4:3?
VHS is obviously 4:3 and most TV captures at the moment are 4:3. So captures of 16:9 footage should be rare for now, right?

The reason I ask is that the changes we're proposing here need a fairly drastic rewrite of the resizing code. Now, at the moment, what the "4:3, no borders, encode as 4:3" option does is use the script for a 1:1 AVI -> Anamorphic resize, with the 4:3 flag set. This cannot possibly (as far as I can see) be of any use to anyone!

If this first option were changed to the forced 4:3 option proposed above, then 4:3 no borders would work for capture footage.
The other two options would resize 16:9 footage (which at the moment is likely to be movie conversions and therefore 1:1 PAR) correctly for 4:3 or 16:9 output respectively, and as you say, the other options are not really needed yet.

So if it were
4:3 no borders = 4:3 forced as above, no borders possible unless they were in the original avi.

16:9 borders = resize/border of any 1:1 PAR footage (including 16:9 :) ) for 4:3 output

16:9 anamorphic = resize/border of any 1:1 PAR footage (including 16:9 :) ) for 16:9 output

can you see any complaints in the short to medium term? The three main options you proposed above are all implemented. Only 16:9 capture could forseeably cause a problem and if this is rare then IMO everyone wins with this proposal.

I think for now, if you are convinced it would work, it would be easier to get implemented (I need a coherent argument to present to the author and since I bugged him to death about the old resizer, a large slice of humble pie), and would save a total rewrite! The question is, is it an accpetable compromise for all (or at least most - you'll never please everyone)

Give it some thought and get back if you'd be so kind.

Cheers
Nick

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Nick
Since AVI's have no DAR flag, the only way to determine DAR is from the resolution. I presume you're talking about Mpeg4 AVI's? If so, there's now an tool that will allow you to insert the required DAR or PAR signalling code directly into the stream header.

It's called MPEG4 Modifier and it's available here: - http://www.moitah.net/

Of course, once the signalling info has been inserted, you need an Mpeg4 DSdec filter to decode it. NeroDigital have such a filter (within NVE), so do 3ivx and XviD are currently working on one!

If you meant DV.avi then please ignore my rambling....


Cheers

[stephanV]

Originally posted by Nick
AVI unfortunately covers a multitude of possibilities. But the one thing it doesn't have is any form of DAR flag.


well it does... its called VIDEOPROPERTYHEADER, unfortunately it gets ignored by DS splitters.

[Nick]

@ SMV - And herein lies the problem!
We are talking about a program which converts AVI to DVD.
If we sort out the resize to work with capture footage (not usually 1:1 PAR), everyone complains it doesn't work with MPEG4 video which is usually 1:1 PAR. And of course, now we've fixed it for 1:1 PAR, we've rocked the applecart for the capture guys.

We're searching for as close as possible to a universal solution without introducing a newbie-proof array of different options.

However, if one day soon most AVI formats included a DAR flag, this would be very interesting stuff and would save us a whole load of hassles! I shall try to keep in touch with developments on this. It is also another development it would be nice to wait for before I start bugging the author again for rewrites of the AVI resizing code. I actually think he wants to kill me! :eek:

@ StefanV - are you saying all AVI's contain a flag setting AR? If this is so, but ignored by DS, how does one read it? Or does this still only apply to certain AVI formats?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Nick
@ SMV - And herein lies the problem!
We are talking about a program which converts AVI to DVD.
If we sort out the resize to work with capture footage (not usually 1:1 PAR), everyone complains it doesn't work with MPEG4 video which is usually 1:1 PAR. And of course, now we've fixed it for 1:1 PAR, we've rocked the applecart for the capture guys. This is very interesting indeed.

I'm having a hell of a time trying to convince some people over on the Mpeg4 forums, that the 'default' PAR settings they've added to their encoders (supposedly, in an effort to make anamorphic encoding simpler) are incorrect.

Apparently they are all based on the ITU spec. However, they are using 704 horizontal pixels as their start calculation point. Instead of a DVD's 720 horizontal pixels.

In my opinion they are making things far more complicated than they should be. Like you say. All the majority of people want are tools that work... they don't need to be bogged down reading loads of technical stuff informing them, how and why it works!

The topic of AR and anamorphic AR, is too complicated a task for many people to grasp anyway!


Cheers

[dvd2svcd]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
The topic of AR and anamorphic AR, is too complicated a task for many people to grasp anyway!It certainly have for me lately :(

[stephanV]

Originally posted by Nick
@ StefanV - are you saying all AVI's contain a flag setting AR? If this is so, but ignored by DS, how does one read it?
I dont think that there is any program that puts a value for that flag. So there wouldnt be much point in reading it anyway. And since MS AVI splitter wont read it, im having very much doubt that there will be programs that ever will do. In any case it is not a limitation of the AVI container, but one of the programs that write and read avi files. My message was pure informational, it had no real value to solve this particular problem. (maybe i should shut up more :rolleyes: )


Or does this still only apply to certain AVI formats?

I'm not sure if this is limited to openDML avis, it might very well be. Which would make it even more useless, since there are only a handfull of programs that can write (partly) openDML avis. I only know of 2 (VirtualDub and AVIMux GUI... and MS AVI muxer, but that one is broken).

Nevermind me, continue as you were :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by stephanV
I dont think that there is any program that puts a value for that flag. So there wouldnt be much point in reading it anyway. And since MS AVI splitter wont read it, im having very much doubt that there will be programs that ever will do. Eh

Both 3ivx and XviD allow you to manually set the DAR and PAR values within Mpeg4 .AVI stream

http://img85.exs.cx/img85/1803/XviD_AR_signalling.gif

Granted the above example is not a perfect example, because it highlight that somebody over at XviD hasn't quite grasped the concept of DAR - it's listed here as being 'Picture Aspect Ratio'.

Also, when it's comes to playing say, XviD anamorphic Mpeg4 it's advisable to use their own DSdecoder filter, as none of Micro$oft's decoder filters, decode non Microsoft MPEG-4 v3 video streams anyway! Does that bit make sense?

Hopefully, XviD will release their new 'open source' Mpeg4 DSdec filter very soon. So we can all finally decode and re-encode video as it should be!


Cheers

[stephanV]

@SMD

that is probably not the same. i assume that uses a flag in the MPEG4 bitstream and not in the avi container itself.

a MPEG4 decoder doesnt read data from avi files, only that data it gets presented from the avi splitter. as far as i know there are only two avi splitters: one from microsoft and one from gabest.

[SeeMoreDigital]

With XviD's version of Mpeg4 and Moitah's MPEG4 Modifier tool the anamorphic signalling is embedded within the bit-stream.

3ivx on the other hand, place their anamorphic signalling in both the Mpeg4 bit-stream and the AVI container (AFAIK).

In my opinion embedding the anamorphic signalling within the bit-stream is the better option. As it's preserved in whatever container you put it in, such as MP4 or MKV or even MPG.

When it comes to the AVI splitter (whether it be Microsoft's or Gabest's) I'll be honest when I say, I don't know how much relevances it has with what wants to be done here!?!

All I can say is, Koepi's 'proposed' DSdec filter (v1.1.x) works.

On a slightly different note. Has anybody here tried using any of Ahead's applications to import say, an 4:3 or 16:9 DAR/PAR Mpeg4 and convert it to Mpeg2/VOB? I ask because I wonder if the signalling is preserved!


Cheers

[stephanV]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
3ivx on the other hand, place their anamorphic signalling in both the Mpeg4 bit-stream and the AVI container (AFAIK)
I would find that unlikely... i think it is only the bitstream. there is nothing (right now) that would read out the VIDEOPROPERTYHEADER in avi files.

When it comes to the AVI splitter (whether it be Microsoft's or Gabest's) I'll be honest when I say, I don't know how much relevances it has with what wants to be done here!?!


and thats why i said:

(maybe i should shut up more :rolleyes: )

:p

ignore my posts about some uninpmlemented avi feature and continue helping the guy.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by stephanV
I would find that unlikely... i think it is only the bitstream. there is nothing (right now) that would read out the VIDEOPROPERTYHEADER in avi files.

ignore my posts about some uninpmlemented avi feature and continue helping the guy. No seriously, 3ivx do place their anamorphic signalling data in more than one place. Please ask one of the 3ivx guys.

The feature caught me out because I accidentally managed to fool it. When I started experimenting with mp4UI... It was all very weird. If I can, I'll try and locate my posts, together with 3ivX's responses.

I can't test it at the moment because I'm running my two boots without 3ivx software...


Cheers mate

[SeeMoreDigital]

Really off topic now...

Is there any particular reason why images can't be linked to/seen on this bit of the forum?

For examlpe: -

http://img85.exs.cx/img85/1803/XviD_AR_signalling.gif


Cheers

[ChickenMan]

Originally posted by Nick
As I don't do much capture I am indebted for your input.
Is it the case, then, that digital video cameras (for now) are all 4:3?
VHS is obviously 4:3 and most TV captures at the moment are 4:3. So captures of 16:9 footage should be rare for now, right?
Yes, thats pretty much how I see it.

Now, at the moment, what the "4:3, no borders, encode as 4:3" option does is use the script for a 1:1 AVI -> Anamorphic resize, with the 4:3 flag set. This cannot possibly (as far as I can see) be of any use to anyone!
Exactly.

If this first option were changed to the forced 4:3 option proposed above, then 4:3 no borders would work for capture footage.
The other two options would resize 16:9 footage (which at the moment is likely to be movie conversions and therefore 1:1 PAR) correctly for 4:3 or 16:9 output respectively, and as you say, the other options are not really needed yet.

So if it were
4:3 no borders = 4:3 forced as above, no borders possible unless they were in the original avi.

16:9 borders = resize/border of any 1:1 PAR footage (including 16:9 :) ) for 4:3 output

16:9 anamorphic = resize/border of any 1:1 PAR footage (including 16:9 :) ) for 16:9 output

can you see any complaints in the short to medium term? The three main options you proposed above are all implemented. Only 16:9 capture could forseeably cause a problem and if this is rare then IMO everyone wins with this proposal.
Yep, that exactly what I said (or ment) for the 3 options I suggested, just with different words :D Indead, any true 16x9 capturing in the future may need a tweek and I'm sure someone else will raise this issue when the time comes.

Basically, the first option should remain the way it has been in old versions of D2S, I see no re-write needed there but maybe a change of wording to what you have suggested. The current second option to remain as is, just a rewording of the option to make it 100% clear what its doing. Then the same for current option 3.

So,
A 4:3 DAR (or PAR) would AR convert correctly (to 4:3) with option 1.
A 4:3 or 16:9 PAR would AR convert correctly (to 4:3) with option 2.
A 16:9/2.3:1 etc PAR would AR convert correctly to anamorphic 16:9 with option 3.

Sounds good to me and would cover 99% of peoples avi conversions currently, I feel. Anything obscure, then AVIRes can still be used by manually changing the Avisynth script.

[manolito]

I totally agree with ChickenMan. Just one request: Please make sure that AutoFitCD and if possible also FACAR will work with the new code. Right now with 1.2.2 build 3 they both do not work correctly (at least with PAL captured footage). At 768 x 576 resolution the problems can be circumvented by selecting the "16:9, encode as 4:3" option, but files with a resolution of 720 x 576 and 704 x 576 do not work at all.

Cheers
manolito

[Nick]

In that case, CM, I'll put this to the author and see what happens. :)

I appreciate a change of wording would be nice to clarify the situation. The reason I suggested not doing this is that the AR options are the same regardless of source - ie, whether it's AVI, DVD or PVA, you still get offered 4:3 no borders, 16:9 borders for 4:3 or 16:9 Anamorphic. I am guessing therefore that the same code is used and therefore to make a special set of options for AVI input does mean more work.

I'm essentially thinking of what would be the quickest fix to get you capture guys back on board ASAP :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well ain't that just my luck...

I just happen to be one of those people who use a 16:9 miniDV camcorder (Sony DCR-PC109)!


Cheers

[ChickenMan]

Originally posted by Nick
I'm essentially thinking of what would be the quickest fix to get you capture guys back on board ASAP :)
Just change the currect 1st option code to what it was with earlier versions (already written, just needs to slip it back in :D ), that will immediately solve the problem. I suppose the wording can be just explained to newbies rather than change it.

[Nick]

@ SeeMoreDigital
Does this mean your captures are designed for 16:9 playback but captured at DVD resoultion?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Nick
@ SeeMoreDigital
Does this mean your captures are designed for 16:9 playback but captured at DVD resoultion? Yes!

They are all squashed up, in exactly the same way an 16:9 anamorphic DVD frame is. Plus, every single one of the 720x576 pixels are used. ie: no small area of black overscan is in the frame!

By contrast, there are a few camcorders that have a "16:9 option" but many of these simply introduce hard coded mattes into a 4:3 frame, to make it look 16:9, which obviously means, less active pixels.

As you know, because there's no DAR signalling in a DV.avi stream, most (if not all) capturing softwares assume the stream is 4:3 - which is a right pain!

Also, when connecting the camcorder to a TV, in order for the images to be viewed correctly (on an either a 4:3 or 16:9 TV), you have to go into the camcorders settings and allocated the required output screen size (manual DAR flag).

The camcorder is kept at work but I can borrow it if you like and upload some still captures (but I think you can already guess what they would look like). Or I can burn a segment of video onto a CD~R (a staggering three minutes worth) and post it to you.

You've got me thinking now! God knows what would happen if you tried to play this DV tape in a normal camcorder....

I'll have to give this a go!


Cheers

[zedstrange]

FWIW I have experienced the same issue as Chicken Man and others. I capture from PAL Satellite PayTV, @ 720*576 and then use AVI2DVD function.

Was very confusing to me, as I just did a clean reinstall of my HTPC and in the process updated all the applications, and as usual half of the things have changed, and the other half I forgot how to set up again - and knowing one of the two to fix is the hardest part :-)

all i can say is thank the good lord for giving us a search button.