Instant Copy better results than CCE w/DVD-RB?

[YaoMing11]

I recently tested 2 movies with around only 30% compression. I took a snapshot of the same scene with PowerDVD, and after viewing both the instant copy encode is sharper and detailed. The CCE seems smoother and less sharp. I use CCE with DVD-RB with cce 2.50. Is there something Im doing wrong because I always thought CCE is supposed to have the sharper results.

[hendrix]

interesting...how do they look when viewed on a tv

[YaoMing11]

I haven't viewed them on the tv yet, but I can definately tell a difference on my pc. One picture (CCE) is smoother, and the other (instant copy) is sharper which shows more details.

[YaoMing11]

Is the picture difference going to carry over to my TV, or is it just a problem when viewing with PowerDVD? It's a great picture with no artifacts or anything, but once I pust it next to a picture of a IC8 encode I can tell right off IC8 is much sharper.

[Matthew]

I don't presume to have much knowledge as far as these sorts of comparisons go, but you should post the settings used (no of passes etc).

Also, even though they are a flawed/imperfect indicator, screenshots of the original, instantcopy and CCE video streams (for the same frames) are also useful.

This way people should be more able to provide an explanation for what you ahve observed :)

[YaoMing11]

I used CCE 2.50 with DVD-RB. Settings were 5-pass, VBR_Bias-20, Quality_prec-16. Each screenshot is a 1mb uncompressed BMP file. I dont have anywhere to host them right now, but I can send them by e-mail if anybody is interested. The movies I tested were "The Postman", and "Billy Elliot". Im also getting ready to do an encode of "Firestarter" to test the quality on that one.

[jorel]

host image types: jpeg,jpg,png,gif and swf with 1024 kilobytes max size free: http://www.imageshack.com/

the most important setting used are the filters in the .avs script to encode with CCE(if any was used and how),that can give amazing details and compression encreasing quality....this details can change the whole story!
please post that details for us...thanks!

[leglover]

Originally posted by jorel
host image types: jpeg,jpg,png,gif and swf with 1024 kilobytes max size free: http://www.imageshack.com/

the most important setting used are the filters in the .avs script to encode with CCE(if any was used and how),that can give amazing details and compression encreasing quality....this details can change the whole story!
please post that details for us...thanks!

Amazing!! Let me get this straight: if InstantCopy "appears" to look as good as CCE, it's because he's not using the special .avs incantation...*ahem*...I mean filter scripts that actually provide "amazing details and compression encreasing (sic) quality" better than a few simple $49 one-click programs. Is this correct?

Would you care to share these magic scripts with the group so we can once and for all dump InstantCopy and Copy2 and get miraculous results with CCE for the rest of us?

Thanks a bunch!
LL

[hendrix]

and to add...anything over 3-passes wont give better video quality...the ability to do 9 passes is just a marketing ploy

[jorel]

hey :p no problems!
i can't find where i post about: "better than a few simple $49 one-click programs."....this is incorrect!
first: if you be patience,encode in 4 steps with CCE(2.50)...i know,thousands swear that more than 3 passes don't change anything but...did you encode only one time with 4 passes to compare with 3 passes using action movies?
now the "miracle script", the ".avs incantation"...i can call as "*ahem*.script":
Undot()
Asharp(1,3)# try (2,4),see asharp.html for details
Deen()# or Deen(("a3d",3,4,1,4)for more compression

no resizes,overscan,etc! is slow to encode but take me where i want with confort(as my old car).
but please, you only can see the differences IF you encode, don't have another way!
you got more than answers, you got a "how to"! ;) ...enjoy!
and remember: i only ask how CCE was used and still waiting the answer! thanks :o

[YaoMing11]

heres the sample pics of "the Postman"


Postman - Original DVD (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=original_postman1.png)

Postman - DVD-RB/CCE 5-pass no filters used (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=cce5pass_postman1.png )

Postman - Instant Copy 8 (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=instantcopy_postman1.png)
<br>

notice how the instant copy 8 sample and original are the sharper pictures. The CCE pic seems smoother as if the sharpness was turned down.

[jorel]

Originally posted by YaoMing11
heres the sample pics of "the Postman"


Postman - Original DVD (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=original_postman1.png)

Postman - DVD-RB/CCE 5-pass no filters used (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=cce5pass_postman1.png )

Postman - Instant Copy 8 (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=instantcopy_postman1.png)
<br>

notice how the instant copy 8 sample and original are the sharper pictures. The CCE pic seems smoother as if the sharpness was turned down.

thanks...you're right! as i told you the filters can encrease the quality of the results with CCE and you don't use any!

did you saw that the instantcopy_postman1.png loose part of the image in the top and show more in the bottom comparing with the original and from CCE ?
loose details on the top of the picture is easy but how instant copy found more details in the bottom from the original? :confused: how the borders stay with the same size but the picture inside change?

[YaoMing11]

Yeah the instant copy sample frame isn't in sync with the original and CCE, but the quality is the same. I already checked. So far every movie I tested I notice CCE always looks less focused than the original and instant copy 8. I wonder why nobody mentioned this before. How do I use those filters you mentioned? Im using CCE with DVD-RB.

[jorel]

Originally posted by YaoMing11
Yeah the instant copy sample frame isn't in sync with the original and CCE, but the quality is the same. I already checked. So far every movie I tested I notice CCE always looks less focused than the original and instant copy 8. I wonder why nobody mentioned this before. How do I use those filters you mentioned?

well,i do using D2S(dvd2svcd-Roba),choosing "main movie",one audio track without reencode(ac-3)without subs....if you want test it follow DDogg's recomendations: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76408
see the DDogg's #2 and #5 posts and choose only one movie for low Q in CCE(low Q means more quality)maybe Roba will choose Q=1 if your movie have round 2 hours!
test that way, will be hard to left that quality and D2S automatism!

[YaoMing11]

Can I also use these filters with DVD-RB?

[YaoMing11]

Undot()
Asharp(1,3)# try (2,4),see asharp.html for details
Deen()# or Deen(("a3d",3,4,1,4)for more compression


Is this the line I copy into the filter editor in DVD-RB? I would like to add a filter to sharpen the picture in DVD-RB using CCE.

[jorel]

yes, can be used in DVD-RB like posted in DVD ReBuilder: Settings thread...
"Options
Advanced (expert) Options:
Filter Editor
This is meant to support filters, but can also be used to activate other AviSynth commands. This is truly an EXPERT OPTION. If you are not intimately familiar with AviSynth leave it alone. It can make your encodes fail completely if incorrectly used. Note: Don't use blank lines."
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74356
take a look in the DVD ReBuilder: Installation, Setup, and Usage thread for more details: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=74308

download avisynth and filters for the script: http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/
install avisynth and put all filters in the avisynth 2.5 plugin's folder(the auto load will work)
script:
LoadPlugin("C:\...\avisynth 2.5\Plugins\MPEG2DEC3.DLL")
Undot()
Asharp(1,2)
Deen()
ConvertToYUY2()

i'm not expert in DVD-RB but jdobbs(DVD-RB developer-mod),wmansir (mod) and his great team give one of the best support in the world and will help you to remove doubts.

[YaoMing11]

Thanks you been a great help! :) How often should I use these filters? Everytime I use CCE or only when a movie is blurry or bad quality encoding to my eyes.

[YaoMing11]

Well I tried it and it didn't seem to work. I have a black screen with red lines at the bottom of the screen. I entered the script like this


LoadPlugin("C:\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll"}
Undot()
Asharp(1,2)
Deen()
ConvertToYUY2()

[jorel]

like i told you,i'm not expert in DVD-RB. i saw errors in the script:
you need to change the } for ) in the end of the "loadplugin" line.
the right is:
LoadPlugin("C:\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll")
but if you install avisynth in the default location,then change the address to:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll")
if "program files" is the right path......my windows is in portuguese and my default location is C:\arquivos de programas\....etc!
you have to put all filters and the MPEG2DEC3DG in the avisynth plugins folder, then you can remove the "loadplugin" line from the script. read with atention please:
"Path to MPEG2DEC3DG
If you installed the MEPG2DEC3dg.dll file into your AviSynth Plugins directory, you should not have to set this. If you do not want to auto-load the plugin, or are receiving script errors, you can set the path to the plugin here and Check the box Add to AVS file. It will then be explicitly defined in all .avs files."
more details here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=74356

[YaoMing11]

Thank you for helping me out. Im now able to encode with filters! :)

[RB]

On the whole subject of Transcoders vs. Encoders again, I'd like to point at Enots_' reply in http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81517 . I couldn't have said it better myself.

[rej]

Originally posted by YaoMing11
heres the sample pics of "the Postman"


Postman - Original DVD (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=original_postman1.png)

Postman - DVD-RB/CCE 5-pass no filters used (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=cce5pass_postman1.png )

Postman - Instant Copy 8 (http://img11.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img11&image=instantcopy_postman1.png)
<br>

notice how the instant copy 8 sample and original are the sharper pictures. The CCE pic seems smoother as if the sharpness was turned down.
Hi all.
I am quite sure that the sharpness problem your picture shows are not due to the CCE encoder. I have also experienced that the sharpness was bad with CCE (DVDREasy), but this was due to incorrect interlacing mode. On the contrary, to me it looks like CCE actually makes some kind of sharpening of the picture, look at this example
Original (http://rene.eskejensen.dk/download/01_18_01.bmp)
CCE (http://rene.eskejensen.dk/download/01_18_04_k.bmp)
Especially look at the painted stuff on the furniture to the left, you will easily recognize that it has been enhanced. Also look at the shrine on top of this furniture, the structures on it is a bit more evident on the copy.

BR,
René

PS: By the way, the DVD2DVD-R professional 2.0 frontend was used with default settings.