Another Successful Dual Layer Backup

[thensa]

Backed up Alien from DVD9 to Verbatim 2.4x Dual Layer Disc with a Pioneer DVR-108.

Worked in all PC DVD Readers I tried.

Tried and worked in the following standalone players: -

Scan Ellion
Samsung DVD HD935

Tried and didnt work on following DVD Recorder :-

Philips (cant remember model number)

I dont know what book type I used but it did burn it at 4x speed. I'm going to update this post when I have got some more discs and done some more testing but my 1st attempt looks very promising. I did test jumping to the end of the film to test the layer change and it wored fine but I didnt try to watch it all the way through where the actual layer change would take place.

My HD932 did lockup when I fast forwarded across the layer change.

I'll post more result when some more discs arrive.

Also you can now get DVD+DL discs for £5.47 in the UK.

[Joergen]

Oh yes, as seen here http://www.lynxdv.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_51

But I dont think the traxdata (ritek) are equal to the verbatim in compatibility, at least from what I've heard.

[thensa]

Okay I have now burnt another DL disc on a Verbatim at 2.4x. The title was School Of Rock PAL (Region 2). This played the same as the Alien backup on all of the same players.

This time I did a bit more testing though and fast forwarding and chapter skipping on all standalone players (bar one) had problems once they had gone past the 1st layer. I used Nero to burn as I know it has the Layer Magic thing.

One thought I had was that maybe the cause of the problem is that I might need to manually remove the existing layer break info from the IFO files before I subit the file to Nero for burning. Maybe I have ended up with 2 layer breaks in the IFO's after burning ?

I will re-rip my 2 backups and examine the IFO and see what, if anything, is going on.

Once I can nail the problems on the second layer I'll be very happy, prices for DL media are dropping already.

Lightning UK - have you done any testing with decrypter on DL media yet ? I know you added theoretical support some time ago.

[The Belgain]

You can now get DVD+R DL discs for £3.98 inc. VAT at www.blankdiscshop.co.uk

So yeah, they are starting to drop in price. I don't think I'll be buying any until they're half of that price though. A few more month to wait I guess. Watch out though, those are Ritek's, and they don't yet work on the NEC drives...

[thensa]

The Belgian - Yeah i just ordered 4 of those discs from the very same place :)

I have been looking at this layer break problem a bit more and it would now seem that to do a full dvd9 backup to DVD+R DL all you need to do is rip straight to an ISO using decrypter and then just burn the ISO using nero, that way nero doesnt attempt to put its own layer break info in but will start writing to the opposite side of the disc at the existing layer break already in the IFO's. Ill test this theory when my new discs arrive and I'll report back then.

People are now also reporting that burning DL's with DVDDecrypter using iso read then iso write modes works fins aswell.

[int 21h]

Originally posted by thensa
...
People are now also reporting that burning DL's with DVDDecrypter using iso read then iso write modes works fins aswell...

Makes sense, as it was a version or two ago that this was reported as supported...

[Séamus]

That's very good to hear about DVDDecrypter, which makes DL backups a click and burn thing. Can it be any easier ?

About the layer break in the IFO, I don't think Nero changes this, although thinking never was one of my talents.
So keep us updated if you get more results with DL burning.

[thensa]

Séamus,

Apparently, if you use Nero express to create a +R DL by doing a DVD Video Project and dragging the VOBS and IFOS's onto the VIDEO_TS folder it will calculate and add a new layer break to the IFO's but leave the old one there. This is because the layer magic stuff I think was only intended for peoples own home material where a layer break would not already exist.

Obviously in that situation you would nee Nero to do that for you, however, in our situation where we are backing up movies that already have layer breaks in them we want the layer break to stay in the same place and for nero not to add any more but just adhere to the existing one.

By giving nero an ISO ripped straight from the original using DVD Decrypter nero will not attempt to add a layer break of its own but will adhere to the one already set in the IFO's inside the ISO.

There is a really good thread about this topic here :-

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225001

My new discs should be here soon, I'll post more results then.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

My new method of layer break copying (from the original) is much better. Taking it from the IFO files is not reliable.

There will be a new version out very soon to take care of all this :)

[Séamus]

OK looks they got their minds set on RecordNow 7.2

I'm just looking for the best way to get my backup, but first strip out some stuff. I'm assuming the layer break needs to be in another position then.

[thensa]

LightningUK

Are you saying that a coming soon version of your lovely little tool (im talking "software" tool) will write a DL iso, which was ripped with decrypter, back to a dl disc with a layer break at exactly the same point as the original ?

I would definitely use this above Recordnow as I have never used that before.

Can you explain how your method is different from the other DL capable writing software out there ?

Looking forward to a new release.

Thanks for addressing the problem.

[int 21h]

More, albeit brief info here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80981

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Where possible, yes it will copy the exact location of the layer break from the media defined position (not the IFO).

I say 'where possible' because some discs use PTP (Parallel track path) and if Layer 0 is smaller than Layer 1, it's not possible to copy it 100% because DVD+R9 uses OTP and Layer 0 must always be bigger than / the same size as Layer 1.

[thensa]

Does DVDDecrypter detect whether a disc is PTP or OTP currently ? If so then at least we can decide what strategy to take before backing up a title.

<EDIT> I just had a look myself and yes it already does tell you which whether a disc is PTP ot OTP. </EDIT>

So is putting a layer break in the IFO always a complete red herring or can it help in some cases ?

Did you get chance to have a look here :-

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225001

They are talking about Superbit DVD's not behaving the same as standard DVD's regarding layer breaks. It may be something you want to check out just in case there's something else to take into consideration for your next release.

Anyway thanks for keeping us informed and I'll look forward to that next release.

Cheers.

PS: My four new dual layer discs just arrived aswell so if you would like me to do any testing, feel free to send me an exe :) £3.39 + VAT each from www.blankdiscshop.co.uk

[int 21h]

Originally posted by LIGHTNING UK!
Where possible, yes it will copy the exact location of the layer break from the media defined position (not the IFO).

I say 'where possible' because some discs use PTP (Parallel track path) and if Layer 0 is smaller than Layer 1, it's not possible to copy it 100% because DVD+R9 uses OTP and Layer 0 must always be bigger than / the same size as Layer 1.

So... confirm or deny this :)

Run DVD Decrypter ISO->Read. Then ISO->Write to Dual Layer disc. Does DVD Decrypter ignore all of the old IFO layer breaks, or remove them all and generate a correct media defined break.. or...?

[LIGHTNING UK!]

It doesnt touch the IFO files, it doesnt need to.

The layer break is taken directly from the original media and mirrored on the new DVD+R DL disc.

[thensa]

and is this how the current version works or it it how the new version will work ?

[alexnoe]

and is this how the current version works or it it how the new version will work ?Well, the message is written in present tense..

[int 21h]

I've ordered around $20,000 USD (total) in products from NewEgg and never had a problem.

(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-129-156&depa=0)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Originally posted by alexnoe
Well, the message is written in present tense..

Ah yes but you have to remember my current version is your future version. :)

This feature is as of 3.5.0.0 - which should hopefully be out later on today.

[alexnoe]

Good! Then the layer break can be set using DVD Maestro :-)

Also, my LiteOn 165 DVD-ROM can only read DVD+R DL if the disc is recorded entirely, i.e. up to the last sector. I'd like a setting in DVD Decrypter like 'pad disc', so that I don't need to pad the image :p This should be no problem at least for plain Data DVD+R DL discs.

[wilson2k]

quote:
Originally posted by alexnoe

Good! Then the layer break can be set using DVD Maestro :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Can you use DVD Maestro to set the layer break point without causing any problem playing the compiled and burned DVD+R DL on a Standalone DVD Player?

I tried many times to compile using DVD Maestro with layer break point set according to the oringinal IFO, and burn my DVD+R DL using Nero comes along with my DVR 108. But my DVD+R DLs freeze on the SP each time!!!

Please help me out:(

[Video Dude]

Just wondering ...

What happens when a DL disc is burnt to capacity without a layer break?