DVDShrink coupled with CCE

[ducati9x]

I thought I would share some quality research with you guys (and gals).

After ripping with old DeCSS (takes advantage of a sustained 8x read off of my DVD drive) takes approx 6 min, I transcode a NON-COMPRESSED dvd movie with DVDSHRINK 3.2. I remove all extras and audio/sub tracks I do not need leaving only the main movie (i like including the THX opening screen though :) This gives an output file often significantly less than the 6.5 - 8.2 gig dvds I already own.

If SHRINK identifies the movie as only needing 0-8% compression - I let shrink do all the work.

But if the movie requires 9%+ compression, I remove everything and transcode the uncompressed movie. Then I subject the movie to processing by CCE 6.22 via DVD-Rebuild.

I have found the results to be very pleasing - much quicker than re-authoring with Maestro or Scenarist. Takes about 1 hr with Shrink and 3-6 hrs with CCE.

However, it appears as though even if DVDSHRINK does not compress the movie, it outputs the movie file with a visual lattice that is only really visible if I zoom in on the movie at 8x or more.

Any suggestions for a transcoder that does not do this?

[ddlooping]

Hi ducati9x. :)

This is really surprising, as DVD Shrink has been shown to leave the video stream untouched (bit-to-bit comparisons) when "No Compression" was used. :confused:

Just out of curiosity, have you compared v3.2 output at 60-90% ratios with DVD-RB/CCE?

[dragongodz]

also how are you viewing your result ? i mean are you using something like windvd or powerdvd or MPC on your pc or is this burnt ?

many times it has been shown that mpeg2 viewing on a pc can be a funny thing and depending on what was used at what time of day and what else was running etc etc etc results can change. :D

[ducati9x]

:)ddlooping & dragongodz :),

I've noticed this "visual lattice" though very faint, when i play on dvd players that have zooming capability, ala my XBOX, Fisher, Sony, and Sharper Image progressive scan players. It really is only noticeable when zooming at 8x or more - though appears less on the progressive scan player (colors and image quality is also much better on the prog scan :)).

Anyways, I've found that the effect does not appear when using Rebuild/CCE. It seems the output might take on a slightly grainier effect - but I would say a much higher quality.

I can't really compare Shrink 3.2 and CCE cuz CCE does not allow the ability to completely strip extras and menus. So for a 60-90 rip, Shrink is my choice. But the stripping ability i search for in CCE, is done first in Shrink, then processed in CCE. But once again this "grid" appears in my burnt movies.

Its really no big deal, b/c i am very satisfied with my backups :D but i was just wondering if there was a prog that doesnt have to transcode a movie if there is no compression.:cool:

[ddlooping]

I do understand your point, ducati9x, but let me say again, DVD Shrink does not transcode when "No Compression" is applied.

Other transcoders you could try:
- DVD2One.
- Instant Copy 8.
- CloneDVD.
- Copy DVD 2.
- ...

You could also try using someting like TitlesetBlanker or DVDRemake to remove unwanted titles before using DVD Rebuilder/CCE.

[DVD Maniac]

ducati9x

Sounds like a good approach, although I would like to challenge the thinking about your cut-off point (9%). I have recently switched to Shrink 3.2 as I have had mixed results with Rebuilder (problems with audio drop out) and not had a single problem. My eyes cannot tell any difference between CCE vs Shrink 3.2 even high on high compression results (50-60%).

Don't get me wrong, Rebuilder is a fantastic tool but since we are comparing one free tool with another my vote is for using Shrink (Quality = CCE up to 50% compression, faster, more features etc). If Rebuilder can ditch those bugs and add menu compression and title blanking then it will be a much closer call.

Just my humble opinion ;)

[Mephiston]

i can also vouch for DVDShrink 3.2. but it's only good on movies i find, for TV series you still need CCE.

I find with 3.2 80% is now acceptable with movies, looks fine on my TV. just as good as CCE in most cases. I would agree with your above 90% for the older DVDShrink though.

TV Disks though, usually need to drop to 60% Compression, and the results look H O R R I B L E. Just tried CSI Season 1, it's pretty much unwatchable on Shrink 3.2. macroblocks and jerkyness everywhere. (Granted this is a tough encode on CCE as well, but comes out pretty darn good). I couldn't imagine an Action Packed TV Disk on Shrink. (Not yet at least)

One last thing, DVD-Rebuilder is still inferior to the big 3 (At least by my own evaluations). Give it a try, you will get even higher quality backups.

[geezer]

And how is Rebuilder "inferior" to the Big 3 ?

[Mephiston]

Output quality is Night & Day (At least on all the backups i have seen).

Big3 Produces excellent quality, Rebuilder produces Shrink Quality at best. At least the ones i tried. Giving it another shot now though, mabye things have improved.

[DVD Maniac]

i can also vouch for DVDShrink 3.2. but it's only good on movies i find, for TV series you still need CCE.

Disagree with this totally. I have run several TV series backups with Shrink 3.2 at up to 55% compression and the results are the same as Rebuilder + CCE to my eyes. Shrink 3.1 versions definitely struggled with these levels of compression I will agree - but not the new version with AEC.

Are you sure you have AEC swtitched on and set to Sharp?

[TheSeeker]

Mephiston

I find this really hard to believe. The big 3 and rebuilder both use CCE to encode, just have different front ends. So they are essentially going to the same destination but they just take a different road to get there.

EDIT: The only thing Big 3 has over rebuilder is support for seamless branching and angles, and the ability to mess with the menus and delete buttons and all that stuff.. But that funtionality really isnt needed with ifoedit and dvdremake in the mix.

[Mephiston]

Mabye it's the settings i'm using then, i backed up a CSI Disk last night with rebuilder. Macroblocks here and there. Not as bad as Shrink though but you can see them especially in faces and lighter shades.

The other disks i have done with the Big3 have no macroblocks at all. I guess it's because you can really customize things when you use the individual tools, and squeeze every last bit for the main movie.

I'm gonna try dumping the next disk to hard drive, blanking out unwanted features and shrinking the menu before sending it to rebuilder.

[TheSeeker]

I take it you werent doing any preprocessing before Rebuilder? Yea I would recommend as you say running it through shrink and dumping any audio and menus and extras that you dont want. Because as you found out rebuilder cant do that stuff. By the way what settings are you using?

[ddlooping]

Originally posted by ducati9x
If SHRINK identifies the movie as only needing 0-8% compression - I let shrink do all the work.

But if the movie requires 9%+ compression, I remove everything and transcode the uncompressed movie. Then I subject the movie to processing by CCE 6.22 via DVD-Rebuild.
LOTR-ROTK, 60.9%, Deep Analysis, AEC/"Smooth". ;)
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/comparative_tests_smooth.html

[luphy]

ddlooping,

Would you mind summarizing your personal conclusions on the testing from the above link?

I don't have the bandwidth to check them all out. Thanks.

[ddlooping]

Well, on this particular movie, DVD Shrink v3.2 - Deep Analysis and AEC/"Smooth" - surprised me by yelding the best results.

I was expecting it to better IC8 ("Maximum Smoothness" would have generated a very similar output to IC8's), but not DVD2DVD-R/CCE 2-pass.
The DVD Shrink backup was noticeably closer to the original, showing less compression artefacts and noise, without losing in sharpness to either DVD2DVD-R/CCE or IC8 backups.

The degree of "betterness" (:D) does vary from one scene to another though, and might not show as much depending on the viewing equipment used.

I'm trying to have more comparison tests being made, by DVD Rebuilder/CCE aficionados. :)

[ddlooping]

A big apology to all who have downloaded the "Smooth" comparison tests.
The links were actually pointing to the v3.2 beta 3 test files. :o

This error has now been rectified. :)
A "Maximum Sharpness" comparison page has also been added. ;)

http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/comparative_tests_smooth.html
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/comparative_tests_maxsharp.html

[b0b0b0b]

ddlooping, nice web pages. thanks for the work.

[gorangel]

I think i have better results With RB-CCE, i´m agree with ducati9x and i use shrink only to get rid of unwanted extras.
I Compare decrypter (3.2.3) - shrink (3.2) or ifo edit (0.96) or clonedvd 2.4.3.1 and RB-CCE (0.56 -2.67.00.10) vs decrypter and shrink 3.2 Deep Analysis in this movies
Sin Eater
Saving private ryan
Harry Potter The chamber of secrets
LOTR two towers

I´m apologize for my english is not my mother language:)

[ddlooping]

Originally posted by b0b0b0b
ddlooping, nice web pages. thanks for the work.
You're welcome, b0b0b0b, and thanks for the positive feedback. :)

Thanks for sharing your findings, gorangel. :)
Your english is fine. ;)