5.1 Encoding Formats, What's the populare way? [or tips]

[DoC hEx]

I'm about to enter the wounderful world of 5.1 Surround. I've beening reading around this forum and have been trying to get an idea of which way seems to be the most populare.

I'm a big fan for OGG but it seem to always create large 5.1 output files. So from reading around this might not be the best way to go. I have little experence with AAC and AC3 which seem to be the one people are using.

What way do you find works best???

[Asmodeus]

I use Vorbis 5.1 encoded through foobar with Valex's v0.5b winamp plugin (while foobar plugin does not work propertly for me: wrong channell mapping), and i get bitrates form 140 to 200 kbps, with satisfactory quality for my ears :D I don't like AAC quality, even at 160 (of course for 5.1) but last test I've made year ago with Nero and 3vix encoders. Maybe now it is better, but I'll stay with Vorbis.
MKV for container, for decode CoreVorbis.

[tiki4]

I'd recommend Nero HE-AAC 'streaming' profile. Sounds sufficient to my ears even with music DVD soundtracks.

tiki4

[neil wilkes]

It depends on what you are trying to do, and what your source material was.
From a standard WAV, at 16-24 bit, I'd use either MLP for DVD-A, or else DTS-WAV for a surround CD.
DVD-V would be AC3 for best compatibility.

As for the others, why bother?

[DoC hEx]

Basically I have a PC in my living room connected to the TV which will soon have 5.1 surround-sound. I don't want to be always putting DVD's into my DVD player as it's a pain finding the new one I want to watch, as I have tons. I just want to encode them onto my main PC's HD and then use my PC to play them on my TV with the sound going to my 5.1 HiFi. Think Video On Demand but private, just for me :D

The problem is space, some DVDs if just left in an ISO format would be too large for easy storage as lots of them (6GB+) would eat up my 200GB HD. So I'm looking at making them 1-1½GB rips (this way I can fit my collection onto my PC). I’m going to rip them for good quality video for TV, it's the sound part that I don't have enough experience to know what I'm doing, as I've only really used Ogg and MP3 Joint Stereo.

Previously for Stereo sound 6-8% of the total file sized worked well enough (700MB files). So far my Ogg tests have come out at about the 200MB mark, which is too high with my current expectations of a max 15% 5.1 Audio file sizes (1024MB Total with a Max Audio file of 150MB [228Kbit/s@90 Minutes], but never less then 160Kbit/s). I don’t know if I need to adjust my expectations or just for my codec settings?

I don't know what's needed from an Audio Encoder for good quality 5.1 sound at lower bitrates, ideally between 160[lowest] 196[ideal] 228[Max] @ 90 Minutes. But if I need to use more bit so be it as there’s no point having crap 5.1 when I could have killer 2.1 at the same rate.

What do you guys think???

[neil wilkes]

I agree with you fully.
However.
If you use high quality Dolby Digital - AC3 - you use a 448kbps bitrate. The big advantage here is that you can hook up the SP-DIF output from your PC straight to your AV amp, and off you go.
If you also have a DTS encoder, you have this option too.
With DTS there are 3 available formats - DTS-WAV, which pretends to be "standard" CD-WAv, but actually unpacks into 5.1 or 5.0 or whatever, or else DTS or CTS extensions.
DTS uses the same bitrate, CTS uses half. But not all decoders are happy with CTS extensions.

Well done Dolby Digital always has the advantage, as it is now a universal format which is instantly decodable by every AV amp on the market.

[hans-jürgen]

Originally posted by DoC hEx
I don't know what's needed from an Audio Encoder for good quality 5.1 sound at lower bitrates, ideally between 160[lowest] 196[ideal] 228[Max] @ 90 Minutes. But if I need to use more bit so be it as there’s no point having crap 5.1 when I could have killer 2.1 at the same rate. In my opinion you can achieve a very good audio quality at 230 kbps/6ch with AAC LC (Low Complexity Profile) available in several AAC codecs like FAAC, Nero and compaact!. If that sounds better or worse than Ogg Vorbis at the same bitrate is up to you, so the best idea always is to do some own comparisons. If you want to go lower than 200 kbps/6ch and still have a "good" quality (which is a subjective question in the end), you should switch to HE-AAC which is only available from an installed Nero application. See e.g. this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74708) for some useful FAAC settings from 200-230 kbps/6ch.

By the way, you should not forget WMA9 which also offers competitive multichannel encoding in the Pro version.

[neil wilkes]

WMA Pro is not too shabby.
Sort of like Microsofts take on Dolby Digital.

To get best quality though, you really want either Dolby Digital at 448, or DTS.

All these other ones are not as good.
IMHO.

[bond]

Originally posted by hans-jürgen
HE-AAC which is only available from an installed Nero applicationits also available with real's codec, but i dunno if it handles multichannel already

[hans-jürgen]

Originally posted by neil wilkes
To get best quality though, you really want either Dolby Digital at 448, or DTS.
All these other ones are not as good.
IMHO. The original poster has clearly stated what he is looking for, and it's not keeping the original AC-3 or DTS track. :rolleyes:

@Bond: As far as I know, the HE AAC codec from Coding Technologies in Helix is not freely available for a normal user (only for Helix developers). If it is, please describe the way and method how to download and install it.

[bond]

Originally posted by hans-jürgen
If it is, please describe the way and method how to download and install it.its freely available, you can get it here (https://helix-producer.helixcommunity.org/downloads.htm)
i think its simply a replacement for the default encoder dll, still i never tried it but it seems to work, as some people already reported

[hans-jürgen]

Originally posted by bond
its freely available, you can get it here (https://helix-producer.helixcommunity.org/downloads.htm)
i think its simply a replacement for the default encoder dll, still i never tried it but it seems to work, as some people already reported To me that page isn't very clear about a "free availability" and for whom (end user or developer) and for what version of Helix Producer (command line application or only SDK).

Before downloading applications on this page, you must agree to the Binary End User License Agreement.

I would like to, but I have to create an account for that, it seems, also for reading the Readme files... :rolleyes:

AAC Add-on Package (See RCSL before using) What is "RCSL"? I guess some RealNetworks License, but how does it differ from the end user license above, or is it the same?

The AAC add-on package, contains just what is needed to upgrade the Helix DNA Producer SDK with AAC or aacPlus encoding support. Please refer to the Helix DNA Producer SDK license for information about AAC and aacPlus licensing terms. Here they talk about a third license (if these all differ from each other, that is). And the command line application of Helix Producer is not mentioned, only the Software Development Kit, so for me this does not sound like a downloadable binary that an end user could use right away.