Toshiba 210e and SVCDs

[Fats Minnesota]

I have just ripped The matrix from DVD using DVD2SVCD and burned the image using FireBurner. however i am having sync problems on my Toshiba SD 210e standalone player, the video leads the audio by about 1/4-1/2 second, plays ok on my PC using WinDVD and vcds play fine on the Tosh. is there anything i can tweak inDVD2SVCD to make it work properly with SVCDs

any ideas please:confused:

[JulCat]

Have you tried to put 2 or 3 seconds in the movie offset in the bbMPEG tab (>0 is recommended. It can solve desync on dvd players)

[Fats Minnesota]

Yeah i was running it on more or less default settings, 2 seconds was already selected. Do i need to set this higher?
Thanks for the reply by the way.
Any more ideas?:)

[Fats Minnesota]

tried again with the bbmpeg movie offset value value set to 5sec (max i think) but still sync problems.
Any ideas? Will try running at 0 seconds to see if there is any difference.

[rocket_robot]

I am also getting this same problem, have tried just about everything. I think the delay is 233 milliseconds. To get round this I offset the video by 413 ms, audio by 180 ms in bbmpeg. This works, but of course if the Disk is played on another player the sound is out.

[Fats Minnesota]

how do you change these values in bbmpeg?
Do you have the same problem with the video leading the audio as i do.
Do you have the same player Toshiba SD210E.
Thanks for the help:cool:

[rocket_robot]

Yes, I have the same player. Basically if you set DVD2SVCD to not create CD image files, then when everything is finished you will end up with 2 or 3 mpeg files. Use the mpeg tools option in Tmpgenc to do a simple demultiplex on each of the files (half an hour max) Then use BBmpeg to multiplex them back together again. I think there is BBmpeg guide on this site. Anyway in the program tab, under SVCD at the bottom you should see 4 boxes pack, video, audio and audio 2. Set these to 0,413,180 and 180 respectively. You will find that the mpeg is out of sync on your PC but OK on the Toshiba. The 413 is only my best guess. Let me know if you tweek it up or down.

Finally use nero or Vcdimager to burn to CD.

Note. I am still kinda new to this as well, so there may be a way of setting up DVD2SVCD to have those offsets already in it. If anyone knows how this can be done please let me know.

Rocket.

By the way my friend has just bought a toshiba 210e, I'll see if his is out of sync as well, it could just be our firmware version.

****Update ***** Yes his player has exactly the same delay between sound and video

[Fats Minnesota]

Cheers m8 i'll let you know how i get on:)

[rocket_robot]

I will probably get flamed for this.

(Editing an executable is not usually a wise idea, and it is only so I don't have demux and remux every time)

But, one easy way I have found to solve my problem is to 'hack' the dvd2svcd executable. And change the BBpmpeg ini file settings to use a video delay of 413 instead of the default 180.

Basically you download this program FXEDIT32

http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone16/cat289/2993.htm

use it to open up DVD2SVCD.exe Then search, and find string 'videoDelay=180'

then edit/ edithex

Next change the value from 180 to 413. Then save the file. It is probably wise to save under a new name.

Then you can run the new DVD2SCVD.exe as normal and the final files it produces will have the correct offset for the toshiba player every time.

Rocket.

Also, just out of interest does anyone one know why I only get 60% CPU usage when running CCE on a twin pIII 1gig processor machine? My speed is only .671.

[dvd2svcd]

Yipiiie, somebody has hacked my program :) Finally.


Everybody can hack dvd2svcd as much as they want, I don't care. BUT if you begin to spread a hacked version I will have your head on a platter.

[Mozart]

Ehh... Did I understood right? You don't care if somebody hacks your program? VERY good:cool:

I will start to do it now - course, only for self use.;)

btw: you are a realy good guy

[markrb]

Now you tell me. If I knew 15 years ago I would have learned how to program :D .

Rocket as for your speed issue. It could be a few things. Amount of memory, cce is a memory hog, memory bandwidth (even though you have dual CPU's you still only have one memory pipe), bus speed (goes back to memory bandwidth) and how well does CCE actually use 2 CPU's (you could have 50, but if the program doesn't spred the wealth it doesn't make a bit of difference). Much Less likely is disk usage or video card speed.

Mark

[dvd2svcd]

@Mozart: Yeah, I am a real cool guy :cool:

Anyway, what does: "O mundo não é ruim. É somente mal frequentado." mean?

[Mozart]

"O mundo não é ruim. É somente mal frequentado." Well...there isn't a good translation for this sentence. It means something like "The world is not bad. It is only badly visited."
Did you got it?;)

[Fats Minnesota]

Ok Rocket, thanks for the help:) your solution seems to fix the problem well enough to watch an SVCD, Cheers. BTW i find that a setting of about 470 ms seems to work better on my machine.
Will maybe try your other solution, if i have the balls.
much respect to the author, will keep it to myself, of course:)

[DDogg]

Rocket, put a combination lock on that program that requires somebody to translate something in hex or something to show they have a clue before allowing use. Else, we are going to have a hundred noobs changing values thinking it is cool, as they don't understand the problem is one caused by a fouled up player.

Then, after I pull all my hair out answering hairball questions, I will track you down, salt your land for a thousand years and destroy your seed forever, er, or is that your seeds? :)

[Ruben]

i made several svcds with dvd2svcd
but i never noticed an audio/video delay with my sd210e

- did you downsample your audio to 44.1kHz ?
- do you use chapters (try without)

no more to say
ruben

[rocket_robot]

Markrb: Thanks. I have 650Mb RAM a VIA 6VXDC7 motherboard 2 PIII 1gig CPUs, GeForce2 MX 32Mb. Not sure on bus speed, I have a feeling it's 66 because that is what the Geforce2 reccommends. I will try upping it. Running XP 2600. CCE uses both CPUs at 60% evenly. I have tried upping the priority for that process, still nothing. If I disable 1 CPU it runs at 100% CPU. I did a 3D benchmark2001 and got 1994, if that helps. I don't think its the disks either, but may try upgrading my 4 in 1 VIA drivers again. I can't really play around too much until my Current DVD2SVCD run finishes.

Fats: I think you are right 413 may be a bit low, I'll try somewher in the middle 440 next time.

DDogg: That Hex editor isn't mine, I just chose one at random after realising notepad wouldn't do the job :)

Finally DVD2SCVD: What can I say, great program, keep up the good work.

Rocket.

[rocket_robot]

Markrb:

It looks like it is not CCE that is causing the problem it is the feed to it. AVIsynth with mpeg2dec is not running fast enough. I have had a play with the avs file (used gordian knot) and changing from
BiCubicResize(480,576,0.00,0.75)
to
BiCubicResize(480,576) it goes from .67 to .95

But both Cpu's are still only running at 63%. Even if I run at 6.0 Mbps the CPUs still only go up to 68%

Anyone know how to get AVIsynth working faster ?

Ruben: Could you let us know your firmware versions for you 210e please? Just turn the player on without a disk in and press 6,0,6 then zoom

Mine are :
Boot rom V1.400
Main rom V1.600 - R2

and have you had yours made region free?

Cheers,

Rocket.

[Cayne]

@rocket_robot: CCE does not support Multiprocessor Systems. So the maximum you could get for CCE should be 50%. The other 13% are used for AVISynth and some other threads (explorer.exe and stuff like this).

[rocket_robot]

Cayne: I believe that it does. If I use CCE to encode a regular avi file it can run at nearly 100% cpu on both. I have had a look in Task manager under performance and the only process running is cctsp.exe at 98% (both cpus). It is only when I use Avisynth the performance drops.

[Kryzzle]

Guys,

there's a hell of a discussion thread on http://www.dvdboard.de - unfortunately, it's completely german.

Let me summarize what we have learnt from several german users and the german Toshiba support:

a) FW combinations of up to 1.4/1.6 are able to flawlessly play SVCDs; rumours have been told that the latest FW of 1.4/2.1 plays SVCDs without A/V delays, but this needs to be tested in detail.
b) The player is sensitive to the quality of the CD Writer - best results have been found using Teac CD-W512EB at max. 8x speed on CD-R!
If you burn at higher speeds, the playback will be stuttering... (due to bad drive error correction)
c) For up-/downgrading the FW of the 210E, it has to be shipped to Toshiba service - FW update is not possible via CD, but only by using some special cables (JTAG suspected).
d) Decoder board is available in two different hardware versions, which can be shown by the letter after the TB: text.

So, if you can get some player with FW below or equal 1.4/1.6, you're lucky (like I am ;-)) - otherwise: don't waste any time, return to dealer.

[rocket_robot]

Thanks Kryzzle, Any change you can let us know exactly how you burn your SVCDs. BBMPEG setting etc... Do you use nero , do you downsample the 48-~>44.1 sound. And the make of the disks you use.

I have tried everything, but if your player is the same as mine and yours works, then I must be doing something wrong. Just can't figure out what it is.

Cheers,

Rocket.

[Kryzzle]

First, give me your firmware revisions.
Turn on player, press Zoom, 6, 0, 6, Zoom on remote control.
The device will display the boot and main fw revision numbers.
Please post them so I can tell you whether or not it's worth to further evaluate your problem...

[Fats Minnesota]

Ok Kryzzle, my versions are 1.4/1.9 and the text after tb: is x.
Any ideas

[Kryzzle]

Sorry pal, but there's no solution to this other than muxing the stream with an extra time offset - this is a problem of your specific fw revision only.
Since the SD210E in general is a really good device (good sound, very good picture), you should try to convince your dealer to provide you with a downgrade to 1.3/1.4 or upgrade to 1.4/2.1, which is told to be working fine.

[rocket_robot]

1.4 / 1.6 TB:X. Any ideas. Also do you include subtitles etc...

[Kryzzle]

@rocket_robot:
1.4/1.6 is reported to be working. Try using a TEAC CD writer and do not exceed 8x burning speed. Should work fine with most CD medias.

[rocket_robot]

Thanks again, I don't suppose you know what is so special about a TEAC cd writer. As I would prefer to shop around and get one with the same feature. I have never had any trouble in the past with my writer. Also what make TEAC writer should I get any, any one in particular?

[Ruben]

i have 1.3 / 1.4 firmware version at my sd 210
no problems with audio/video delay
but no svcd subtitels possible (but permanent subs are ok)

Ruben

[rocket_robot]

Ruben, What cd writer do you have? TEAC?

Has anyone else had any problems because of the make of their cd writer? It just seems a bit odd. It probably is the source of the problem, but why?

I have a yamaha SCSI CDR4416SX.

Cheers to eveyone so far.

[Ruben]

i have a teac cdr55s with the latest firmware.
i burn with 4x speed.
No problems so far.
I use platinum 80Min and 90Min CDR

Ruben

[Kryzzle]

@rocket_robot:

Looks like the error correction of the SD210E's DVD drive is not one of the best...
I guess there are a lot of parameters that could have impact on the readability of a CD-R during the burning process of the disc - like laser pulse timing, rotation speed stability, laser pulse power etc.

Have you tried using a Teac drive yet?

[Nasdero]

Hi,

I got this SD210E also, I called yesterday Toshiba germany and they told me an Address in Hanover, I should send it to this company, they will update the firmware and then should be everything ok with the sound and the SVCDs. It's for free, cause I got still waranty.

Btw the new Versions are 1.4/2.2 .

Kind regards,
Nasdero

[gerti67]

Hi Nasdero,

thanx for updating all the old Toshiba related threads with your info about the new firmware that is supposed to solve the sync-issue. :) I and sure all the others that are impacted by this problem really appreciate this. :)

Thanx a lot,
Gerti

[Nasdero]

Hi folks,

so I'll get my Toshiba SD210E back tomorrow, but there is a prob, cause I've too go to the hospital for about 4 days, so I can make a report earlyest at saturday or sunday, but be sure, I'll inform you!

Kind regards, ;)
Nasdero

[gerti67]

Hi Nasdero,

first, good luck with the hospital thing. And a second one, I heard from the german dvdboard that this firmware does not fix the sync issues. :(

It is said from Toshiba support that there will be another version (2.3) at the end of march that should definitively fix this issue and that the 2.2 FW is only for compatibility issues with some DVDs.

That's the reason I did not send in my player yet - I think I will wait till the end of march then.

But if you're back on track it would be nice to hear from you again with a report on that - as they didn't say anything about using D2S on the dvdboard. So, perhaps still a little chance that it might work.

Greetings,
Gerti

[Nasdero]

Yo I'm still alive :)
So the palyer is also still alive, but I guess the Sync is better, but not ok, I'm writing an Email to Toshiba right now, I did spend some money for the shipping and 1.5 weeks without my SD210E and the problem is still there, I'll inform you what they will answer.

Greetings,
Nasdero

[Nasdero]

Sehr geehrter Herr *****,

Nach Rücksprache mit dem zuständigen Productmanager habe ich nun erfahren das, das Problem bereits nach Japan weitergeleitet wurde und man sich dort darum kümmert.

Vorraussichtlich Ende März wird eine neue Firmware (V2.3) für den SD210E erhältlich sein.

Wir bedauern die Umstände und Probleme die Sie mit diesem DVD-Player haben sehr und hoffen Sie haben noch etwas Geduld.

Um wieder Probleme und Verärgerungen zu vermeiden wird die neue Firmware wenn Sie denn erhältlich ist erst einmal genau auf die SVCD-tauglichkeit überprüft.

Bitte haben Sie noch etwas Geduld, ich schreibe Sie wieder an sobald ich mehr zu diesem Thema weiß.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

SB Konzept GmbH

Oliver Eigenbrodt

---------------------------------
That's means, that the guys in Japan are working on that problem, they wanna test the compatibility with the SVCDs if the new Firmware 2.3 is out and then they wanna inform me by mail. And that means also, that I'll inform you guys. :)

Greetings,
****** oh sorry, Nasdero ;)

[Sekatom]

I have found that some DVD players have problems with MPEG PS muxed with bbMPEG.
I noticed the same desyncs you write about on Philips DVD710.
I have worked on it and there are my conclusions:
1) It does not make sense to mux audio and video files with audio delay increased for specific player, 'cause there will be desync on another player (try with WinDVD - isn't it?)
2) The best you can do having player with some issues (maybe Toshiba that you write) is to demux bbMPEG_Muxed_FileXX using bbdmux or TMPGEnc MPEG Tools' demuxer and mux again using TMPGEnc muxer.
Since then audio and video will be synced.
VCDXImager needs some changes in XML script files, but on my players without these changes chapters work OK.

[gerti67]

Hi Sekatom,

thanks for the hint but I already tried to demux/mux with all possible programs/tools and the audio/video sync is still there and also as you suggested with TMPGEnc's MPEG Tools - so no go for the Toshhiba player at all.

From my experience, I mux with 250ms for video and 125ms for audio delay in bbMPEG (default 180ms each) and have not found a standalone/software player that played these SVCDs out of sync yet. (Tested with Grundig GDV-130, Philips 761, Denon DVD-1000, PowerDVD 4.0, WinDVD 3.x)

Anyway, thanks for your input. :)

Greetings,
Gerti

[Nasdero]

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

vielen Dank für Ihre Geduld. Nach einiger Zeit des Wartens haben wir nun bzgl. SVCD Antwort aus Japan erhalten.

Nach Ansicht der Techniker liegen die Probleme bei den unterschiedlichen Möglichkeiten der Erstellung von SVCD´s und daran das es keinen Standard
dafür gibt. Aus Tests hat sich ergeben das SVCD mit folgenden Programmen funktioniert.

Zuerst encoden mit TMPGENC V 2.52 und anschliessend mit VOB Instant Video brennen.

Erstellte SVCD´s funktionierten auf den Playern von TOSHIBA ohne Probleme, ohne Tonverzögerung und ohne Artefakte in sehr guter Qualität. VCD´s oder
SVCD´s sollten GRUNDSÄTZLICH nur mit 2-facher Brenngeschwindigkeit gebrannt werden, da es sonst zu Jitter-Problemen und somit Artefakten, etc. kommen
kann! Aufgrund der Vielzahl an Software zur Erstellung von SVCD´s sieht sich TOSHIBA ausser Stande weitergehenden Support diesbezgl. zu geben.

Gestestet wurde beim SD210E mit Firmware V2.2.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen
SB Konzept GmbH
Oliver Eigenbrodt

--------------

Hmmm thats means that there won't be a new Firmware, cause that's not a problem with the player, that's a problem with the encoders, they tested it with TMPGENC V 2.52 and they burned it with VOB.

Greetings,
Nasdero

[ChRoNiX]

Hi,

Has anyone tried to make a SVCD this way and get rid of the sych issues?

[gerti67]

Hi ChRoNiX,

I did it this way - encoded it with TMPGEnc and burned it with a trial of VOB and it was not in synch during playback - sometimes the SVCDs burned with VOB didn't play at all. I really don't know which settings they have chosen and if you really need the 1.4/2.2 firmware for that because I still have the 1.4/2.1.

But yesterday I think I found a solution with bbMPEG as I started to play around with it's parameters every which way because I believed it has something to do with the muxing step as I read on a German DVD board a guy had success in muxing the files with Roxio's VideoPack 5 to play correctly on the Toshiba.

And here is the solution:

If you want to play your SVCDs in perfect synch on your Toshiba then mux it with bbMPEG and use the "~DVD" template instead of the "SVCD" template but use all the SVCD settings with it. Burned it with VCDEasy and it played absolutely perfect from the beginnig to the end with chapters and fast forward and rewind.

Only issue is the resulting muxed MPEG files are slightly bigger (about 1.35%) so you have to set your CD image size to 790MB before so you can easily demux the muxed files and then mux them together again so they still fit on a 800MB CD-R.

Or you leave the SVCD standard just a further step and turn off "Add SVCD scan offsets" and "Align sequence headers" so the remuxed files become slighlty smaller than the original muxed ones.

But be aware this is off the standard although "shh" the author of "FitCD" states that there is no player known yet that uses "SVCD scan offsets" or needs "Aligned sequence headers" - but who knows. I have to test those SVCDs on some of my friends' players to see if there are problems with it - but I didn't had the time yet.

Greetings,
Gerti

[ChRoNiX]

Yes it worked! After a couple of hours of muddering with the settings it finnaly worked!

Used bbMpeg with the ~DVD template but changed the values back to the ones used for SVCD.

When I burned the muxed file with NERO i still had the synch issues.
I downloaded VCDEasy and burned it with it and voilla synch issues solved!

Thanks man,
ChRoNiX

[dvd2svcd]

It seems I better expand the bbMPEG options a bit in dvd2svcd.

[gerti67]

Hi dvd2svcd,

that would be really great and I would appreciate it a lot! :)

For the Toshiba issue it would help if one could set the ProgramStreamType=4 in the bbMPEG settings, all other parameters can stay the same and the resulting MPEGs and images play absolutely perfect perhaps this would help with some other sync issues or problems with other standalones as well.

I have compared the muxed MPEGs with MPEGanalizzatore and there is really no big difference between the SVCD and the ~DVD settings of bbMPEG muxed streams - I think it is only the way the both streams are muxed together. And all software DVD players like PowerDVD or WinDVD and Media Player played the MPEGs with the ~DVD stream type without any issues or glitches and I bet this is the same for other standalones but I really had no time to test this yet.

As I mentioned before the only thing is the file size is about 1.35% bigger when using the ~DVD stream option and all other parameters set as with the SVCD settings of DVD2SVCD but this is no big problem as one could set the CD size to 790MB for example. If you would adjust the internal bitrate calculation of DVD2SVCD so that one could leave the 800MB CD size - that would be the icing on the cake but this is really no big problem at all as I can easily live with setting the CD size to 790MB instead. :)

Yours thankful,
Gerti

[ChRoNiX]

Hello D2S,

I would be cool if you add those features into you program!

Did you also read my "other" problem? When I try to convert my DV (PAL, homemade) video with CCE or TMPGEnc they both complain about a wrong video (output) size .. they both try to convert the 720x576 movie to 736x56 using DVD2SVCD!

When I startup TMPGEnc manually it indeed says 736x56 .. when I change back the values to 480x576 all works well .. i guess that's a dvd2svcd issue too?

Thank in advance,
ChRoN

[Staubi]

Hi Gerti,

Great news! Looks like we got a reasonable solution to the 210e sync problem.
Question. Are you saying that you let DVD2SVCD finish completely (= create muxed mpeg files), then demux and remux again with bbMPEG?

Thanks,

Staubi

[gerti67]

Hi Staubi,

yes I did let D2S finish as usual then I used the TMPGEnc MPEG Tools and did a simple de-mux and then re-muxed the files again with bbMPEG with the settings I described above. Only thing was that the filesize got slightly bigger with that but you can avoid this in the future by setting a CD size of 790 MB before doing an encode then I did a crash recovery from the SVCD Authoring step and got the perfect images for the Toshiba - but be aware it is not tested on other players but I can test two different brands this weekend and will report back on that.

But great news is that the next version of DVD2SVCD allows you to set these bbMPEG paramters right before doing a conversion and so you don't have to de- and re-mux. ;)

Greetings,
Gerti