Xvid's GUI [Archive] - Doom9's Forum

communist

18th July 2004, 14:22

Imho the DivX GUI just plain bad - to say it 'softly' ;)
Its way too bloated / overloaded and big for simple setup of a codec + I dont think there is more to configure in DivX than in XviD.
I prefer XviDs simple / pure approach way over DivX's way too big GUI.

http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s304280/pics/DivX52.jpg
That banner - what for? Not sure if its there if you buy DivX Pro - but its in the trial. The profiles thingy is something that I highly dislike - they just created their own 'standards'... hmm where have we seen this approach?!

http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s304280/pics/XviD101.jpg
Just compare how much space each takes and how much settings you can do.
I'm not sure if such big texts are supposed to placed at such locations but IMHO tool tips should give a short explanation and the rest should be in the manual (especially since DivX has a manual).

If there are things that could be added to XviD's GUI its supposedly the much wanted feature "saving and loading settings to / from files".

Splashdriver

18th July 2004, 14:58

I guess that's just a matter of taste. I wouldn't mind seeing some more colors in Xvid's GUI, it wouldn't have to be like DivX, but still....

CruNcher

18th July 2004, 15:05

colors are un1337 ;)
unless it serves a purpose ofcourse
wich those banner above the DivX Gui surely doesn't :P
btw in those area web code can be loaded also could become a security problem soon who knows ;)

communist

18th July 2004, 15:11

IMHO its just like with audio and video hardware ;)
Colorful = consumer
Grey = pro

virus

18th July 2004, 15:24

look, you even set the bitrate to 1337 :)

IMHO the devs with specific knowledge of the MPEG-4 standard should concentrate on the coding of the core features and don't waste time on GUI stuff. That kind of work (additional options, new GUI, external tools) should be contributed by external coders which don't have enough experience about the guts of the codec, following the "Want it? Code it!" rule ;)

just my 2 cents
virus

Teegedeck

18th July 2004, 16:10

:D

I'd like to see separate dialogues again.
The first one would be just filesize/first pass/second pass.
If you would keep the same settings for all encodes you wouldn't see much more of the config than just this.

The second one would pop-up if you hit a 'settings'-button and would look something like this:
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Teegedeck/XviD_GUI2.gif

One slider for features; starting with harmless/necessary stuff and going upwards to the cpu-power-hogs.

One combined slider for ME precision/VHQ.

All the rest, including zones and the option to override the sliders would hide under the 'geek stuff' hyperlink.

I would hope sliders like that would enable most newbies to reach their own compromise between speed and quality by intuition.

nanga parbat

18th July 2004, 17:30

maybe somthing like after installing it asks you if you'd like it to show in 'guided mode' or 'advanced mode' (which should be just like it's now imo). and if so, 'never ask me again' should definately be added ;) .

seriousely, i can understand why some people need something more simple. when i first started encoding with xvid (which was way back with the old gui) i too was a little bit swamped with all the things you could tick on or off or otherwise tamper with.
however, now i just like it the way it is, you think like you still can change someting (for the better)...

personally i would've enjoyed if xvid never got a serious version number, but that's a little besides the piont.

as for colours, well i won't tell you what i think about that. it could be insulting and i won't let that happen.

nanga

Splashdriver

18th July 2004, 19:30

Never mind. It was just a question to find out if there was anyone interested in creating some nice artful design. Obviously nobody likes the idea of seeing such a (graphical) change for a future xvid version.

as for colours, well i won't tell you what i think about that. it could be insulting and i won't let that happen.
Ooh...Thanks for that kind of information, nice man

SeeMoreDigital

18th July 2004, 19:55

I would not mind seeing a different GUI...

I would quite like to see separate 'Simple Profile' and 'Advanced Simple Profile' settings...

...but hey that's me ;)

Soulhunter

18th July 2004, 22:20

@ Teegedeck

Ok, its done... ;)

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/2744/XviD_for_N00bs_v1_by_Soulhunter.png

And here is the ultra n00b version... :D

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6070/XviD_for_N00bs_v2_by_Soulhunter.png

Bye

unmei

18th July 2004, 23:54

I agree a reorganising of the GUI would probably not hurt. Even tho i get along well with the current layout i do think some boxes are somehow in strange places, or opening like 3 popups to check everything is as you want it is probably a bit more annoying than if it were 3 additional tabs. Whatever..

But i don't like Teegedecks features slider!
It could be good for beginners yes, but how do i GMC without Adaptive Quantisation for instance?
What i like about the checkboxes is they don't imply a more-even more-best order. If someone doesn't like a features s/he doesn't have to use it but still can use all (hmm most?) of the other features.

And also, please no fancy bloat stuff ..

@ soulhunter: i'm sorry but your noob GUI has already been patented by microsoft :p

BITS

19th July 2004, 03:41

as i mentioned in a nother thread, i would like to see the "Encoding Type:" pulldown turned into a radial button config. i find it irretating sometimes to have to pull that thing down, and sometimes i didnt do it right and i have to do it again. radial's would cut that aggrevation.

also as i mentioned in another thread, in "Traget Bitrate:" selecting 0,-3 characters by default. i never change the last 3 zeros to anything ever since they only represnt KB's. this way user could just type right into it without having to position and delete.

also if there could be a "Show/Hide" button placed on the side of the form that would show/hide ALL available options would be nice.

that is my 2 cents :-).

superdump

19th July 2004, 22:23

I designed an alternative GUI (using paint) a while ago but no-one got round to coding it. Someone hosted the pictures for me but they've disappeared from the #xvid irc channel iirc so they may have been lost into the aether. I'll see if I can dig them out for you guys to have a look.

CruNcher

19th July 2004, 22:31

http://www.nollapiste.com/xvid/untitled1.2.html -> superdumps gui idea :)
its allready worked on in tab mode tough but development stoped as Medic is working on his Sprite RPG Engine @ the moment and me is still researching on the Extra_Detail Profile :P but i'll post some screens of it so that you can say what you think about it :)

SeeMoreDigital

19th July 2004, 22:35

Blimey, superdump has been a busy boy :)

Cheers

superdump

19th July 2004, 22:43

Heh heh. Thanks CruNcher. :)

SeeMoreDigital: I did that ages ago but no-one ever got round to it. I was thinking of something along the lines of the ffvfw layout but tailored for a specific codec.

CruNcher

19th July 2004, 23:16

Here as promised the pics :)

Profiles Tab
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/profiles.png
Quality Tab
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/quality.png
Rate Control Tab
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/rc2pass.png
Debug Tab
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/phagain/debug.png

Zones wasn't finished back then :(
and Aspect Ratio not implemented sorry
everything is win32api no MFC involved here ;)

unmei

20th July 2004, 00:53

that looks like something practical.
I like the idea with the mode / target always visible on top. Then there are tabs ..niice :) Maybe there is stuff on the other tabs that would move into the zones tab, right?

On the other website there was the B-VOP sensitivity in the box with the other B-VOP stuff which i think is a good idea ..
(ATM i don't quite see why the sensitivity should be changeable in zones but not the max. consequtive) ..but this last one is not actually important to me, just a thought..

Splashdriver

20th July 2004, 01:17

yes, I really like this. What about Turbo with B-frames? and maybe a help-Tab? Still, this GUI looks very practical indeed.

Greetings,
Splashdriver

SeeMoreDigital

20th July 2004, 09:38

Does anybody actually use the bitrate slider?

I can honestly say... I never have!

Cheers

jk888

20th July 2004, 10:01

Just getting all the tool-tips to work in the existing GUI would go a long way. It will be helpful to answer all those newbie questions.

BITS

20th July 2004, 21:56

am i all alone in thinking radial buttons are a good idea? i must of missed my design class on that day. (i cant stand pulldowns :-)

Teegedeck

20th July 2004, 22:25

Here's another newbie-friendly, ultra-accessible dream-GUI for XviD. ;-)

I'd like a GUI intuitive enough that first-timers don't have to ask in order to get what they want out of the codec (and especially it would be nice if they could make use of custom-quantizers, too, though I don't actually believe that what I have in mind for that is possible). Also I'd like to have the most important settings in one clean dialogue; and also having complete controll over the other settings not too far from one's fingertips would be great.

That's only possible IMHO by 1) meaningful simplifications (a unified quality-slider) and 2) presets. At least for the second one I do have my doubts whether it is possible. But hey, we're just dreaming away here, aren't we?

Number 1) could be done by generalizing 'most people who use vhq won't use anything below ME precision 6; so we might as well combine that into one slider and start with VHQ levels after ME precision=6. Also, most of XviD's features should always be used or at least hurt little if used. I'd propose that only the lowest slider setting ('0', meaning ME precision=1) would mean not using advanced-simple-profile features. Starting with '1', all of them except for GMC would be used. All that would change when moving the slider between '1' and '9' would be ME precision and, starting with '6', VHQ. '10' would mean also activating GMC, the biggest CPU-strain.

Now you will, say, you don't want that oversimplified crap - or want to use for example GMC with VHQ=1. OK, but you could still just open the 'geek stuff' dialogue and deactivate/activate anything you don't want to use or just override the sliders completely. This thing would just be there for people who like it simple.

Then you could say, Quarter Pixel and AQ have shown to produce bad results on some movies, we should not let unsuspecting beginners use that stuff. OK, as this is hard to generalize and sometimes impossible to know before you actually have encoded, my suggestion would be, if a user isn't content with the results, he should have the option to try it a different way in the 2nd go!
Now for this I'd like a 'panic button' which deactivates all features at once that are reported to be benevolent most of the time, but bad in some cases. The 'panic button' would also deactivate cartoon mode, for example. That way newbies wouldn't have to analyze their stuff or learn what quarter pixel or adaptive quantization do but have a good chance of finding and deactivating the culprit(s) with little strain. How about naming this thing 'try this if your first attempt came out awkward'? (It should better not be called 'safe mode' because in that case newbies would activate it all the time.)

Also, wouldn't it be nice if just anyone could use the right combination of custom matrices and features for the content he/she wants to encode? This would be 'number 2) from above.
How about presets (edit: 'optimize for...') that consist of a matrix (of course also user-definable ones) and an override for some settings. Handy presets might include matrices for transparent to low-qual encodings (the latter one decativating Quarter Pixel also). Even better would be an anime-preset consisting of either the CG/cartoon-matrix or H.263 and cartoon mode. The good old greyscale and the 'interlace' mode could also deserve a place in the frontmost layer of the GUI.

What else would be needed in the main setup-dialogue?
The option to enter the beginning of the credits, I think. The most common use for zones is only that one. And a fixed, high quantizer is the most reliable way of dealing with credits. (The original zone tabs would still be there, though.)

I guess a link to the usual decoder settings and one to the expert settings ('geek stuff').

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Teegedeck/XviD_GUI_main.gif

The 'geek stuff' could consist of three tabs; the debug and zones-tabs as we know them and one tab where the main changes would consist in the option to define quantizer-matrices for the presets as well as defining at what quantizer the first pass should be performed (necessary for high-bitrate matrices). I know that would make my encoding-life a whole lot easier.

Also the standard quantizer for credits-treatment could be defined here. And of course the option to configure XviD completely without the slider if you want.

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Teegedeck/XviD_GUI_geek.gif

Ah, that would be my dream-GUI at the moment...

Excuse the crappy drawings (Yes, that is OOo's spelling correction you see there...)as well as the fact that I can talk a lot but cannot programm a single line... Talk is cheap.

Edit: Hehe; forgot the two-pass tab, aspect and the 'Load Defaults'-button among other things... Use your imagination and add two more tabs... BTW, how about a more catchy name for that button? 'Restore Recommended Settings' for example? :D

unmei

21st July 2004, 00:26

I assume the "optimise for" picks one of the "quantisation" matrix presets?

I for one could easily live with opening that one geek dialog, it is imo still much more convienent than the 3 (or were it 4) dialogs with access buttons scattered over the main window.
Also this design presents all the tweakies i usually want to see in one single tab, which is nice. My only fear here is this thing would become quite big, but then again you don't need to see 'behind' this window and the amount of users this would pose problems due to their screen resolution is small nowadays (i guess).
The two checkboxes per switch might be a bit strange at the beginning.. it could be better to have a single checkbox per switch (like now) and one global one for override ..like this
[X] Override Sliders!
and when the user moves a slider, the global override would get disabled and all the switch checkboxes below set to what this slider position represents and they become grayed out until the user checks [X] Override Sliders! again. This way you would know what a particular slider position stands for and you can start off tweaking from there.

Other than that, not presenting the tweakies is probably a good idea for the sake of this (and other) forum.
We all know how tempting it is to try all the settings that look l33t or misterious ..and a user easily loses overview with 3 (or 4?) dialogs and the same goes for tabs if you don't know if you have something important enabled in the 'back tabs' ..therefore teegs design is good in that you can simply move the slider a bit and be sure you only have the settings that correspond to what is set on the main window.

Sharktooth

21st July 2004, 00:32

@Teegedeck

All that stuff may be already possible... a little gui hack with "User profiles" would do the trick.

gnr

23rd July 2004, 20:17

Originally posted by Splashdriver
Never mind. It was just a question to find out if there was anyone interested in creating some nice artful design. Obviously nobody likes the idea of seeing such a (graphical) change for a future xvid version.

[i]
Ooh...Thanks for that kind of information, nice man

as xvid is related to graphics and multimedia it surely needs a fancy picture like divx. dont u think? the picture wont help anything but it will look better and when it will look better ppl will like it more.....it will create a impression whenever anyone will use it for the first time.

CruNcher

24th July 2004, 01:27

@gnr doesn't we get allready enough manipulated nowdays in our society ?
but to make ya a pleasure and everyone who wants something fancy as a XviD fan :)

XviD QPS Wallpaper 1024
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/XviD-1024-final.png

XviD QPS Wallpaper 1600
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/XviD-1600-final.jpg

QPS = Quality, Precision, Speed
everything that DivX lacks ;)

r0cket

24th July 2004, 02:27

:) that 'smarter than your eyes' thing is kinda fun ;)

gnr

24th July 2004, 22:15

Originally posted by CruNcher
@gnr doesn't we get allready enough manipulated nowdays in our society ?
but to make ya a pleasure and everyone who wants something fancy as a XviD fan :)

XviD QPS Wallpaper 1024
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/XviD-1024-final.png

XviD QPS Wallpaper 1600
http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/XviD-1600-final.jpg

QPS = Quality, Precision, Speed
everything that DivX lacks ;)

its nice .... it can be use as a gui's header....need to crop it though

Splashdriver

25th July 2004, 08:42

Just for fun I REcreated a previous posted GUI.

@Cruncher(I hope you don't mind I leant one of your wallpapers and GUI just for fun;) )

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/5585/profiles_new_example1a.png

Ofcourse it's not finished at all, but I think it's quite fun to look at, don't you think?.

Greetings,
Splashdriver:D

SeeMoreDigital

25th July 2004, 15:03

Well OK then... here's my suggestion: -

http://img23.exs.cx/img23/3198/SMD_Proposed_XviD_GUI.gif

The general idea is to keep the 'Simple Profile' settings totally separate from the 'Advanced Simple Profile' settings

Cheers

Koepi

25th July 2004, 15:27

Cool, H264 quantisation! Who coded that and didn't tell anyone? ;)

Splashdriver

25th July 2004, 16:21

@SeeMoreDigital

yes, I think it's a good idea to keep Simple Profile separate from Advanced Simple Profile as (I think) it seems a bit more clearly to the interface. Under ASP Settings I see you made an extra box to select the type of B-frames. Adaptive b-frames, isn't that the same method that's now been introduced by the (currently) new DivX 5.2 codec?? Does this mean Xvid will (even more) intelligently apply b-frames which should be bound to enhance compression even more? I think I would be pleased to see such a nice (working;)) MPEG4-feature in any future Xvid-build soon (Or am I completely missing the point and does Xvid already know such method of applying b-frames??). I also see a Information Window...what's the idea behind that?

Greetings,
Splashdriver

bond

25th July 2004, 17:00

Originally posted by Splashdriver
I see you made an extra box to select the type of B-frames. Adaptive b-frames, isn't that the same method that's now been introduced by the (currently) new DivX 5.2 codec??lol, i didnt know that divx is responsible for "introducing" mpeg-4 features ;)

nanga parbat

25th July 2004, 17:06

That looks really good, SeeMoreDigital! I like that. No confusion, plain and simple.

Is that 'Advanced Options' meant to be a button? Sure it must be, somewhere we need to set MSP, VHQ and all that stuff.
Erm and 'Bitrate Speed'? I am not native English, so what sorta expression is that? I mean I know what field that is and what it's for, just that i've never heard of speed in that context.

Do I understand correct, if one would select 'Simple Profile' that the ASP stuff would be greyed out?

well, but really nice suggestion.

nanga

niamh

25th July 2004, 17:17

SeeMore, I think you're onto something ;)
I kinda like that GUI...Maybe the bottom panel could be retractable? ( to make it smaller by default)

SeeMoreDigital

25th July 2004, 18:58

Hey, thanks for the encouragement you guys :)

Originally posted by Koepi
Cool, H264 quantisation! Who coded that and didn't tell anyone? ;) Yea, I thought you XviD guys might be able to knock something together, in between having a life and visiting the Doom9 forum :D

Originally posted by Splashdriver
I see you made an extra box to select the type of B-frames. Yes well, I think most people know of my "issues" regarding B-VOP. So if it's possible to have different implementations, why not make allowances for it... me thinks!

Originally posted by nanga parbat
...Is that 'Advanced Options' meant to be a button? Yep, there's one of these buttons already in the existing GUI

Originally posted by nanga parbat
Do I understand correct, if one would select 'Simple Profile' that the ASP stuff would be greyed out? Yes, that was my line of thinking :cool:

Originally posted by niamh
I kinda like that GUI...Maybe the bottom panel could be retractable? (to make it smaller by default) Yea, good idea...

I'm just happy some of you liked the general idea and could see the logic behind it... I just wish I had the brains to make stuff like this work in the real world...

Thanks again... Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

26th July 2004, 09:26

Tweaked... for your pleasure...

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/4666/SMD_Proposed_XviD_GUI_3.gif

Cheers

Koepi

26th July 2004, 09:48

Hm, now you start to mix up things :-/

Interlaced encoding has nothing to do with I-VOPs per se (I-VOPs are Intra-frames [keyframes]).

Reduced Resolution is a feature which isn't compliant to any profile we're usually dealing with here (simple/advanced simple), it's for streaming only, in cases where the bandwidth doesn't suffice for the "whole" resolution. It's not implemented as such feature yet and will most likely get thrown out again soon.

And still it's h.263 quantisation matrix... ;)

What's supposed to appear in the information box?

Regards
Koepi

communist

26th July 2004, 09:55

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Tweaked... for your pleasure...

Of course there would be boxes to check for GMC / QPEL etc and not radio buttons ;)

SeeMoreDigital

26th July 2004, 11:11

Okay, for this latest incarnation, I've switched things around a bit.

The 'Zones' panel is over on the 'Left' plain - So it looks more like the original GUI and the confusing H.264 and I-VOP tags have been replaced...

http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3725/SMD_Proposed_XviD_GUI_6.gif

With regard to the 'Information Window' I thought it might be useful to put details about what some of the functions do. Maybe you could implement this by right clicking over the required function!

And when it's not in use, we could have a cool XviD logo in there... or maybe even a 'crop screen' :)

I've also included some images of the function you get with Recode2. Does anybody know what some of them do. And if they would be useful to us XviD users?

Recode2 - Quality/Speed Settings
http://img69.exs.cx/img69/616/SMDRecode2GUIQualitySpeedSettings.gif

Recode2 - Advanced Settings
http://img55.exs.cx/img55/9776/SMDRecode2GUIAdvanced.gif

Cheers

Soulhunter

27th July 2004, 17:07

Inspired by CruNcher's cool slogan... my new HTPC wallpaper !!! (http://img63.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img63&image=Smart_X_1024_Wide_01_by_Soulhunter.png)

EDIT: Think I should note that I use a Matrix theme... ;)

Bye

SeeMoreDigital

27th July 2004, 17:36

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Inspired by CruNcher's cool slogan... my new HTPC wallpaper !!! (http://img69.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img69&image=Smart_X_1024_Wide_01_by_Soulhunter.png) Yep,

I think I can live with this :D

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/2746/SMD_Proposed_XviD_GUI_7.gif

Cheers

Soulhunter

27th July 2004, 18:30

Offtopic, but...

I know that there are tons of wallpapers n' logos for DivX, but where are some nice ones for XviD ???

Maybe its worthy to start a thread to collect some... :confused:

Bye

opsis81

27th July 2004, 18:39

Well done SeeMoreDigital!
Your latest GUI is excellent!!!

virus

27th July 2004, 18:42

:eek: the horror!

That green X on a black background smells too much xbox. Please guys, avoid connecting XviD with shitty M$ stuff...

just my 2 cents
virus

SeeMoreDigital

27th July 2004, 18:52

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Offtopic, but...

I know that there are tons of wallpapers n' logos for DivX, but where are some nice ones for XviD ???

Maybe its worthy to start a thread to collect some... :confused: How about we start by getting some of the DivX logo's, mirroring them and then inverting the colours :D... Like this...

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/6069/SMD_DivX_to_XviD.jpg

Narrrh... perhaps not!

Cheers

SeeMoreDigital

27th July 2004, 19:10

Originally posted by virus
:eek: the horror!

That green X on a black background smells too much xbox. Please guys, avoid connecting XviD with shitty M$ stuff...

You're right.. that just wont do!

This is better me thinks...

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/507/SMD_Proposed_XviD_GUI_8.gif

Cheers

cid_xvid

27th July 2004, 20:32

Please think of another languajes (support for translations).

Thanks! ¡Adios!

niamh

27th July 2004, 21:01

hehehehe, support languages for a jpg :D:D:D

I wish I could draw (nevermind using photoshop OR making a GUI) I feel useless ,even though I've had a few ideas..

Soulhunter

27th July 2004, 21:04

Originally posted by virus
That green X on a black background smells too much xbox. Please guys, avoid connecting XviD with shitty M$ stuff...
Gah, they could accuse me... :scared:

Maybe a red version (http://img51.exs.cx/img51/4937/Smart_X_1024_Wide_02_by_Soulhunter.png) or a blue one (http://img62.exs.cx/img62/9427/Smart_X_1024_Wide_03_by_Soulhunter.png) ???

Btw, much ppl use the Xbox to play their XviD encodes !!!

Bye

SeeMoreDigital

27th July 2004, 21:04

Originally posted by niamh
...I wish I could draw (nevermind using photoshop OR making a GUI) I feel useless ,even though I've had a few ideas.. I did my GUI proposal using HyperSnap-DX 5.

Cheers

Teegedeck

27th July 2004, 21:18

Your designs all look so good! But doesn't anybody want to win the 'Newbie-Friendliness-Award' by adding a newbie-tab? I'd love it if anybody would incorporate 'my sliders thing'. :p Something like a power indicator from red (fast and ugly) to deep-green (slow and yummy). (Hummm; I should've added AR to my proposal, too..).

Imagine people saying "Oh, I used Ogg Vorbis at q=5 and XviD at S/Q=6." Ahh, that would make our favourite codec even more popular...

Soulhunter

27th July 2004, 21:46

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Something like a power indicator from red (fast and ugly) to deep-green (slow and yummy).Like this... (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Power_slider.gif) :confused:

Bye

Sharktooth

27th July 2004, 21:55

@SMD: I like it... but... what about adding "User profiles" with load, save, restore defaults buttonz ? ;)

Teegedeck

27th July 2004, 22:16

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Like this... (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Power_slider.gif) :confused: Yeah... Cool. (:cool: )

twist3d

27th July 2004, 22:19

here's my intervention with xvid logo :D
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/iiro.sievanen/xvid1.gif

niamh

27th July 2004, 22:59

I love it :)

unmei

27th July 2004, 23:45

YIHA!
yes, twist3d, this is one hot logo.
heart warming > industrial cool :)

Ana

27th July 2004, 23:56

Nice! :)

The thing I most miss in current xvid gui is saveable user profiles. I think the first gui screen shouldn't be too complex. First screen could be more like the one in Teegedeck's (with red to green speed/quality slider :D ) vision. It would help people to get started with xvid and under advanced otions you could find all the geek stuff.

thoralf

28th July 2004, 02:52

Originally posted by Ana
The thing I most miss in current xvid gui is saveable user profiles. I think the first gui screen shouldn't be too complex. First screen could be more like the one in Teegedeck's (with red to green speed/quality slider :D ) vision. It would help people to get started with xvid and under advanced otions you could find all the geek stuff.

I agree with this.

About the logo: This animal thingie looks a bit scary to me - it is not exactly one of those heart-warming mascots ... and the slogan "smarter than your eyes" is - well, swanky. I mean, there are still macroblocks, aren't they ? :-)
Maybe i'm just picky - just my two cents ...

with kind regards,
Thoralf.

twist3d

28th July 2004, 08:09

This animal thingie looks a bit scary to me - it is not exactly one of those heart-warming mascots ...
hehe you're right. but something tells me that teddybear or teletubby just doesn't work with xvid.
tarsier = scary little guy with big blood-red eyes = xvid user :D

and the slogan "smarter than your eyes" is - well, swanky. I mean, there are still macroblocks, aren't they ?
well i didn't invent the slogan :)

and it was just a 5min photoshop work :D but i'd like to see more entries, not necessarily in this thread (maybe we should start a new?).

CruNcher

28th July 2004, 12:51

What do you think about this :D

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/XviD52-2.png

*hides*

thats not my idea but from some crazy guy :rolleyes:

superdump

28th July 2004, 13:21

twist3d's logo is awesome. Could you make a background out of it on a similar theme. Maybe make the bush-baby thing a lot bigger with the same colour scheme or maybe a blue one. :)

CruNcher

28th July 2004, 14:02

A little history about XviD Guis :)

1st

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/2001_11_03.png

2nd

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/2001_11_21_1.png

3rd

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/devapi-3.png

4th

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/devapi-4.png

5th

??????

CruNcher

28th July 2004, 14:54

MF's Design idea

http://mf.onthanet.com/xvid_newconfig.png

Soulhunter

28th July 2004, 17:41

Originally posted by CruNcher
MF's Design idea...Even baning cant stop him from posting some cool stuff... :)

Btw, why not adding some sort of (n00b friendly) "hints" tab ???

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/9076/mfs_5.png

Only some of the basic stuff like -> how to setup a 2Pass encode... :rolleyes:

And dont forget the "log encoding status" hack virus invented !!!

Bye

twist3d

28th July 2004, 18:11

superdump: I'm really not an graphics artist, but I gave it a go.
here's (http://personal.inet.fi/koti/iiro.sievanen/xvid_desktop.jpg) the crappy result, I can't much upsize the tarsier as it's source image is in very low resolution.

Soulhunter

28th July 2004, 19:54

Ok, same style as before but different... :)

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/5862/Smart_X_1024_05_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img59.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img59&image=Smart_X_1024_05_by_Soulhunter.png) http://img51.exs.cx/img51/3134/Smart_X_1024_A1_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img51.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img51&image=Smart_X_1024_A1_by_Soulhunter.png) http://img51.exs.cx/img51/7812/Smart_X_1024_A2_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img51.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img51&image=Smart_X_1024_A2_by_Soulhunter.png)

EDIT: And two red ones...

http://img70.exs.cx/img70/5959/Evil_X_02.th.png (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Evil_X_02.png) http://img70.exs.cx/img70/4340/Evil_X_01.th.png (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Evil_X_01.png)

EDIT: And another green one...

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/752/Green_TechX_02.th.png (http://img65.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img65&image=Green_TechX_02.png)

Bye

Leak

28th July 2004, 20:43

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Ok, same style as before but different... :)

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/5862/Smart_X_1024_05_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img59.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img59&image=Smart_X_1024_05_by_Soulhunter.png) http://img51.exs.cx/img51/3134/Smart_X_1024_A1_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img51.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img51&image=Smart_X_1024_A1_by_Soulhunter.png) http://img51.exs.cx/img51/7812/Smart_X_1024_A2_by_Soulhunter.th.png (http://img51.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img51&image=Smart_X_1024_A2_by_Soulhunter.png)

EDIT: And two red ones...

http://img70.exs.cx/img70/5959/Evil_X_02.th.png (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Evil_X_02.png) http://img70.exs.cx/img70/4340/Evil_X_01.th.png (http://img70.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img70&image=Evil_X_01.png)

Yay - more crosshairs for Unreal Tournament 2k4! :D:D:D

np: Twine - Surn (Immediate Action comp.)

Ana

28th July 2004, 21:00

@CruNcher

The gui made by "some crazy guy" looks promising. There aren't too many options to scare noobs away and it's more atractive than present gui. Apparently there would be advanced settings button to access all xvid's properties?

Soulhunter

28th July 2004, 21:06

Originally posted by Leak
Yay - more crosshairs for Unreal Tournament 2k4! :D:D:DLol, sometimes this damn bots are also smarter than my eyes, so... :D :D :D

Nah, actually its a simple transistor display X !!!

Bye

niamh

28th July 2004, 22:35

Ana, I don't know if you're carrying on the joke , but since you sound rather serious :D,well.........we have to tell you the bad news....... it's the DivX 5 GUI, Crunched up©...out of the question of course ;)

@Cruncher : LOL.

I've been working hard on photoediting, I've been so far as putting a header...maybe in 6 months will I produce something :D
I like Mf's design too, but he used the dev-api-3 settings.

niamh

29th July 2004, 04:44

Here is my little contribution to teegedeck's dream GUI. Well so far, nobody bothered so :D

http://img63.exs.cx/img63/2664/GUIforimbeciles.jpg

comments:
I know you wanted a slider for all sort of matrices, but they're not part of XviD, so a slider would be pointless. I added the edit matrix box instead.(setting ''smooth'' would make H-263 appear in the matrix box for example too, as it exactly does not right now :D )

I separated the visual stuff into 2 checkboxes : Disable the advanced stuff refers to Qpel, gmc and AQ, and disable the basic stuff would refer to the safe stuff i.e. trellis, chroma motion and B-Frames

Of course for one box checked, you'd have to have tons of stuff ''greying out'' in the background, like for example ticking divx certified would set the B-frame slider to ''divx'' and grey out, or ticking ''disable basic visual stuff'' would grey out B-frames, trellis and chroma motion (only way to recover them would be untick that box), and of course ticking Greyscale would disable chroma motion for example ;)
I don't see the point of putting a choice for 2 pass-1st pass and 2nd pass, the n00b GUI should synch both together to avoid disasters I think.Am I wrong? (Easy to change)
I have the feeling ''Divx certified'' is needed for those wet blankets with a standalone too :)
B-frames need not be tweaked too much off/1/2(and defaults) should be enough for newbies....

Well, Teegedeck, it was for you, so I'd be glad if you commented :)

Teegedeck

29th July 2004, 07:51

Ohhh! Thank you! :) :) :)

Edit: Of course I'd like to comment some more. First of all, thank you again for making that effort! I myself absolutely can't do such stuff and thus I could not really know how it would turn out to look. It looks great! :D

About the GUI options: Perhaps it should be even simpler: Newbies propbably won't want to use those B-frame options, hardware profiles should suffice. For matrices the option could perhaps be called smooth, sharp and 'more'?

Hm, I also thought about AR, but an option to set the aspect ratio in the Newbie-GUI would lead to many mistakes, don't you think?

The idea of running second pass automatically after first pass is ingenious!

-- Ah, I love it!

Ana

29th July 2004, 08:08

Is it already that long since I last used Divx. Seems to be. :rolleyes: I really didn't remember any more how it looked like. Well Divx has better gui than xvid. :D

niamh

29th July 2004, 12:48

It looks great!
Thank you for all the praise :) But my blue Windows skin really helps to make it look nice.
I myself absolutely can't do such stuff
Me neither :D. I just felt obliged lol
Newbies propbably won't want to use those B-frame options, hardware profiles should suffice.
You really think? The way I've made them, they really aren't confusing...I thought it a nice option, and if it'
s going to be the same size as SeeMore's, well I've room. Let's say they would move to their own slider according to the profile(but can be changed)?
Hm, I also thought about AR, but an option to set the aspect ratio in the Newbie-GUI would lead to many mistakes, don't you think?
I agree, though If you leave me my B-Fames, I'll think on your AR :D..I'll move things around today a bit,there's more room to be gained :)

niamh

29th July 2004, 23:57

latest version of the n00b gui :)

http://hosting.picgoo.com/uploads7/gui_for_imbeciles0.2.jpg

[edited the link]

malkion

30th July 2004, 00:29

You know, I was pondering on that noobie or basic GUI one post up...

Can we not mention DivX certified or DivX style?

Instead it could be standalone player certified.

I just dont like to see DivX appear on the Xvid encoding options. They're not related.

/edit

Also, Zones should be more dynamic. Allowing whatever can be modified appear in zones. Unless the current zone settings already contains all you can allow to be changed using Zones.

As it is, zoning allows usage of different quants and switching from Greyscale to Color, as well as enabling chroma optimizer. Are there any other settings that can be set by zones (i.e. chroma motion, etc.)?

niamh

30th July 2004, 00:52

it could be standalone player certified
Well that makes around 6 or 7 certifications..DivX certified is an official certification for the most basic players out there, of course it probably wouldn't be possible to put it in a gui, due to copyrights :D. That doesn't mean XviD is related to Divx in any way. If I edit this, I will put "basic standalone" and "simple" instead of the offending words.(I was thinking that choosing divx certified would trigger packed bitstream too, that one is a problem on its own)
Also, Zones should be more dynamic.
Well, there are no zones in this gui for a start :) Only a little side box for newbies to set credits(If a newbie can use zones and set all the stuff manually, he ought to have no need of this gui.Actually he wouldn't be a newbie anymore)
Zones(and all the rest) would be under the big "advanced GUI" button. This gui is merely a wizard front-end according to the - I quote ;) - "dream-gui" of teegedeck. I adapted stuff he wrote on page 1 :)

To see the "backyard", please have a look at SeeMoreDigital GUI.

BoNz1

30th July 2004, 03:44

I don't know about everybody else but I really don't like this n00b gui idea. It will get in the way of more advanced users. Personally, I really like SMD idea of having everything you need on one window. I played around with this idea last night. I made the gui part last night, maybe I can get the code in behind to work too ;). This sort of idea makes sense IMO. As for the n00b gui, I am not suggesting we leave them out in the cold. Quite the opposite in fact. For anyone who hasn't noticed ffdshow video encoder has a nice preset button. This picture illustrates what I would like to see in XviD's gui:
http://img67.exs.cx/img67/2881/ffdshowpreset.jpg

unmei

30th July 2004, 08:36

if you only had to set the tweak checkbox once forever.. On install the picture would show of course, but later only when you load a profile (unchecks the box)
The trick is you have to have this little box on the bottom checked to see anthing more than in the first picture. If you uncheck again you get reverted and locked down to profiles.
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/mieru/doom9/xvidgui-shot1.jpg
tweaking..
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/mieru/doom9/xvidgui-shot2.png

you have to imagine the other tabs content for yourself. My point was only the hiding of tabs. Everything still nicely compact in one place but hidden if not relevant. (and of course the acutal logo thing in the picture is also not my point:D)

Teegedeck

30th July 2004, 09:59

Very nice also! And interesting. The question is, would people prefer having less options but a lot more presets to compensate for that (fast anime encode, good anime encode...)?

I think that the development of XviD's GUI is about to make a leap ahead if we (like we do now ) not only re-arrange the known switches but start discussing a) what the userbase really wants and how to help them get it most easily and b) how powerusers can access their favourite settings from one place with the least number of clicks.

Meaningful presets which intelligently influence each other and a GUI which uses intuition in order to steer the user into the right direction could be the key IMHO. I hope that some of that will eventually make it into an actual, new GUI; especially if we get some 'optimized' ideas from this discussion here.

@niamh: Hmmm, I like that blue-ish style. ;) The figures beneath the slider are a nice touch, as well as the direct input of credits-start-frame. But perhaps you could clean it up a bit more? Me thinks, a typical n00b will not know why he should want to use B-frames in DivX- or XviD-style or what kind of quantization he should want to use. I still cannot give up on my idea that quantization-types should be linked to the content the user wants to encode or to the general idea he has for his encode (H.264 or CG-matrix for cartoons/anime, SixOfNine-HVS for standard encodes, SixOfNine for HiQ-Encodes, perhaps Javor's 1CD-matrix for low bitrates?). That would require arranging presets in a dropdown list like unmei's. If such presets were user-definable it would save me a lot of clicks!

BTW, I wouldn't allow to export/import presets. It would enable know-nothings to spread their nonsensical presets rapidly into wanna-be-l33t-n00b-world.

Leak

30th July 2004, 12:28

Originally posted by Teegedeck
I think that the development of XviD's GUI is about to make a leap ahead if we (like we do now ) not only re-arrange the known switches but start discussing a) what the userbase really wants and how to help them get it most easily and b) how powerusers can access their favourite settings from one place with the least number of clicks.

Well, one thing IMHO is certain - XviD's GUI currently doesn't make use of the available screen real estate; if you're encoding video at resolutions of 720x576 it doesn't make sense to cram XviD's options into a small 344x439 size window - at least make the window 640 pixels wide and use the extra space; 800x600 or even 1024x768 would IMHO make even more sense... :)

And if you're going to implement a noob-friendly interface, please either make it an install option or add an option to turn it off permanently; I hate all those wizard-y interfaces and quite like the current setup - I'd just use tabs instead of "More..." buttons.

Oh, and I must confess I can't stand all those colorful logos, buttons and bells and whistles - if you've ever looked at a professional application you'll notice they're not exactly going overboard with those; IMHO the less the better. That's why I also prefer MPC's interface over ZoomPlayer or BSPlayer, for instance.

But maybe that's just me - just adding my .02 Euros.

np: Andreas Tilliander - Track 2 (Ljud)

Teegedeck

30th July 2004, 12:43

How about one smaller newbie-GUI and a king-sized advanced GUI crammed with options, only one click away from it? I'd say that would still save me a click or two for advanced settings.

Also, if I could have user defined presets (and the option to overrule the newbie-GUI and globally force/disallow particular features like GMC) I guess I would save a lot of time and would hardly need to use anything else but the simple interface.

nanga parbat

30th July 2004, 12:46

I myself would opt for a simple (as in logical, not over-complicated...) and clean interface that gives me all options. IMO just like the one proposed by SeeMoreDigital.

As for the beginners thingie - I find the idea of somtething like 'select startup mode' ('simple' or 'advanced' choosable accompanied by a 'never ask again') very intriguing.
How the 'simple' mode should look like i am not sure, possibly Teegedeck's sliders are a good idea.

But please, no fancy colours or logos. I know a many people will object, but that's just not what makes up this codec and IMHO it's against 'tradition' if i could say so.
And those who need to be tranquilized by a fancy theme or so...I don't know, but i feel they should go for alternatives, you name them.
And please don't attack me for ignorance or foul-play, this is what i think about those issues.

nanga

[edit]huh, two new pots since typing... i concur :)

niamh

30th July 2004, 12:49

@teegedeck
Ok, I give up on B-frames, you convinced me :) ticking basic standalone compatible would set them to 1/defaults , advanced to 2/default and disabling basic visual stuff would disable them. Maybe an extra box for very high bitrate encodes? that could disable them as well.

Now, give me a good reason why I should keep AR there, it's a damn sight more dangerous to play with that ;)

I see what you mean for quantization types too, so let's pretend they're all available by default hey.. I'll adapt the box (though I reckon that exactly what matrix should be used could lead to fist fighting)

My load user presets box was my favourite ;'(. I was thinking it as in besweet type profiles,made once and for all, loadable at one click.(I see unmei did just that)

The blu-ish style is WindowBlinds, X-Box extreme skin, hue tweaked to blu-ish(the original is sick green) Because 2K is worth it :D

@unmei
Absolute presets is a great idea, but is it even possible to have one preset load everything including the matrix, and the AR for example? I was trying to work with the actual XviD limitations(save for preset box), but maybe it's a mistake :)
Your gui is a good idea, and I was thinking along the same lines, except that what I drew was The Picture, ''switch to advanced gui'' making all the usual tabs appear. I'm just thinking that a checkbox GK style, to hide or show advanced options would be a good idea.(no need for so many tabs, of course)
http://hosting.picgoo.com/uploads7/gkhidetabs.jpg
http://hosting.picgoo.com/uploads7/gkshowtabs.jpg

The AutoGK gui is a good source of ideas too, for a newbie gui...

@BITS: if you showed me what a radial button looks like, it sounds interesting :)

and @ all who don't like the idea of a newbie gui, well, it would be one of the only tabs in there and fully bypassable, it would be horrendous to have to use it if you don't want to,plus it's most unlikely it'll ever happen :D

[edit] The fancy colours are part of my windows skin,I'm sorry if you don't like it, please use your imagination and replace by ugly grey and navy blue buttons.

[2nd edit you-post-too-fast :D]
Also, if I could have user defined presets (and the option to overrule the newbie-GUI and globally force/disallow particular features like GMC) I guess I would save a lot of time and would hardly need to use anything else but the simple interface.
My point exactly.

Teegedeck

30th July 2004, 12:58

The option to have a default start-up tab would be good.

As for logos, I don't really have an opinion on that one, as long as the codec does its job... :)

To get things a bit more systematic, do you think that I am correct when I say that users basically need to tell the codec only three things?

1. What kind of input/source must XviD handle?
2. What kind of output/result should it produce? (affected by target-bitrate, compressibility and/or hardware-restrictions)
3. How much time does it have to do this?

If one could just translate this intelligently into options/profiles... Would also be nice if XviD could take over the compressibility-related choices (matrix etc.) by itself by calculating bitrate/1st-pass-size. Dreaming along again, ain't I? :rolleyes:

Greyscale, cartoon, AR and interlaced would all be input-related; matrices and hardware-profiles would be output-related (except for cartoons where matrix-choice is determined by the input); the slider would stand for the time/efficiency part. 'disable enhancements' and AR would not really fit-in because the first one just represents an emergency-failsafe and the second one just doesn't go with the mainstream way of encoding (resizing before encoding).

@niamh: You're fast! About the AR; yes that's a conflict. It's a setting I have to use everytime I encode but newbies could wreak terrible havok with it.

LostMP4

30th July 2004, 13:37

Originally posted by Teegedeck
About the AR; yes that's a conflict. It's a setting I have to use everytime I encode but newbies could wreak terrible havok with it.
I've seen a lot of encodes (640x480, right DAR 4:3) with PAR 4:3 set because
Originally posted by ... (who cares?)
it's right and it isn't supposed to be read by decoder, so the image ramains 4:3

:rolleyes:

niamh

30th July 2004, 13:43

To get things a bit more systematic, do you think that I am correct when I say that users basically need to tell the codec only three things?
Yep , that's why I hinted at the AutoGK gui (http://hosting.picgoo.com/uploads7/autogkgui.jpg), The ultimate streamlined gui :)

another option would be:
say there is tab 1,2,3 related to this that and the other...you could have various "tweak this" "tweak that" "tweak the other" buttons that would take you directly to the corresponding tab..

Just thinking aloud here, discussion makes for good ideas ;)

edit: Oh and I agree with SMD with the size of the gui, whyever should it have to be studied with a binocular? Bigger and flatter is better I think, just because it's a codec doesn't mean it has to fit in a cigarette box ;)
2nd edit(dang): Look at the size of the ac3filter gui (http://hosting.picgoo.com/uploads7/ac3filter.jpg)
What do you think? It looks just perfect.

Leak

30th July 2004, 14:08

Originally posted by niamh
edit: Oh and I agree with SMD with the size of the gui, whyever should it have to be studied with a binocular? Bigger and flatter is better I think, just because it's a codec doesn't mean it has to fit in a cigarette box ;)

The GUI's window needs a 4:3 aspect ratio... :D

np: Luke Vibert - Synthax (YosepH)

niamh

30th July 2004, 14:15

:D

Sorry for putting SMD's name instead of you Leak btw...I will just add that MPC has 3 or 4 pretty colourful logos available :p (personally I couldn't care less if there is a logo or not)

Leak

30th July 2004, 14:55

Originally posted by niamh
Sorry for putting SMD's name instead of you Leak btw...

Hey, no problem - I've done sillier things - like basing the memory allocation for the blur buffer in my BlendBob plugin on the threshold instead of the radius; this works as long as the threshold is bigger than two times the radius plus two, i.e. in most cases, but - d'oh! :(

I will just add that MPC has 3 or 4 pretty colourful logos available :p (personally I couldn't care less if there is a logo or not)

Yeah, but you can also choose to use no logo, which is the first thing I do - second is to set the "Exit" key to ESC, as it's handy to be able to totally exit from fullscreen by hitting ESC twice...

But this is getting a wee bit offtopic now... :)

np: El-P - Blood (Fantastic Damage)

niamh

31st July 2004, 14:41

Ok a 3 tabs gui for the current version, no fancy wishes or frills, just the way I really would want it :)
I put in absolutely everything, save the 2(useless and big) sliders and the added comments that can just come as pop-ups. :)

tab1:

http://img41.exs.cx/img41/6145/1-guifirsttab.th.jpg (http://img41.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img41&image=1-guifirsttab.jpg)

tab 2:
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/156/2-guifiltersandzonestab.th.jpg (http://img44.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img44&image=2-guifiltersandzonestab.jpg)

tab3:

http://img44.exs.cx/img44/3328/3-guilasttabdebugandstats.th.jpg (http://img44.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img44&image=3-guilasttabdebugandstats.jpg)

thoralf

13th August 2004, 20:39

Hi guys,

from all the ideas and sketches that popped up so far, I would like to see a combination of unmei's gui and teegedecks arrangement of settings. In my opinion, this would be the winning combination of an user-friendly, fool-proof and fully tweakable front end for xvid ...

With kind regards,
Thoralf.

SeeMoreDigital

13th August 2004, 21:03

Originally posted by Leak
The GUI's window needs a 4:3 aspect ratio... :D We live in a 16:9 world now!

And with this in mind I think I might re-design my GUI to 16:9 :D

Cheers

superdump

14th August 2004, 01:05

My vote would go for a combination of Unmei's and the ffvfw/ffdshow style with a layout that is agreeable by the devs, not by users because in my opinion that is how it should be laid out. The features should be in specific places and in specific groups.

thoralf

14th August 2004, 14:08

Originally posted by superdump
... with a layout that is agreeable by the devs, not by users because in my opinion that is how it should be laid out.
I'm not too sure about this ... Devs making GUIs usually leads to overcrowded and not very logical results. Think of early XVid builds or Linux apps. That's not meant to be an offense, but I think we'll get better results if we let the users have a say, too.

SeeMoreDigital

14th August 2004, 14:59

I agree with you thoralf,

In my opinion the GUI must 'primarily' be easy for newbies to understand. And should therefore have the options they've heard of and will use, presented in a simple fashion.

Only after the user has developed an understanding of the basic functions should they be tempted to delve into XviD's higher functions

In my last GUI proposal I put access to 'Zones' in the left hand panel... But in all honesty how many 'newbies' would understand what this can be used for... hence the need for an information panel ;)

Cheers

superdump

14th August 2004, 15:23

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
In my opinion the GUI must 'primarily' be easy for newbies to understand. And should therefore have the options they've heard of and will use, presented in a simple fashion.

Only after the user has developed an understanding of the basic functions should they be tempted to delve into XviD's higher functions

In my last GUI proposal I put access to 'Zones' in the left hand panel... But in all honesty how many 'newbies' would understand what this can be used for... hence the need for an information panel ;)Fair enough making it somewhat more accessible for newbies. I do like the idea of the Information tab detailing some of the features. However I think having a front page such as unmei's would be sufficient to cover newbieism.

Beyond that the advanced settings should be arranged in the groups defined by the standards and the devs. The features should not be put wherever is "convenient" because certain features belong in certain groups. That's why I asked the devs about the arrangement of features in the GUI design I did ages ago. My point being that if they want access to the advanced options then they should take the time to read up a little about them so they do understand what each does rather than blindly having access to them just because they're arranged in a newbie friendly manner. For newbies a slider or profile setting such as those suggested by Teegedeck and Unmei are perfectly sufficient.