PgcEdit v0.3.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by r0lZ
PgcEdit 0.3.3 released

Main changes: functions to inspect (read-only) the menu buttons commands and layout. The 'Jump to Target' function works with buttons commands, too.
Note: this function uses an external executable, and is therefore currently available for Windows only.

@r0lZ
Congrats, this is a great addition. http://www.dvdshrink.info/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif
We have now reached MenuEdit level, wont be long till DVDRemake level, right? :D Just kidding :), for all I knew, you might have jumped thru hoops to give us this feature because I remembered the tool you used has difficulty parsing VOB files :(.

With that said, hope you wont mind some requests :p. Currently, the Show Menu Button is auckward to get to, can it be added to the Button row at least?. And we would want to preview quickly which menu has buttons, so can button scripts be extracted and added to a new integrated section **** button commands: in the Command listing pane?. And, the Button view screen is rather big covering much of the PGCedit screen; it would be great if can be made smaller or integrated into PGCedit. That would be sweet :D

Finally, now that you can parse VOB files, so maybe PGC Preview is in the future? Hope, hope, hope :D

Sorry if I am asking too much, just food for thoughts. Thank you for providing many of us with a good tool and FREE too! http://www.dvdshrink.info/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif

[r0lZ]

you might have jumped thru hoops to give us this feature because I remembered the tool you used has difficulty parsing VOB filesThis is why I use an external executable (based on libdvdread for Linux, and written in C) to do the job.

Currently, the Show Menu Button is auckward to get to, can it be added to the Button row at least?It's possible. However, I think the buttons pane should be limitted to editing commands. Perhaps in a future toolbar...?

And we would want to preview quickly which menu has buttons, so can button scripts be extracted and added to a new integrated section **** button commands: in the Command listing pane?No, the button commands are read-only, ant therefore can't be placed in the editor window. Sorry. But I can add a special marker in the PGC selector pane to show that there are buttons in the PGC...

And, the Button view screen is rather big covering much of the PGCedit screen; it would be great if can be made smaller or integrated into PGCedit.Difficult. There must be enough room for all the stuff, including a full command disassembly... I'll try some solution...

Finally, now that you can parse VOB files, so maybe PGC Preview is in the future?Not in the immediate future. I need to adapt the exe for Unix and Mac users, then finish some other new functions I am working on... and take some hollidays!

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by r0lZ
It's possible. However, I think the buttons pane should be limitted to editing commands. Perhaps in a future toolbar...?
I forgot about the TearOff menu, it should be good for this :)


But I can add a special marker in the PGC selector pane to show that there are buttons in the PGC...
That would be sweet, thanks! :D

[sweetness]

@r0lZ
for your toolbar what size icons are you looking for? and for what functions? last, what would you want it to look like? ms word or photoshop? i'll see if i can put something together(between webdsign and backups) for you, but i'm not the best.

[r0lZ]

@sweetness
The best is 32x32, 256 colors Windows .ICO files.

For the look, It's up to you!

Waht functions? Good question. I suggest: File/Open DVD, Save DVD, Reopen DVD, New DVD, Create Backup, Restore Backup, Open Scratchbook, Save Scratchbook, Check DVD Size, Explore DVD Folder, Quit
Utilities/Title Play Map Table, Domain Stream Attributes, Region Code, Show Menu Buttons, New PGC, Set Provider ID, Set DVD-TEXT General Name
Info/Find Unused GPRMs
Macros/Kill PGC Playback, Enable All Operations
View/Tcl Calculator/Converter
and maybe one generic icon for the user's Tools

Of course, if this is too much work, I will be happy with some of them. I'm sure that, if a toolbar exists in the future, there will be other guys interested in creating icons. All I need is something to start with.

Thank you verry much for helping me :)

[r0lZ]

@voo_doo99
And, the Button view screen is rather big covering much of the PGCedit screen; it would be great if can be made smaller or integrated into PGCedit.Difficult. There must be enough room for all the stuff, including a full command disassembly... I'll try some solution...
I have added an Options submenu allowing to choose the size of the Menu Buttons screen: Full Size (even bigger: 1/1 resolution), Normal (as now: 2/3 resolution) and Small (1/2 resolution).
And this window can now be iconified (although for technical reasons, it is not possible to work in the main window before you close the Button window).

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

I tried out PgcEdit v0.3.3's new button menu display feature with My Big Fat Greek Wedding (R1) root menu and got an error message. I decided to e-mail you my findings.

[r0lZ]

@2COOL
I've found the problem. Should be fixed in the next release. Read your mails for more infos...

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ
@2COOL
I've found the problem. Should be fixed in the next release. Read your mails for more infos... Great!

I have another request or bug. Say I have Cells commands existing. Below is an example.

********** cell commands:
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 01] 1 LinkPGN Program 1
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 02] 2 LinkPGN Program 2

I want to keep the existing ones but want to add another Cell Command. Now, if I add one at the end, there's no disruption on navigations as the cells in this PGC still retain their unchanged Cell Command #s to jump to.

********** cell commands:
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 01] 1 LinkPGN Program 1
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 02] 2 LinkPGN Program 2
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 03] 3 LinkPGN Program 3

But if I add my new command anywhere before Command #2, like this...

********** cell commands:
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 03] 1 LinkPGN Program 3
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 01] 2 LinkPGN Program 1
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 02] 3 LinkPGN Program 2

or

********** cell commands:
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 01] 1 LinkPGN Program 1
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 03] 2 LinkPGN Program 3
[20 06 00 00 00 00 00 02] 3 LinkPGN Program 2

...there's going to be navigation errors. During playback, the cells still hold their original cell command jumps but now, they are pointing to a different command.

What i'm requesting is that the original cell commands in the Cell Playback be updated/incremented. Sort like how you did the "goto #s" when you delete/add/change a command.

I hope you understand what I mean. You can add or delete cell commands but PgcEdit should update the Cell Playback area to reflect the edits.

[r0lZ]

OK. Understood.

Note that you may add any new cell command as the last command in the list, and use this command for any cell.
There is no need for the cell commands to be in a specific order (although I understand that it is better to match the cell number with the command number.)

[2COOL]

@r0lZ

Can you put in a Copy to Clipboard feature/button in the following windows?

DVD commands
DVD Menu Buttons command
PGC Commands
Streams

Possibility, a normal right-click pop-up menu for selecting to copy to clipboard. This is to ease on copying and pasting selected commands to a post. I know Ctrl+C works.

Thanks for your consideration.

Also, what is the Tcl Calculator/Converter? It says it's a hex & string converter but I can't get it to work.

[r0lZ]

Done. The next version will have a popup menu in the text viewer window with "Copy" and "Select All" options.

[r0lZ]

Also, what is the Tcl Calculator/Converter? It says it's a hex & string converter but I can't get it to work.
Calculator:
Type in an expression in the top left (big field), for example:
( 7 + 0x10 ) * 3
When you press enter, the bottom field will display the result:
= 69 = 0x45 = "E"
The hexadecimal and ASCII conversion will not be done if the result is not an integer.

You may use also math functions like this:
pow( 2, 5)
Here (http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.4/TclCmd/expr.htm) is a list of all Tcl math functions.

Take care: Tcl is somewhat strange! A division of an integer by an integer will give an integer: 7/2 => 3, but 7/2.0 => 3.5

Converter:
Type an integer in the same field, in decimal (example: 10), hexadecimal (0xA) or octal (012), then press Enter.
To convert a language code to a number, type it in the small field, and press Enter.

Note that it is possible to use hexadecimal numbers directly in all numeric fields of PgcEdit: simply prefix them with "0x".

[2COOL]

Thanks for the education. ;)

[2COOL]

@rolZ

1. A disclaimer that disabling the default audio causes the NEXT existing audio to play. Disabling for example, audio 3 of 4, causes the FIRST existing audio to play. Here's some test documentation on my part. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60444

I haven't test this out with subtitles yet though. :(
___________________________________
2. A tooltip for telling the valid values (seconds) for Cell still time. 0-255 (255= Infinite)
___________________________________
3. How about a simple Instructional dialog for copying and pasting PGC subtitle colors?
___________________________________

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@rolZ

1. A disclaimer that disabling the default audio causes the NEXT existing audio to play. Disabling for example, audio 3 of 4, causes the FIRST existing audio to play. Here's some test documentation on my part. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60444

I haven't test this out with subtitles yet though. :(
___________________________________
2. A tooltip for telling the valid values (seconds) for Cell still time. 0-255 (255= Infinite)
___________________________________
3. How about a simple Instructional dialog for copying and pasting PGC subtitle colors?
___________________________________
[list=1]
What do you want exactly? Should I explain that a disabled audio or subpic will not show up on the player anymore, and will be skipped when the user select the next audio or subpic with the remote?
When you say disabling the default audio causes the NEXT existing audio to play. Disabling for example, audio 3 of 4, causes the FIRST existing audio to play.I'm not sure to understand you. Is it the first or the next audio that plays?
Your guide deal with the streams left over after a DVDShrink, but is now obsolete, no?
OK. Tooltip added.
Do you mean an explanation on how to copy colors from one DVD and paste them in another one? Note that the method is the same to copy/paste commands.
[/list=1]

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ

What do you want exactly? Should I explain that a disabled audio or subpic will not show up on the player anymore, and will be skipped when the user select the next audio or subpic with the remote? I'll try to summarize the guide once more. If PgcEdit disables the first (default audio) by setting it to none, the next audio stream that is not set to none, will play. Say that I had a movie with 2 audios, English as my first and French as my second. Since English is my default, the movie should play English if I didn't select any audio in the language menu. Now, if I set my first audio to none and let the movie play, the French audio will be heard instead because it's not set to none and it's the next audio in order. Even if the user selects English in the language menu, French will play.

Now, if I set French to none and I select French in the language menu, English will play instead. Audio will start from the beginning of stream order and find the first audio not set to none and that will be English of course.

Your guide deal with the streams left over after a DVDShrink, but is now obsolete, no?I really did the guide with IfoEdit before DVD Shrink. In DVD Shrink, the user can choose between two algorithms on editing the IFO when streams were stripped. I clarified more on this matter in this thread (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30508).

Do you mean an explanation on how to copy colors from one DVD and paste them in another one? Note that the method is the same to copy/paste commands. A newbie wouldn't know to open another PgcEdit seesion on another DVD to do a copy on one and a paste all on the other at first glance.

[r0lZ]

OK. I've added some tooltips to clarify things some more.
But of course it's not possible to add a complete explanation on how disabled streams are working in a tooltip!

On the copy/paste: the method is explained in the PgcEdit doc (in english and french). Just added a short tooltip as a remaider.

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit v0.3.4 released.

Changes: version history (http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/pgcedit/HISTORY.txt)

The menu buttons information is now also available for Linux users. Also, there is now a wrapped, standalone version for Linux users.

The homepage (http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/pgcedit/index.html) has changed, too. I have added some links, and there is now a GUI to be notified when the page changes (seems to be really SPAM proof.)

I highly recommand to use this version: it is probably the most bugfree since the first version, thanks to beta tests from many users, specially 2COOL and $$$.

[erdoke]

Wow, it took some time to read through the changes in Version History. And that means something.
Nice job r0lZ, your tool (oops, sorry: our tool ;)) is getting more and more powerful.

It seems that the download link of Win executable is OK, but the zipped version still contains V. 0.3.3 instead of the new 0.3.4.

[2COOL]

@rolZ

Sorry I did not pick up on these before but I have two discrepancies to point out with v0.3.4.

1. I see no difference between these two. :confused: Both do not convert Post commands to Pre Commands. Maybe you should have just 2 options: Kill or don't kill playback.

( ) Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC.

( ) Don't kill playback.

2. When blanking, the user has the default option of moving the original VOB(s), in question, to the backup directory. This is fine as we can restore the VOB(s) back if we wanted do. But if we, for some reason, try to blank the same PGC again, the original in the backup will be overwritten with our new 10 KB blank VOB. We don't really want that to happen and the original VOBs are pretty much gone. Maybe a prompt to tell the user that an original file exists in the backup and overwriting is not possible?

[r0lZ]

It seems that the download link of Win executable is OK, but the zipped version still contains V. 0.3.3 instead of the new 0.3.4.
Oops! Sorry.
Problem fixed now.

[r0lZ]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@rolZ

Sorry I did not pick up on these before but I have two discrepancies to point out with v0.3.4.

1. I see no difference between these two. :confused: Both do not convert Post commands to Pre Commands. Maybe you should have just 2 options: Kill or don't kill playback.

( ) Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC.

( ) Don't kill playback.

2. When blanking, the user has the default option of moving the original VOB(s), in question, to the backup directory. This is fine as we can restore the VOB(s) back if we wanted do. But if we, for some reason, try to blank the same PGC again, the original in the backup will be overwritten with our new 10 KB blank VOB. We don't really want that to happen and the original VOBs are pretty much gone. Maybe a prompt to tell the user that an original file exists in the backup and overwriting is not possible?

1. When blanking, there are 3 options:

Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC.
This will kill playback on all PGCs except thoses with cell commands.
Kill playback unconditionally
This will kill playback on all PGCs including thoses with cell commands.
Don't kill playback.
Never kill playback.

Of course, the option 1 is really useful only when there are several PGCs in the domain, and some of them with cell commands.

2. You're true. This is a little bug (or omission). But I think there are no good reasons to blank the same domain several times (except for beta tests, as you probably did).
If you really wants to blank it more than once, then you should select the 'delete original VOB file' option.
I will however add an overwrite confirmation dialog. But keep in mind that blanking twice with one of the kill playback option enabled will also kill playback twice. Although this is not harmful, this is not needed. But inspecting the commands to see if the blanking is already done is not so easy...
[EDIT:] Done. There is now a popup warning. However, if you cancel the backup, the VOB will be deleted without further prompting.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by r0lZ
1. When blanking, there are 3 options:

Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC.
This will kill playback on all PGCs except thoses with cell commands.
Kill playback unconditionally
This will kill playback on all PGCs including thoses with cell commands.
Don't kill playback.
Never kill playback.

Of course, the option 1 is really useful only when there are several PGCs in the domain, and some of them with cell commands. OK, It's coming back to me again. This would be a classic case for a newbie not actually knowing the actions of the options. Perhaps, a tooltip for future version?

Or maybe the options need to be rewritten for clarifications. Just like you really wanted to say.

( ) Kill playback on all PGCs except those with cell commands
( ) Kill playback on all PGCs including those with cell commands
( ) Don't kill playback

[jsoto]

I know this thread is about pgcEdit, but because 2COOL and r0lZ
are discussing about these questions (at least part of them) I’m using this thread (although my intention is to apply these procedures in VobBlanker)

Here are my questions/doubts

1.- Deleting playback (IFOEdit ): It is illegal in Titles domain, isn’t it?. AFAIK, you cannot have an empty PGC in Titles domain. (I’m assuming pgcEdit’s Kill Playback is the same operation than IFOEdit’s delete playback)

2.-Deleting playback when cell commands are present is not safe. So, some advice should be issued to the user in this case

3.- Blanking a PGC when cell commands are present is safe, except in the case of changing postcommands into precommands. In this case, the cell commands probably will never been executed.

Could anyone confirm me these points?

Thanks in advance.

jsoto

[r0lZ]

1.- Deleting playback (IFOEdit ): It is illegal in Titles domain, isn’t it?. AFAIK, you cannot have an empty PGC in Titles domain. (I’m assuming pgcEdit’s Kill Playback is the same operation than IFOEdit’s delete playback)Yes, a dummy PGC is illegal in the Title domain, although it doesn't hurt if it is never played.
No, the Kill Playback in PgcEdit do not use the IfoEdit's method. Instead, the post commands are appended to the pre commands. The BREAK and GOTO commands are handled. However, for menu PGCs only, the IfoEdit method may be used also to completely remove the VOB file.

2.-Deleting playback when cell commands are present is not safe. So, some advice should be issued to the user in this caseIf you kill playback of a PGC with cell commands, you will not leave a chance for the cell commands to be executed.

3.- Blanking a PGC when cell commands are present is safe, except in the case of changing postcommands into precommands. In this case, the cell commands probably will never been executed.Right.

Note that in most case, the cell commands are either returning to the menu (for multi-episodes DVDs), or playing some add-on material (normally not needed if you blank out the main title). So, it may be useful to kill playback also. Hence the 3 options in PgcEdit.

[2COOL]

@jsoto

Deleting Playback and Kill Playback are not the same. rolZ explained to you on PgcEdit's Kill Playback algorithm. How IfoEdit's Delete Playback works is that it resets the PGC's Playback Time (BCD) to 00:00:00.00 and also sets the PGC's Number of Programs and Cells to 0. There are no changes in the PGC Command Table in this process. Both PgcEdit and IfoEdit only do changes to the IFO so no changes in the VOBs. ;)

[2COOL]

@rolZ

Sometimes I think that arranging the PGC Selection list and the Command Table horizontally instead of vertically would be more appealing. You could have the PGC Selection on top taking up 1/3 of the view. I'm sure you thought about this before.

[2COOL]

You sure take a long time writing your reply, jsoto. ;P

[jsoto]

@2COOL & r0lZ
Thanks for your replies, guys.
If I can bother you a little more, I'd like to comfirm some additional points.
No, the Kill Playback in PgcEdit do not use the IfoEdit's method. Instead, the post commands are appended to the pre commands. The BREAK and GOTO commands are handled. However, for menu PGCs only, the IfoEdit method may be used also to completely remove the VOB file. I think I've understood the difference between both methods. But, is there a, let's say, "functional" difference?. With Kill playback all commands will be executed as precommands, and with delete playback the commands will be executed as pre or post ones, but because there is no PGC playback, AFAIK the result should be the same. In both cases cell commands are probably "lost". So, the question is:
Do I need to change post into pre commands if using IFOEdit's delete playback method?. I believe not.

Both PgcEdit and IfoEdit only do changes to the IFO so no changes in the VOBs. That is VobBlanker bussiness :) (In fact I've already have a beta version with menu support)

What I'm going to do is:
- VobBlanker will support IFOEdit's deleting playback method in menus domain (but deleting also the required cells in the menu VOB :) )
- Blanking will also be supported in menu domain.
- Ask the user to confirm deleting playback in the case of cell commands exist.
- Split the current "Change post into precommands" check (this apply to menu and title blanking procedures) in two different checks. Let's say "Safely change post into precommands" (This check will not change post into pre if cell commands exist) and "Always change post into precommands".

Please give me your comments. I'll appreciate them.

jsoto

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jsoto
Do I need to change post into pre commands if using IFOEdit's delete playback method?. I believe not.Delete playback, to me, works best if the PGC's video content doesn't have any buttons. e.g. FBI warnings. I tried to DP all menus with buttons in a VTS Language Unit and got errors during play. I DP'd a Title and that just turned into a dummy PGC and you know this is illegal. It's at this point that I would convert Post to Pre Commands for bypassing the Titles.

What I'm going to do is:
- VobBlanker will support IFOEdit's deleting playback method in menus domain (but deleting also the required cells in the menu VOB :) )Again, this would work if the menu doesn't have buttons.

Blanking will also be supported in menu domain.Again with the buttons issue.

Ask the user to confirm deleting playback in the case of cell commands exist.confirmations are always good to have.

- Split the current "Change post into precommands" check (this apply to menu and title blanking procedures) in two different checks. Let's say "Safely change post into precommands" (This check will not change post into pre if cell commands exist) and "Always change post into precommands".As a newbie, it would be confusing and intimidating on the "Safely" and "Always" words without justification. Personally, I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion. This is in the case that I would link to a program in my pre commands and then end up in my Post Commands after play.

[jsoto]

@2COOL
Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?

I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion I've to confess I'm not familiar with pgcEdit, mainly because my knowledge in the virtual machine (commads and registers) is very limited, but I'll look into it.

jsoto

[r0lZ]

- Split the current "Change post into precommands" check (this apply to menu and title blanking procedures) in two different checks. Let's say "Safely change post into precommands" (This check will not change post into pre if cell commands exist) and "Always change post into precommands"."Safely change post into precommands" is what is called in PgcEdit "Kill playback if there are no cell commands in the PGC" and "Always change post into precommands" is called "Kill playback unconditionally". The last option, "Don't kill playback" let the replaced cell play (PgcEdit is able to replace the whole VOB with a blank cell or an imported cell to blank all PGCs in the domain, like TitleSetBlanker).

"Completely remove the menu VOB file" will remove all references to the menu VOB in the IFO, changing all menu PGCs to dummies. The VMGM_C_ADT and VMGM_VOBU_ADMAP or VTSM_C_ADT and VTSM_VOBU_ADMAP tables are totally removed.

[r0lZ]

Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?Unfortunately no, although it is possible to guess there are buttons by analysing the VM commands.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by jsoto
Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs or you need to explore the Navpacks in the VOBs?You can in the NAV packs. Use VOBEdit on a menu VOB and click on [X]Buttons at the bottom. Click on a Navpack and scroll down to [009e]number of buttons. I know you are not a newbie at parsing the VOBs since you do it in VIDChanger.

[2COOL]

@rolZ

Originally posted by r0lZ
Unfortunately no, although it is possible to guess there are buttons by analysing the VM commands. :eek: I'm surprised that you made this comment as you have menu button previewing in PgcEdit.

[r0lZ]

I'm surprised that you made this comment as you have menu button previewing in PgcEdit.Yes, but the buttons infos are extracted from the VOB, with the external program button_dump.exe (sources availables on my homepage).
The question was Is there any way to know if there are buttons present, just exploring the IFOs...The answer is resolutely: NO!

[r0lZ]

Bug in PgcEdit 0.3.4 source archive

A file was missing in PgcEdit v0.3.4 source archives (pgcedit_source.zip and PgcEdit_source_0.3.4.zip).
This omission may prevent to open PgcEdit.
A new, fixed source archive is available on my homepage (http://home.tiscali.be/debie.roland/pgcedit/index.html).

[r0lZ]

I forgot to say Thanks to the beta testers 2COOL, $$$, Damien and Marek, to Sweetness who did the toolbar icons, to Tobi for his german guide... and to everybody for the enthousiasm and encouragements.

[jorel]

Originally posted by jorel
thanks for the new version r0lZ. :)
can you do a guide with pictures(like the japanese guide)for "simple mortals" ? it's hard for "us"(simple mortals) to start. :o

hy r0lZ!
:)

PgcEdit is growing faster but i still don't know how to use for more that i read details in this thread.
i still can't read in japanese and german :p and the 2COOL's (Third party guide) is so advanced for newbys like me!

you really don't will build a simple english guide ? :(

[2COOL]

@jorel

Originally posted by jorel
the 2COOL's (Third party guide) is so advanced for newbys like me!

I wrote only one PgcEdit guide so far, How to Completely Blank Out a Titleset (VTS) Using PgcEdit (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81112), and thought it was very comprehensible at a newbie level. Can you tell me which step(s) you are having problems with?

[jorel]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@jorel
I wrote only one PgcEdit guide so far, How to Completely Blank Out a Titleset (VTS) Using PgcEdit (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81112), and thought it was very comprehensible at a newbie level. Can you tell me which step(s) you are having problems with?

i know that you wrote only one PgcEdit guide...
then, i know less than newbys my friend! :o
i don't know how to start using powerfull tools like that without a simple guide(with shots if possible), showing how to start.
2 years ago, i had problems starting to use dvd2svcd(powerfull and great)and without the guides and the helpers i never will learn how to use it and get cool results in my encodes!
this is the point: how to start with PgcEdit...first steps(or something like this)for dumbs(with poor english).

you know: newby is hard to help but help dumb is "impossible"! :p

thanks for your kindness and friendship 2COOL!
:)

[r0lZ]

It's difficult to write a guide to introduce PgcEdit. The knowledge required to use PgcEdit (or other low levels tools like IfoEdit, VOBEdit, or the Pro options of DVDRemake Pro) is the DVD structure, and how to program with the VM commands. A knowledge of any programming language is also a good starting point, although not really necessary.

Have a look at the DVD-Replica web site (http://dvd-replica.com/DVD/), and try to understand how pieces are put together in a DVD, and learn about the most used VM commands. Then, read some guides (2COOL's guides using IfoEdit are useful, too). The most important is to try to understand what you are doing when you follow a guide. You will soon become an expert!

As I said elsewhere, I do not have much time to write guides, and I prefer to add some newbies-friendly macros in PgcEdit. And you know my english is not good enough. Maybe I'll try to write an introduction to PgcEdit, but don't expect this before all the functionnalities I want to see in PgcEdit are implemented, and that is still a verry big work.

I'm sure there will be other PgcEdit guides soon here...

[EDIT:] Have a look at this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=543933#post543933). Although it is not really a guide, I tried to explain how to add a Title menu to a DVDShrink reauthored 4 episodes DVD, while keeping the ability to skip to the next episode with the Title button. Even if you don't need this, try to do it as an exercise.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by 2COOL

As a newbie, it would be confusing and intimidating on the "Safely" and "Always" words without justification.


@jsoto
Both options appear safe, but for both to show up would be confusing. How about listing just one [like 1.4.0.1] with a popup warning, when applicable, saying sth like: "Existing cell commands will not execute. Do you want to proceed?"

Originally posted by 2COOL

Personally, I like the way that PgcEdit retains the original Post Commands during conversion. This is in the case that I would link to a program in my pre commands and then end up in my Post Commands after play.

@2COOL
Can you clarify that point?. Say if I linked my PGC_1 precommand to another PGC_2, is the sequence of executions as follows:
1. PGC_1 Pre
2. PGC_2 Pre
3. PGC_2 Post
4. PGC_1 Post
Until now, I thought PGC_1 Post would not execute after a linking.

@r0lZ
What is the benefit of converting Post to Pre with your spcecial way?. In my IFOedit hacking time, I knew adding commands to PGC Table requires update of address pointers in all kind of places including mock strippings et al. I must confess I never dared try PGCedit "Kill Playback" feature for fear of losing playability. PGCedit really possesses many powerful [and thus complex] features even for me. To really reach a larger user group, you may want to provide a Lite/Advanced interface option a la DvdRemake.

Thanks everyone!

[2COOL]

@voo_doo99

Originally posted by voo_doo99
Can you clarify that point?. Say if I linked my PGC_1 precommand to another PGC_2, is the sequence of executions as follows:
1. PGC_1 Pre
2. PGC_2 Pre
3. PGC_2 Post
4. PGC_1 Post
Until now, I thought PGC_1 Post would not execute after a linking. That's not what I had in mind but I will clarify. The way I did it in my guide (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50245), the Number of Pre and Post commands were edited. This resulted in having no Post commands. Now, here's a PGC Command table I'll use for an example. When I mentioned about linking to programs, I was referring to the LinkPGC command.

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00] 1 Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6)
[00 A2 00 00 00 01 00 00] 2 if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Break }
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02] 3 if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03] 4 if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04] 5 if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05] 6 if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06] 7 if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 }
********** post commands:
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00] 1 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D] 1 LinkTailPGC
Now, if I used my manual editing Title bypassing guide, I would've gotten this afterwards.

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00] 1 Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6)
[00 A2 00 00 00 01 00 00] 2 if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Break }
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02] 3 if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03] 4 if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04] 5 if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05] 6 if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06] 7 if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 }
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00] 8 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1
********** post commands:
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D] 1 LinkTailPGC
Here's the scenario. Pre Command 3 will be true and Program 2 will play. But, Program 2 has a cell command of 1. So at the end of Program 2 play, cell command #1 will execute and we will be jumping to the Post commands.

But now, we don't have any Post commands with Jump/Link/Call commands available! Post command #1 is now a Pre Command. So, what happens now? DVD stoppage, due to break in navigations. :( You'll also get errors if Pre command #2 is true without an assigned cell command since there is no Post commands.

That's why when PgcEdit does the conversion (kill playback), it leaves the original Post commands alone, makes a copy, and converts it to Pre commands. Also, a leading NOP command is added as shown below. Now after Program 2 plays, it will make its way to VMGM PGC 10. :)

********** pre commands:
[61 00 00 00 00 06 00 00] 1 Set gprm(0) =(mov) gprm(6)
[00 A1 00 00 00 01 00 08] 2 if ( gprm(0) == 1 ".." ) then { Goto line 8 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 02 00 02] 3 if ( gprm(0) == 2 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 2 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 03 00 03] 4 if ( gprm(0) == 3 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 3 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 04 00 04] 5 if ( gprm(0) == 4 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 4 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 05 00 05] 6 if ( gprm(0) == 5 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 5 }
[20 A6 00 00 00 06 00 06] 7 if ( gprm(0) == 6 ".." ) then { LinkPGN Program 6 }
[00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00] 8 NOP
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00] 9 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1 //copy
********** post commands:
[30 08 00 0A 01 C0 00 00] 1 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:
[20 01 00 00 00 00 00 0D] 1 LinkTailPGC
Does this make any sense to you now?

@rolZ

With what I've shown above. Your disclaimer...

Warning: there are cell commands in this PGC!
The cell commands will not be executed anymore.

...doesn't apply. The cell commands will still execute. With that said, shouldn't we now have two kill playback options?

( ) Kill playback.
( ) Don't kill playback.

What do you think?

[jsoto]

Does this make any sense to you now? Absolutely. You've shown a clear scenario.

But there are others (more simple or the same if precommand 2 is true) were the cell commands will not be executed anymore, so the disclaimer still apply...

@rolZ
What do you do if reach the limit of 128 commands?

jsoto

[r0lZ]

@voo_doo99
Benefit of converting Post to Pre with my spcecial way: As brilliantly explained by 2COOL, it is safer to leave the post commands in place. Also, the NOP command that is added become the target of all BREAK pre commands (changed to GOTOs) as you can see in the 2COOL example. Therefore, if you want to undo the kill playback, you have to delete all copied commands, after but not including the NOP. Easy.

I knew adding commands to PGC Table requires update of address pointers in all kind of places including mock strippings et al.The addresses are updated by PgcEdit when you save the DVD. As you may know, if you add many commands, the number of sectors needed for the table may increase, but IfoEdit doesn't take care about that problen, and you end up with a totally bugged IFO. PgcEdit rebuilds totally the IFO by concatenating all tables together, then it updates the table pointers and the VTS sectors.
IMHO, changing the number of commands never require a mock strip: the VOB file is not changed.

To really reach a larger user group, you may want to provide a Lite/Advanced interface option a la DvdRemake.Yes, I am aware of that problem. But, as explained elsewhere, my first intention was to provide an easy way to edit the IFO's VM commands, not more. So, I writed PgcEdit in Tcl/Tk, which is a language really not suitable for sophisticated previews or complex VOB parsing. So, consider PgcEdit as a low-level software, for experienced users (something like an assembler), intended to supplement IfoEdit, which is far more complex. However, I will probably add some high level functions for novice users (in the Macros menu).
A Lite/Advanced option may be the way to go...


@2COOL
You're true. A cell commands may be played in some cases.
With that said, shouldn't we now have two kill playback options?Please note that the macro "Kill Playback" always kill it, even if there are cell commands.
The triple option is used only when killing playback as part of the "Blank Out all PGCs in Domain" function. In this situation, you may have 3 scenarios: Always kill playback, Never kill playback, or kill playback whenever it is always safe (PGCs w/o cell cmds), and don't kill playback when it is not always safe (PGCs with cell cmds). This last option is useful if there are some PGCs with and other without cell cmds. Obviously, this option is not useful if there is only one PGC, or if there are cell cmds in all PGCs, or if there are no cell cmds in all PGCs. Also, this option is the default, because it is always safe to use it.


@jsoto
What do you do if reach the limit of 128 commands?Well, I don't test this situation from within the macro (although it is not possible to manually Add or Paste commands when the limit is reached). Of course, this may be a problem, but honestly I have never encountered a PGC with so much commands... Maybe I have to add the check, and in that case delete the post commands.

[voo_doo99]

Originally posted by 2COOL
@voo_doo99
Does this make any sense to you now?

@2COOL
Clear as a bell, thank you. :):) Leave it to you to figure out all the complex scenarios. :D There is good reason why I do post-stripping/blanking preview with WinDVD to catch the "gotchas". :p

@r0lZ
Thank you for the details on "Kill Playback", I need to use it more :). And I love your Command Editor/Builder, it's the best; one can really do some fancy navigation with it. :D

Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others. The menu "0:00" does not offer much unless it can go down to the sub-second, I think putting VobID here would help IFOedit stripping. And speaking of IFOedit+PgcEdit, it will help if the listing terms are more similar to each other, say: "VTSM_01_LU_1(en) _1 (ID:1) Root", might even save some spaces :p . Anyhow, its my 2 cents, please dont mind. Thanks. :)

[r0lZ]

Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others.You're the first asking to remove informations in the PGC Selector. I added more and more infos here because users wanted them. What do I have to do now? A poll? ;)
Please note that there are VOB and Cell IDs for all cells of the PGC. Listing them all is therefore not possible. And double-clicking on the PGC entry to see them all is not really difficult.
However, I agree that the lisibility of the PGC Selector is not perfect. Maybe I'll try to implement your 'underscore' idea.

Thanks for your apprecaition on the Command Editor :)

[2COOL]

Originally posted by voo_doo99
@2COOL
Clear as a bell, thank you. :):) Leave it to you to figure out all the complex scenarios. :D No problemo! Just play your demo! :p


Alas, the PGC Selector is getting crowded, may I suggest that some detail like "dummy" to be left out for better reading, there seems to be enough details to differentiate them from the others. Well actually, it was my suggestion to have some indicator that the PGC, in question, was a dummy PGC. People would get confused seeing a PGC with 0b (zero buttons) and not knowing that video content exists. e.g. FBI warnings. A dummy PGC doesn't have video content but its PGC Command table is utilized for better navigations. I think I suggested that the indicator "dummy" be in the parsing dumps but rolZ decided to also put it in the PGC selection list anyway. No problems with me! ;) There are somethings I can lived with.