Encoding video <100kBit/s

[cypher_soundz]

K guys, ive been trying out the lowest possible (viewable) bitrate to encode at. (inspired by the ogg vorbis audio tread on hydrogen audio)
My 97k/s encode looks good (in respect) and im pretty pleased with it, This compared to Realvideo10 which looks worse at double the bitrate. Has anyone got any ideas/ methods to make the encodes look less blocky/more viewable.
settings are below:
XviD 1.0.1
AQ
VHQ-4
ME -Ultra
Qpel
matrix : h263
Trelis
croma


Would boosting the B frames from the defaul values give better compression?
I was thinking of giving IIP a try maybe.

My audio takes up just under 2mb for a 25min episode so thats about as small as can be.

avs:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\Convolution3d.dll")

mpeg2source("D:\dvd rips\reddwarf.d2v")
crop(12,0,702,572)
BicubicResize(320,240,0.333,0.333)
Undot()
Convolution3d("movielq")


Regards
cyph

[Tommy Carrot]

You should try an h.264 codec (x264 or mpegable) with enabled in-loop filter. They are much better at those ridiculously low bitrates, the artifacts are much less bothering, the image doesn't fall apart, etc.

Edit: Btw, qpel does more harm than good at low bitrates, it amplifies the blocking and the mosquito noise quite badly.

[cypher_soundz]

thanks for the reply,
i'm trying JVT encoder now. Looks pretty good, the 10k/s file their web site is amazing!

Regards
cyph


Sorry didn't notice your recomendations...trying mpegable too :p

[EthanoliX]

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
...Edit: Btw, qpel does more harm than good at low bitrates, it amplifies the blocking and the mosquito noise quite badly.

But doesn't it improve compressibility especially at low resolutions as well?

[Tommy Carrot]

The main advantage of qpel is not even the compressibility gain, but increased sharpness and details, but this comes at the cost of some artifacts. At low bitrates, the artifacts overweight the benefits, so i wouldn't recommend to use it in that case.

[Selur]

hmm,.. I did try to encode at such low bitrates some time ago and for me qpel helped at such low datarates with the compression.
(but this could be the fault of my testing clips,.. constant quant with qpel was small than constant quant without qpel)

Cu Selur

[Sharktooth]

Originally posted by cypher_soundz
thanks for the reply,
i'm trying JVT encoder now. Looks pretty good, the 10k/s file their web site is amazing!

Regards
cyph


Sorry didn't notice your recomendations...trying mpegable too :p

Try on2's VP6 too...

[cypher_soundz]

I've tried all except vp6 (trying it out now) Mpegable/x264 didn't work for me, mpegable had a black picture and sometimes a rainbow effect :sly: and x264 can't be decoded by my 264 decoder (mpegable Or JVT) And the options for x264/mpegable only allow 1pass?
At the mooment i have only had success with JVT :confused: but this doesn't have the loopback option or any other option really.
But i guess they are all in development still.
Regards
cyph

[Tommy Carrot]

The recommended way to decode H.264 videos (in AVI or similar containers) is using the latest FFDshow, you just need to enable the h.264 decoding in the codecs dialog.

[cypher_soundz]

I can't seem to get the latest ffdshow to playback my h.264 encodes , ive also noticed that the VP6 decoder adds allot of grain to the picture?
Regards
cyph

[bond]

you could also try gmc and a low bitrate custom quant matrix, like hvs_good