SB & bitrate calculation

[Séamus]

So, this is gonna be my first SB title, Alien Disc1 with the theatrical and director's cut version
I'm using DIF4U 1.4.7.0 BatchCCE & Scenarist 2.7

PGC's look like this:

PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [01:51:50.23 / 25 fps] (Programs: 32) (Cells: 106) (uses VOB-IDs: 2,3,4,6,7,8,10,11,12,14,15,16,18,19,20,22,23,24,26,27,28,30,31,32,34,35,36,38,39,40,42,43,44,46,47,48,49,51,52,53,55,56,57,59,60,61,63,64,65,67,68,69,71,72,73,75)

PGC_2 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 2] [01:51:05.06 / 25 fps] (Programs: 40) (Cells: 111) (uses VOB-IDs: 2,3,5,6,7,9,10,11,13,14,15,17,18,19,21,22,23,25,26,27,29,30,31,33,34,35,37,38,39,41,42,43,45,46,47,48,50,51,52,54,55,56,58,59,60,62,63,64,66,67,68,70,71,72,74,75)

So my question is, if I select both PGC's and flag them as VOBId demux I will get a bitrate calculation for the 2 complete PGC's if I'm not mistaken.
So after reauthoring I will end up with a smaller disc because of the duplicate VobID's. So how can I calculate a bitrate that will give me a full sized DVD5 ?

Thx.

[arlsair]

No, bitrate calculation will be accurate.
You demux by VobID, so you have no duplicated video streams. Only at the reauthoring step the VobID will be reused.

[jpapin]

I'm doing the same title.You have just to use (manually) the simple bitrate calculator of DoItFast4U.For the maximum bitrate you have to do this simple calculation: 9800 - (the sum of the bitrate of each audio that you demux).
I hope this help you.

Sorry for my bad english.

[D3s7]

that title needs to be done via VOBID as arlsir pointed out. The bitrate calcs done by Doitfast4u are accruate though..

Scenaid also can reauthor this title (i know cause I just did it) - you will have to adjust a few things (couple non-seamless to seamless) but I didn't notice any pauses that bad from loosing the Ilvu's

[Séamus]

Yes, bitrate calculations by DIF4U are OK.
Scenaid did a good job with the script, however in Scenarist I'm unable to change the few NSM cells to SM cells.
I can see some glitches in the end result. This is when playing with PowerDVD.

Another thing...I used IFOUpdate0.78 in standard mode (with first 5 options selected). Not sure if this is correct ?
When doing the "Get VTS Sectors" with IFOEdit0.96, it complains with
"There's something wrong! The file position does not match for table: ID_VTS_VOBU_ADMAP" & "The IFO Endsector does not match the file size."

Any hints would again be appreciated :sly:

[D3s7]

try using batchifoupdate instead of ifoupdate.. it resolves these kinds of issues (with ifoupdate/ifoedit)

[jpapin]

Remember that you can change cells from NSM to SM only if the tracks are contiguos (see and eventually make change in setting/sort tracks option in Scenarist).
I have already tryied that but I can't solve problem of glitches.
I explain why:
I found that the delay of the audio is the reason of this glitches.Indeed to eliminate the delay, the audio has been cut off at the beginning. As result of this the audio is shortest than video; so I have two options:
1) Make the cells not seamless (because of the different lenght between audio and video)
2)Correct the length and make the cells seamless.
In the first case even the video is automatically cut off to have the same lenght of the audio (so I haven't a continuous play; in the second to correct the length of audio,some frames of silence are appended at the end of the audio file (it produce a discontinuity in the audio).
At the end of a week of attempts I solved that it's possible to recreate a decent film with seamless branching only if the delay of audio is low...obviously I'm awaiting to be confuted.

The reason of "There's something wrong! The file position does not match for table: ID_VTS_VOBU_ADMAP" & "The IFO Endsector does not match the file size." is the presence of menu vob file (VTS_xx_0.vob) that is length 0 byte. For my short experience you can ignore this error or delete the menu file.

Sorry for my bad english.

[D3s7]

jpapin : that's not always true... and to fix the audio issue enable the "correct for delay" in DoItFast4u then you can enble the "fix audiO" options in ScenAid (soon to be renamed.. the options not scenaid)

those will adjust so the audio is correct length

[Séamus]

* BatchIFOUpdate fixed the ifoedit errors I experienced

* So in order to fix the glitches I've now enabled the fix delay options in Scenaid (0.9.0.25)

I think I'll be starting the project all over again, this time doing Scenaid before BatchCCE (and use the scenaid-cce.txt file), as I've read somewhere it yields better results. Correct me if I'm wrong

[jpapin]

D3s7:
I would know when it's not true and what it' not always true...could you make me an example?
As I have already said to fix the audio length issue, every software that I have tryed (even ScenAid) only append some frame of silence at the end of the file...with the result of a not cotinuous play. I mean the video is now ok(no glitches),but the audio isn't.
Obviously no software can recreate frame that are previously delete...don't you think so?
The only solution I have found is to make the first title by PGC (so at least the first title is ok) and for the second I have added the different vobid,recreating the structure in scenarist using the incomplete structure of title 2 that ScenAid created for me.
For the second title I still have glitches, and I have problem when I try to FWD or REV (not in standard play) between the cells of the edited vobid.
Have you a better solution?

Sorry for my bad english.

[D3s7]

in Scenarist you can set 2 cells as SM instead of NSM but ONLY if they are currently used once so far in the scenario (manually authoring). As soon as you create the second use, the option goes away. Poor design IMO.

With a script, it's a crapshot... sometimes it lets you, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't, ususally you can go into the script and there's a setting for Seamless/Nonseamless for the second cell in the set. Changing it to "Seamless" normally works.

If I am reading your audio problem correctly, sounds like the audio is late? the ac3delay corrector should take care of that but cutting off XXX frames at the START of the audio track. Is there a delay correction in the file name (probably -32ms or something) - if it shows 0ms or nothing, I'd report that to Eyes - the only restriction for a seameless connection as far as audio/video is that the audio is 6 frames or less difference (smaller) then video.. it can be much much larger but that's pointless

Séamus : yes it does yield more accurate results but I'm not sure that will correct the problem your having but it can't hurt to try

[jpapin]

It's exactly what I mean...the audio has a delay of about 150-200 ms, so ac3 delay corrector delete 150-200ms at the start of the audio file. In such situation I cannot use SM;if I want I had to use the option in Scenaid to repair the length,but so I had 150-200ms of silence at the end of each VOBID.
I noticed also that if I use a different an audio shorter than video the video (when multiplexing in Scenarist 3.0) is cut to have the same length of audio (so I have glitches).
Have I been much clear now?

Sorry for my bad english.

[D3s7]

Yes....

what ScenAid does is pad the end with Silence to make the asset the same length which is caused by ac3delaycorrecto chopping frames at the start to correct for the delay... however this shouldn't be noticable.. .i've never seen more then about 100-200ms (not even .5seconds) worth of correction.

[jpapin]

In my case it's noticable...you can hear the music (or background noise) or worse the words stop for a time (f.e. the words between the change of vobid is truncated).
It's not acceptable,don't you think so?
Have you other idea (better than mine:title 1 ok and title 2 with glitches and with no seach ability other than chapter selection)

Sorry for my bad english.

[Séamus]

So for those of us who've done this title and have a nice "no-glitch" backup, how would you do it? Because I'm still a bit puzzled by this whole SB thing.

In my backup,whenever a NSM connection comes up,it looks like little pieces of video/audio are cut out, a couple of frames are missing it seems, definitely a glitch, looks much like jpapin his problem
Has it something to do with changing NSM to SM in the script and then re-importing ?

so far I did:
DIF4U (with delay correction) -> ScenAid (with fix audio) -> BatchCCE (with ScenaidCCE.txt) -> Scenarist -> BatchIFOUpdate

[Séamus]

I think I can almost certainly say now that the glitches are the result of a few frames that are missing at the end of VOBid's, I also noticed some duplicated audio frames at the end of a vobid and the start of the next vobid

[jpapin]

I agree...I think that the vobid demux is not the better way to make a dvd when the audio streams have a delay too long.

[D3s7]

The pauses you guys are referring to has nothing to do w/ the audio.. that's the effect of not being able to do a true seamless branching movie....

you basically have to live with them for right now....

for more info I'd check out some of the seamless branching guides and check out the "Insomnia Notes" guide that Trilight did.. that will explain a lot

[Séamus]

I know it's been discussed here on many occasions, but is there PC software that IS able to do true SB ? Does it exist ? The original had to be made with some authoring tool !

If not I'll wait 'till DL media is available, I'd buy me the Sony DRU700 drive and Nero6 might be able to do the original image (I hope)

I assume the SB will be retained when burning the original image.

[Azzy]

Hi there! I was just wandering if any of you guys eventually came up with a solution to the 'glitch' problem. I am also doing Alien Quadrilogy and everything seems to be fine save for the apparent glitches some of you also noticed. Ill probably do 1-to-1 to a dual layer disc, just thought you might have found out something in the meantime.

thanks

A

[D3s7]

The "glitches" discussed are a result of the limitations in authoring tools out currently (IE Scenarist)

There isn't really a fix and more then likely won't be until a new up-incoming authoring utility is finished but won't be for awhile because it's in early stages still