No DTS after DVD Shrink...

[DeVNuLL]

I was just wondering if anyone knew why I have the following problem.


When I used DVD Shrink on the Criterion Collection of Gimme Shelter I can not hear the DTS playback.

What I did was re-authored the DVD and only selected the DTS audio track and with the main movie.

It burnt fine with DVDdecrypter, so I stuck it back into the computer as a test where I have optical output through SPDIF to my speakers and decoder. Now it plays the whole DVD but without any sound. Now if I go and test the orig DVD that I'm backing up, it can play fine with the same setup and everything with Win DVD.

Any ideas as to why this isn't working?

Thanks,

Devnull

[ddlooping]

Hi DeVNuLL. :)

When using DVD Shrink "Re-author" mode, right-clicking on a title will give you access to a menu.
There you should be able to select which audio stream you want played by default. ;)

[DeVNuLL]

Yup, I tried that too, still doesn't work.

[ddlooping]

Sorry, DeVNuLL, I have no idea what the problem could be. :confused:

[nwg]

The shrink preview can't output the DTS track afaik. It should work with LPCM, MPG and DD though.

Also, are you sure you digital ouput can send out the DTS to the amp? My one can only do Dolby Digital.

[DeVNuLL]

Yes I am sure that my amp can use the DTS audio track as like I said, it played the DTS track fine on the orig DVD before trying to backup it.

It can handle DTS, Dolby Digital, and Prologic.

If it even helps here is a link to the specs of what I have:

I havn't bothered to even have the sound on durring the preview as I only really care about the final results.

http://yamaha.ca/computer/cp_tss_1_specs.asp

[dragongodz]

try leaving 1 ac3 track aswell and see what happens.

[MackemX]

did you have the logical remapping option selected in DVDShrink?

it looks like you didn't and the default stream has now been stripped as well as the DTS being the 2nd or more stream

you can either process again using DVDShrink and let it remap the audio or you can manually fix the IFO now and remap the streams so stream 1 is the audio (it's actually stream 0 in the IFO but you know what I mean ;))

[geffroman]

DTS does not work unless you have the AC3 audio track as well... That's what sucks about DTS... It is twice the size of Dolby 5.1 and requires the 5.1 track to be on the disc as well... DTS cannot work as a stand alone sound track... I say screw DTS and run with 5.1 only... Your image quality will be far better for it...

[nwg]

DTS can work on it's own on a disc. I have done it many times. It just means that for most people, the audio can only be heard through the DTS amp. My player can downmix DTS to 2 channel and send the audio through the TV so I don't need another audio track.

With commercial DVD's, the spec requires a PCM, AC3 2 or 5.1 channel as well. This is only so that more people can listen to the TV through a TV or non DTS amp.

[ddlooping]

Originally posted by geffroman
DTS does not work unless you have the AC3 audio track as well... That's what sucks about DTS... It is twice the size of Dolby 5.1 and requires the 5.1 track to be on the disc as well... DTS cannot work as a stand alone sound track...
Sorry to correct you, geffroman, but DTS doesn't need any other audio stream for it to work.
The DVD-Video "standards" stipulate an AC3 stream has to be on the disc too, but only so it's playable on non DTS-compatible systems. ;)

P.S: nwg, you must have clicked the "Submit" button a few seconds before me. :D

[dragongodz]

and sorry to correct you ddlooping the standard also states the a dvd player is only required to be able to decode ac3 which is why the standard video dvd is required to have an ac3 track aswell. :)

[ddlooping]

dragongodz, I think our statements complement each others.

Whether a set-top player is only required to be able to play AC3 or not is a moot point if your system (including your set-top) is DTS compatible. ;)

[geffroman]

You guys are really confusing people... We are all right... but let me make this more clear...

To be DTS compatible you must be plugged into a DTS decoder (Audio decoding these days typically happens in the TUNER not the DVD Player)... Most DVD Players will pump out audio no matter whether you are running Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby Digital 2.0. But if you only have DTS on the disc and don't have it connected to a DTS decoder (Tuner) you are shit out of luck for sound...

So if you want your movies to be compatible with TV viewing at night when the wife will kick your ass for turning on the surround system... or if you want to play your disc on your PC or at a friends house... or on the bedroom DVD Player and TV... you NEED TO INCLUDE THE AC3 sound track...

Moral of the story... Unless you KNOW you don't need it for your specific application, do like I said and include the AC3 audio.

It is clear the person that started this thread needed it.

[ddlooping]

geffroman, I do not understand the distinction between "Native DTS decoding" and "DTS compatible".
Do you mean to say some set-top players are said to be DTS-compatible when actually they aren't able to decode it?
If that is the case, what does "DTS-compatible" mean? :confused:

[ddlooping]

Thanks for letting me know you edited your previous post, geffroman. :)
However, you will notice my posts were refering to "DTS-compatible" systems, DeVNuLL having said his was. ;)
Originally posted by DeVNuLL
Yes I am sure that my amp can use the DTS audio track as like I said, it played the DTS track fine on the orig DVD before trying to backup it.

It can handle DTS, Dolby Digital, and Prologic.

If it even helps here is a link to the specs of what I have:

I havn't bothered to even have the sound on durring the preview as I only really care about the final results.

http://yamaha.ca/computer/cp_tss_1_specs.asp

[geffroman]

That's were people will get confused... Just because a person has DTS compatible player doesn't mean they can hear DTS... Almost all Players are now DTS compatible... Just means they send the raw audio to a decoder IF YOU HAVE ONE... But if some guy says "Hey I have a DTS Player and when I remove all audio except DTS I get no sound", it is a safe bet he is NOT using a DTS compatible decoder in his SYSTEM... Just has a DTS player...

All in all I am not trying to compete with you for the right answer... But anyone that knows what they own and how to run it would not ask this question...

Everyone else will be better served to know that they should keep the AC3 audio track for max compatibility... for all the reasons I stated above...

Regards... Jeff

[ddlooping]

Ok, let's agree "kinda" to disagree. ;)

[dragongodz]

ok a little on DTS compatible. my dvd player is but it does not decode DTS. it has a plug on the back for DTS pass-through to a DTS decoder. here dvd players that decode aswell say DTS decoding on the box and in the manual. enough though as its not relevant to the problem since DeVNuLL has already said he can play original dvds with DTS.

now since there is no standard i know of that says how this should be done etc then what works on 1 player may not on another. thats why i said earlier to try keeping 1 AC3 track aswell and see if the DTS worked then.

its possible(just possible) that the lack of any AC3 track may have caused the player(most likly through a bug or just no prethought) to decide there was no audio period. unless thats tested we will never know. :)

[Alurker]

basically I take it that:
1. your DVD player has to be DTS compatable and
2. your Reciever has to be able to decode it
Cause if your reciever cant do DTS and a copy only has DTS they get no sound but if the use the original they thought they were getting DTS but actually it was just the 5.1 sound and not DTS, as the Reciever picked a sound track that it could play. I was able to prove to one friend that he wasnt getting DTS in fact it was playing a 2.0 sound track.
He was sure he could do DTS cause its listed on his DVD player but found his reciever could not decode DTS.

[geffroman]

Exactly...

And what if you friend or relative wants to borrow the disc and they are NOT a DTS hardware freak ? or...

[list=a] What if you wanna watch it on the player slash TV in the bedroom that doesn't have a DTS digital reciever...?
Or take the disc in the car for the kids...?
Or take the disc on vacation and use your LapTop or portable DVD Player...?[/list=a]
Leaving off the Dolby track is ONLY sensible when you know your disc will never leave the VIEWING room you built to be DTS compatible...

[old-hack]

I've noticed that even using DVDShrink to set the default audio track you make come up "empty" when playing the movie from your dvd player. However, if you press your "audio" button on the remote, it will cycle through what it believes are available audio tracks and should find your DTS track. Don't know if you tried that or not.

My amplifier with digital input will actually display what type of audio stream is selected (i.e. DD5.1 or DTS).

[nwg]

I've noticed that even using DVDShrink to set the default audio track you make come up "empty" when playing the movie from your dvd player. However, if you press your "audio" button on the remote, it will cycle through what it believes are available audio tracks and should find your DTS track. Don't know if you tried that or not.


To stop that from happening, you need to select logical remapping of audio.

[old-hack]

Right. I found that out reading this series of posts. I'm just stating that it has happened and that might be the problem he was running into. I've also kept only DTS audio tracks and I know you have to play them through an amplifier with a DTS decoder.

[Mephiston]

I've had this happen with DVDShrink before. It turns the DTS into a 2 Channel DTS track, which won't play on anything. Seems to be a bug with Shrink and nothing to do with your player or anything.

Have had it happen to 2 movies, and the bug is recreateable (As in, it always does it with those 2).

What you can try, is use Doitfast for you on the movie you backed up, see if the DTS track is read as 0x81 or 0x8? (I think thats what it said) If it does then it's the same bug i got (It should be 0x89 for DTS). I couldn't find a way around it unless you leave in the default AC3 track as well. You might be better off using another transcoder for it.

Oh and for the record, DVD's work perfectly fine with DTS only. I do it all the time. I would say 50 or so of my backups are DTS only, and set to play DTS as the default. They work fine on even my aincent 4 Year old Player.

[geffroman]

Originally posted by Mephiston
Oh and for the record, DVD's work perfectly fine with DTS only. I do it all the time. I would say 50 or so of my backups are DTS only, and set to play DTS as the default. They work fine on even my aincent 4 Year old Player.

This is not correct... It depends totally on the player you have and HOW it is connected to your listening device... Your generalizations can cause people to waste money burning DTS only discs that will not work in their environment...

If it works for you fine... great... but others need to understand the requirements... not just anecdotal remarks like "Hey, it works for me so it will work for you...!"

[nwg]

This is not correct... It depends totally on the player you have and HOW it is connected to your listening device... Your generalizations can cause people to waste money burning DTS only discs that will not work in their environment...


It will work.

You would only keep DTS if you could hear it.

[Mephiston]

Geffroman : I'm sure everyone knows the requirements for DTS. No one would back up there disc knowing that the DTS didn't work on the original and think, "Hey, if i remove all other audio DTS will now work on my reciever"

[geffroman]

Read the whole thread... this is turning into a big circle jerk...

YES many people own DTS players that DO NOT play any sound unless you have an OPTICAL/digital connection to a DTS Amp... They think they are listening to DTS when they watch movies when they in fact are not... But hey the player says DTS right on it...

So they run Shrink and eliminate all tracks but the DTS and then start threads like this asking what and HUH because they get NO SOUND on their DTS player...

Since anyone that OWNS a complete DTS system would NOT ask these questions or seek answers on the thread it is clear the people reading this would fall into the "what and HUH" category...

Therefore telling them if your player is DTS you can eliminate all but DTS is WRONG... and helps no one...

If you have to ask why there is no sound then include the Dolby track... If you don't have to ask you aren't reading this anyway... unless you are bored and just like to debate things...

Just because there is a DTS label on the box doesn't mean you have a DTS interpreter... Most low to mid range players CANNOT pull audio out of the DTS track because they don't have an onboard decoder... They can ONLY send the RAW digital code down stream via the digital jacks which qualifies them as DTS compatible...

[MackemX]

Originally posted by geffroman
You guys are really confusing people... We are all right... but let me make this more clear...

To be DTS compatible you must be plugged into a DTS decoder (Audio decoding these days typically happens in the TUNER not the DVD Player)... Most DVD Players will pump out audio no matter whether you are running Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby Digital 2.0. But if you only have DTS on the disc and don't have it connected to a DTS decoder (Tuner) you are shit out of luck for sound...
you don't need to be plugged in as some cheap players also have onboard decoders with outputs but no on board amp . I simply connected one setup to a Creative speaker setup

basically you need something to read the DTS, something to decode the DTS and something to output the DTS in newbies terms and DVD players can fall into each of these 3 catergories :)

the original poster stated the DTS worked on his original so all 3 are in his setup. What I think was wrong was that the logical remapping was probbaly to blame in DVDShrink and messed it up :). What has happened after that in this thread is rather confusing to newbies :)

Originally posted by geffroman
DTS does not work unless you have the AC3 audio track as well... That's what sucks about DTS... It is twice the size of Dolby 5.1 and requires the 5.1 track to be on the disc as well... DTS cannot work as a stand alone sound track... I say screw DTS and run with 5.1 only... Your image quality will be far better for it... are you withdrawing this quote now geoffroman?

[Alurker]

What geoffroman has been trying to point out is still true! again more confusion.

simple put just because you played the original with DTS sound and you hear sound > does not mean you are hearing DTS, because if it can not do DTS it picks a sound it can play, you find this out the hard way if you strip everything except DTS and now you hear no sound. Which is Why he recommended not going with just DTS only.

if nothing else try it on a RW 1st. saves you a disc :)

[MackemX]

@alurker, the original poster had the means to listen to DTS as the original plays fine with DTS selected. His issue was that he stripped all the other audio and then the DTS was silent :(

I'm still waiting for DeVNuLL to try what I suggested a while back HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=521096#post521096) as I'm pretty sure it's just the stream mapping that got messed up when processing with DVDShrink

I follow what geoffroman has mentioned and he is correct in just about everything he says also but that is not what is to blame in this thread ;)