Error exporting back to DV Camcorder

[Corrado]

Hi, since I've upgraded the PC at the end of last year, I've had a new, strange problem: Windows Movie Maker doesn't recognize the DV camcorder when asked to output the edited DV video back to tape.

After the processing time, when 50% is reached and the transfer should start, it exits with an error like "DV Camcorder not found". The DV is of course properly connected (since I've just used it to grab the source video).

It's quite annoying, it started as a rare event (once per week) and now it's happening almost all the times. Considering that it happens after you've waited 1x the duration of the video (the processing time before the transfer attempt), it's even more annoying.

Of course when I upgraded I re-formatted and reinstalled everything, including all the newer drivers for all. The new config is the following, although I doubt it's something to do with it:

EPoX 4PDA3I i865PE FSB 800 - P4 2.6GHz HT FSB800- 2x512Mb DDR400 Dual Channel - GeForce4 Ti 4600 (Omega KX 1.4523a) - Realtek AC'97 Audio - QUANTUM FIREBALLlct20 40GB –Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB - Pinnacle Firewire board - JVC DV Camcorder Gr-DVL109

At the moment, I found a workaround, but it's much more time consuming:

Save the video as DV-Avi (2-3 x the video duration)
Import it in a Nero Vision Express project
Export the project to the DV camcorder (1.5 x video duration)

This process works all the times, although Vision Express doesn't seem able to start the camcorder properly (I have to press the record button on the camcorder when the preparation ends and the program waits for the stream to start).

If the workaround works, it shouldn't be a camcorder or connection problem, but something with Movie Maker...

Any hint? I didn't find useful info on the MS help sites...

[jkwarras]

Do you have several DV cocdecs installed? If yes, try to uninstall them one by one, and see which one is making trouble. I had a similar problem last year, and if I remember correctly ii was casued because I had several DV codecs installed.

Or you can try this tool: VCSwap
http://members.ams.chello.nl/p.bekke/

Which allows you to switch from one coced to another (for the same fourcc) without having to unistall them.

[Corrado]

I don't think I have more than one DV codec.

This is what VCSwap shows:

http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/codecs.txt

[jkwarras]

I really don't know if your problem relies in a fourcc problem, but it could be.

I see that you have a Pinaccle firewire but you use cdvc fourcc for your DV files which is used by the Canopus codec. In itself this isn't bad at all but maybe you have somekind of broken registry or stuff like that. Standard fourcc for DV is dvsd or dsvd.
http://www.fourcc.org/index.php?http%3A//www.fourcc.org/codecs.php

Maybe you could to this:

1) Uninstall the Canopus DV codec and see if the problem remains. normally Microsoft codec (installed by default with Windows) should playback DV. Then reinstall a third-party DV codec and see if the problem remains.

2) Try to 'Scan codec for FOURCC' and select dvsd.

If nothing helps then I don't know what it's happening, sorry.

[Video Dude]

You don't have to remove the Canopus codec, but rather try this:

Download this free Canopus DV converter program:
http://www.canopus.com/US/products/DV_file_converter/pm_dv_file_converter.asp


Open your DV file in the Canopus converter and tell the program you want to convert to Microsoft DV.

Then export the Microsoft DV file to your camera. This program will change the "cdvc" to "dvsd". Non-Canopus programs may have trouble exporting cdvc DV files. Since Movie Maker is made by Microsoft, it may be expecting dvsd which is the fourcc Microsoft uses for DV.


That should work if its a DV codec conflict.



It might be a hardware or other software conflict if this does not work.

[Corrado]

Thank for the suggestions.

Dude, according to your method, I should (1) save the AVI file from Movie Maker (which is where I capture it), (2) convert it with the Canopus converter (which I already have, and use to make MPEG-2 videos from the original AVI because TMPGEnc doesn't read the MM exports). (3) Re-import it into MM and (4) export to the DV camcorder.

This would be even longer than what I do now with MM + Nero Vision Express :D

Maybe I didn't understand something in your suggestion.:confused:

[jkwarras]

Maybe you could to this:

1) Uninstall the Canopus DV codec and see if the problem remains. normally Microsoft codec (installed by default with Windows) should playback DV. Then reinstall a third-party DV codec and see if the problem remains.

Or this (not *and then*):

2) Try to 'Scan codec for FOURCC' and select dvsd.

I'm almost sure that forucc from your avi canopus Dv file isn't properly recognised by MovieMaker. Another thing you could try it's change the fourcc of your DV file to dvsd, it should work. It will take you 5 seconds ;)

Search for 'Avi fourcc changer' in google...

[Corrado]

So, let me summarize what I should do:

1) Capture in Movie Maker => I get an un-edited AVI as "cdvc" (that seems strange, anyway, since it's created by MM)

2) Convert it to "dvsd" (via Canopus converter or using the fourcc changer)

3) Edit and export to DV

Is the sequence correct?

If not, please consider that I will not gain anything from any process that requires me to save the edited AVI to the hard disk before exporting to DV comcorder...I'm already doing it :D

[Corrado]

Originally posted by jkwarras
Maybe you could to this:
1) Uninstall the Canopus DV codec and see if the problem remains.

I can't do that: I need the Canopus codec to convert/read the DV AVI files when I pass them through TMPGEnc for the DVD conversion. TMPGEnc is crashing at the end of conversion if I feed it directly with the Movie Maker AVIs.
2) Try to 'Scan codec for FOURCC' and select dvsd.
In which program/settings should I perform this operation?

[Video Dude]

Originally posted by Corrado
So, let me summarize what I should do:

1) Capture in Movie Maker => I get an un-edited AVI as "cdvc" (that seems strange, anyway, since it's created by MM)

2) Convert it to "dvsd" (via Canopus converter or using the fourcc changer)

3) Edit and export to DV

Is the sequence correct?



1) Capture DV in Movie Maker

2) Edit and Save DV file

3) Convert it to "dvsd" with Canopus tool or change the fourcc from "cdvc" to "dvsd".

4) Output the dvsd file to camera with Movie Maker

[bb]

A fourcc changer is available at Doom9's download page:
http://www.doom9.org/Soft21/Editing/AviC.zip

bb

[Corrado]

Dude,

you suggest to save the edited AVI, then convert it, then export it back from Movie Maker....it's not a good solution, because of the duration:

1) Capture DV in Movie Maker = 1 x video duration

2) Edit and Save DV file = 2.5 x video duration

3) Convert it to "dvsd" with Canopus tool or change the fourcc from "cdvc" to "dvsd". = 0.5 x video duration

4) Output the dvsd file to camera with Movie Maker = 2 x video duration

Total processing time => 6 x video duration !

Even slower than the current method I'm using (see the first post): save the AVI and output to camcorder with Nero Vision Express ( total time 5 x duration ).

[jkwarras]

Originally posted by Corrado
In which program/settings should I perform this operation? [/B]

Use VCSwap. Select the 'cdvc' and then right-click and select 'Scan codec for FOURCC'. There should pop-up a list with used fourcc by canopus (normally at least 'cdvc' should be enabled.), check also 'dvsd' in the list.

The Canopus codec should now decode avi files with fourcc dvsd (the standard MS fourcc DV).

If it doesn't work then you really try to change the fourcc of the avi file to dvsd with the fourcc changer that bb suggests. It should make the default MS DV decoder to decode the file instead of Canopus.

[Corrado]

Originally posted by jkwarras
Use VCSwap. Select the 'cdvc' and then right-click and select 'Scan codec for FOURCC'. There should pop-up a list with used fourcc by canopus (normally at least 'cdvc' should be enabled.), check also 'dvsd' in the list.
It says "No FOURCC found in Codec" :(

[Corrado]

Originally posted by Video Dude
3) Convert it to "dvsd" with Canopus tool or change the fourcc from "cdvc" to "dvsd".
The video saved from Movie Maker is already "dvsd": I opened it with the AVI FourCC Code Changer and it was showing:

FourCC Description Code: "dvsd"
FourCC Used Codec: "ÿÿ_ÿ"

After I convert it with the Canopus converter (to Microsoft DV Type 2), it changes to:

FourCC Description Code: "dvsd"
FourCC Used Codec: "dvsd"

What does it mean?

[Video Dude]

Originally posted by Corrado

Even slower than the current method I'm using (see the first post): save the AVI and output to camcorder with Nero Vision Express ( total time 5 x duration ).


Yes it takes more steps but I gave a solution to use Movie Maker because I thought you wanted to export with Movie Maker. If it takes less time with Nero, use that as it should give the same results.


Here is a crazy solution that might make it faster:
Force Movie Maker to use the Microsoft codec rather then Canopus by uninstalling the Canopus. Then when you want to use TMPGEnc, reinstall the Canopus Codec.

So have Canopus uninstalled when you use Movie Maker and the camera, and then reinstall in before using TMPGEnc.

[Corrado]

Originally posted by Video Dude
Force Movie Maker to use the Microsoft codec rather then Canopus by uninstalling the Canopus.
Probably I had the problem even before installing the Canopus (I installed it only recently and the problem started at the end of last year when I upgraded the PC...)

Secondly, if Movie Maker is saving as "dvsd" (see post above) it shouldn't be using the Canopus codec....when I convert to Canopus format I get an AVI file which shows CDVC in the FouCC

[Video Dude]

So it seems like it is not a DV codec conflict problem then.

It sounds like there is some kind of hardware/software conflict between Movie Maker and your camera.

You know your camera works since you can export using Nero.

Did you check the Windows Update site for any patches for Movie Maker?

[jkwarras]

Originally posted by Corrado
[B]The video saved from Movie Maker is already "dvsd": I opened it with the AVI FourCC Code Changer and it was showing:

FourCC Description Code: "dvsd"
FourCC Used Codec: "ÿÿ_ÿ"

There's obviously aproblem with your registry and the fourcc assigned to DV files :( "ÿÿ_ÿ" is obviously wrong.

Secondly, if Movie Maker is saving as "dvsd" (see post above) it shouldn't be using the Canopus codec....when I convert to Canopus format I get an AVI file which shows CDVC in the FourCC

I really think it's really wrong to use a 'special' fourcc for DV instead of 'dvsd' because it leads to problems like you're having.

If your DV file is 'dvsd' while you capture it with Movie Maker it shouldn't be played by Canopus. The only thing it could be happening is:

- Canopus have also dvsd assigned in the list of fourcc to decode.
- Canopus codec has a higher priority over MS DV decoder, so even if you have both installed the one with higher priority in DShow will decode the format.

What you could do:

Option a) Uninstall Canopus. If you still need a third part codec you could try to check out Mainconcept DV codec (really good).

Option b) Try to assign a higher priority to MS DV decoder in dshow. You can do it with Zoom Player. There an option ot specify priority for Dshow filters/decoders. This is obviously worng if what you want is Canopus to decode DV stuff, but it will maybe resolve your problem.

Option c) Remove any codec you have installed and also any NLE software you may have (sometimes they mess up the registry). Restart your PC and plug your cam. Try to see if you can now capture, playback a captured DV file and send back to a DV tape from your PC. Then you could try to install a thrid-part DV codec.

Option d) Pray :D

option e) You could also try before trying other stuff to use WinDV (a small freeware tool) to capture and send back to DV tape your footage.

[Corrado]

Thanks all for the help....it caused me a bit of an headache, though :eek:

I think I'll go for option d) :D

[Corrado]

An update for anyone that might be interested.

I installed Studio 9 (it was in bundle with the Dazzle DVC90 that I bought to convert my old VHS to DVD). Now I can export back to the DV camcorder without problems, and I have a program that's much better than Windows Movie Maker ;)

I also discovered that Nero Vision express was introducing some "blurring" in the DV videos when sending back to the camcorder, so I won't use it anymore. I found it out when I re-imported some clips to the PC for additional editing :(

Probably Nero was using the wrong codec to read them?

[bb]

That's strange, because firewire transfers don't involve reencoding - it's just a simple copy step (or you may call it streaming).

bb

[Corrado]

Originally posted by bb
That's strange, because firewire transfers don't involve reencoding - it's just a simple copy step (or you may call it streaming).
Yes, it's strange and I also doubted of that, until I looked with my own eyes at some specific detail, like the title at the start of the clip. When exported with Nero Vision Express and then re-imported (with any software), the text is a bit blurred, while it's always perfect for videos edited and sent to camcorder with Studio9 (or with WMM, when it was working).

I'll try to post some pic of the problem.

[bb]

I guess the effect comes from different codecs used for en- and decoding.

bb