Build Your Own Quality LCD Video Projector

[Arkay]

Hi Everyone,

I decided several months ago that I needed a projector to view all my encodes on but as we all know they're not cheap either to buy or to run.

After much research I found something on the net that immediately interested me and I'm sure can be of benefit to many doom9'ers.

Not entirely related to video encoding but certainly worth a look for anyone who ever wanted large screen projection but didn't like the price tag.

I have just built my first DIY home theatre projector for around $700 Australian ($480 US) and also purchased a HDTV tuner for $200.

Essentially moving from standard tv on an 80cm Wega to HDTV, 9' wide projected image, for under $1000, along with PVR capabilities etc.

Take a look at lumenlab (http://www.lumenlab.com) if you're interested, results pics can be found here. (http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=476) It's no scam and the quality is amazing. I'm not related to the site (just a forum member), I just wanted to show everyone what can be done without getting ripped off by the commercial giants.

Projector companies have been ripping us off for far too long with expensive short lived bulbs and expensive cheaply made projectors.

Results from my own project can be found here. (http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1375)
I'd rate the quality as being equivalent to a $10000 commercial projector, for $700!

Anyhow. Take a look, I hope it's useful to you.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[Koepi]

That definatly looks interesting!

Too bad they sell the pdf for ~20 bucks. I could do that with my downloads, too :devil: (just kidding, but still, such things should be free.)

Interesting idea, I'll see if anyone notices if i take a 15" tft from work with me home tonight.

In that thread you mentioned you tried with a torch - is it as amazing as with the real bulb? that would make it a lot more "geek'ish" and cheaper ;)

Regards
Koepi

[b0b0b0b]

For less than US$1000, you can get a d-ila projector (1365x1024) that puts up 1000 lumens. There's less of a DIY quality, but it's what I've had for a few years and it's awesome. Problems like overheating (it doesn't) and handling several different inputs (rgbhv, svideo, composite, vga, YPrPb) are taken care of already.

Also, it does special internal scaling of a 1080i input so your hdtv can look pretty good to boot.

[b0b0b0b]

I just had to add that 5 years ago, when dila's first came out they were around $19k. Saying that the picture obtained in that lumenlabs forum post compares to a $10k projector is hyperbole to say the least. I soooooo do not trust those guys.

[Koepi]

I just peaked at the manual, it looks definatly serious. No need to doubt that - it's just about: do i dare to build something myself or do i need a polished exteriour made of cheap plastic?

;)

Regards
Koepi

[Arkay]

Well. I knew there'd be scepticism, I felt exactly the same way until I saw it on a screen in front of me.

I'm seriously not kidding on the quality stakes. I'm talking $10000 AUD by the way, not $10k US.

Just one question about your DLP, does the lamp only cost $35 and last for 20000 hours?

Can you put a 1900x1280 panel (chip) in it anytime they become cheap enough?

Those people that always walk away from something muttering "it's too good to be true", are also the people that never benefit from anything that is.

I'm surprised you didn't mention "screen door" as well but I can assure you that larger panels exhibit the phenomena much less due to the manufacturing process. The "fill factor" of tiny lcd panels is around 50%, meaning that 50% of the screen is gaps between the pixels (large screen door). 15" panels have larger pixels (more surface area) with the same gaps as smaller lcds. But the fill factor is around 80-90% due to the larger pixels, so the screen door is invisible from a couple of feet away.

Just some thoughts.

These PJ's have been quoted to hold their own against Barco 808's. Whether you believe or not is entirely up to you.

Admitedly the size of the thing is an issue, but a CRT is not much smaller, it also doesn't suit everybody to build their own.

But if you like DIY and the satisfaction you get from building your own then I know you can get a VERY good quality, upgradeable, cheap to run projector from this project.

If the size is an issue you can build a 7" or 8" version with an in car lcd dvd panel, use whatever you want, it's DIY, most typically use a 15" panel at 1024x768 but there are those that pay the extra and make uwxga (1900x1280) projectors :)

You can always build it into a coffee table. It's even possible to mount it in the ceiling and use a mirror to project onto the screen, all you'd see in the room is a lense on the ceiling.

As to the $20 US to join the site (to buy the plans), I can tell you it's worth it, the forums you gain access too when payed have 1000 times more information and designs than the basic guide and the people are friendly and helpful. The guide is basic, designed with the intent that anyone should be able to build it within their budget (there are those that have done it for under $200 US).

You can also find similar plans on the internet from diyaudio and other places, but none of those places are as professionally organised and helpful as lumenlabs has been. It's just a very well structured site with all the information and help you could possibly want, all centered around a single base design. diyaudio is a million designs from a million people, nothing standard, there are poor builders and guys that have more skill than I could ever hope too, it's hard to wade through. That's why I recommend lumenlab, just from my own experiences with this project. Every now and then something happens that everyone get's in on because the market has been ripping them off, look at mp3 and DVD-R. I believe this is another case of the world fighting back against rediculous levels of capitalism.

I decided for $700 it was worth a try and I'm wrapped that I did. My overheating issues are my fault (bad measurements, bad builder!), but will be fixed by the end of the weekend.

As for inputs, if you like to you can go and buy a 15" lcd tv, and strip it, then you get composite, s-video, component and VGA plus a built in TV tuner.

The last screen shot(of nemo)in my thread is completely untouched (apart from being resized from a 5MP camera), and gives a very good representation of what I see on screen (although being there is better :) ).

I'm not trying to sound like an advertisement, but it's damn hard to tell people about something that's as cool as this without coming off that way :)


Cheers,
Arkay.

[Koepi]

That's indeed impressing.

I still try to figure out if such a huge, hot, and power-consuming light bulb is really needed or if i.e. a lamp like for car lights would suffice (as we're talking about 3€ max. costs it's easy to test).

That'd solve thermal problems much simlper, but I fear the lumen those lamps emittate don't suffice.

Regards
Koepi

[Arkay]

Koepi,

I can tell you that the 400 watter is necessary for this project. It doesn't create too much heat, just that my building skills have left air gaps that causes my cooling to be in-effective. I don't have time to fix till the weekend...

Built properly they are safe and reliable. This is my first attempt. The good thing is that even if I were to start all over it would only cost me about $20 in wood and most likely be complete withing a week. As it is I can fix it for nothing, just requires a bit of time.

Halogen globes will work, but the color temp is wrong and they don't last very long and aren't really bright enough. These things use Metal Halide 30000+ lumen lamps (for the 15" version).

If you get into it you'll learn that all this has been tested many times before. The 7" version only used a 250w lamp.

I could go into it all but doom9 isn't the place and there really is a lot of information to digest. It's not complex, actually very simple, but the results with the right equipment are stunning. :)

Cheers,
Arkay.

[grumpy]

A lot of building going on here (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=20) .

[Doobie]

For anyone with the slightest interest, the DIY projector is something you should do. A few hundred bucks and you'll have a "TV" that blows away anything you can buy from the Best Buy video department.

And, it is very true that commercial projectors are very expensive. 25-cents-per-minute just for the bulb, never mind your air conditioner bill.

[grumpy]

There are probably a lot of people who would be interested in this...to bad the discripion of the thread sounds like spam.

[Wilbert]

to bad the discripion of the thread sounds like spam.
What thread? Or do you mean "the guide"?

[b0b0b0b]

Hi, it does sound like a cool project :).

I think my skepticism comes from a couple of main issues. One of which is, where can you get lcd panels? anywhere besides ebay? If I could get cheap lcd panels, I would love to add monitors to my computer.


My 400w xenon bulb, in my experience, costs about half a cent per minute of use (for replacing). As for the electric bill, who knows :)

[grumpy]

The title of this thread...it sounds like spam. I don't think it is...but. It might seem like to others.

[jernst]

@Arkay

Sounds interesting !
What about noise ? Do you need to put a fan for the heat extraction ?

[Doobie]

B0b0b0b, the easiest way is just to buy a 15" (or so) LCD monitor. If you can position the electronics out of the way, you're on your way.

Lots of bulbs are cheaper than the ones commonly used in commercial projectors. This is another reason to build your own.

Jernst, yeah, you need a fan. If the LCD gets hot, the picture quality goes down the tubes.

[Arkay]

Sorry about the thread title. Just changed it, hopefully it's a little less "Infomercial" :)

All the information is available on Lumenlabs, some of it at diyaudio but again it's all in one place at Lumenlabs.

There's a list of compatible 15" lcd's (ones that strip and suit the project). As well as answers to any other questions you could dream up.

Cheers,
Arkay.

P.S. Mine is now almost complete, a friend and I spent all day re-wiring and adjusting a few things yesterday, just need to mount the lcd and lenses and she'll be up and running!! I can't wait. 10 foot wide LOTRROTK, Prince of persia on the PS2... 720p TV, life sized!

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by Arkay
[B]Halogen globes will work, but the color temp is wrong and they don't last very long and aren't really bright enough. These things use Metal Halide 30000+ lumen lamps (for the 15" version).

Maybe a xenon one could do the trick. By the way, how many lenses does your projector have?

[Arkay]

Hi Latexxx,

Xenon's would probably work, don't quote me on that, but I think they might be more expensive and not last as long. The MH lamps being chosen fit 4 main criteria:

1. Colour purity,
2. Brightness,
3. Lamp life,
4. Cost.

There's no reason not to use them.

These projectors have 3 lenses, essentially it's the same principal as lcd projection panels sitting on top of overhead projectors. Except these are higher quality lenses in a purpose built enclosure with a much better lamp, capable of both focus and keystone adjustment.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[MfA]

AFAICS the main reason why commercial projectors are a lot more expensive is that they use far smaller panels, which complicates the design a lot (dont expect to be getting as good quality with 7" panels). The market for luggable projectors as opposed to portable is probably too niche to be targeted for cheap mass production.

[The Belgain]

Seems interesting... the only thing I'm wondering about is if it's so great, then why aren't any commercial comapnies offering this kind of design? Surely this would mean 720p projectors for about $500 (plus whatever markup they want to put on). And would even mean you could have 1080p projectors for about $2000 (based on the Apple 23" widescreen display (though it would be such a shame to rip one of those up...)). I realise these are considerably bigger than normal LCD/DLP projectors, but most people will ceiling mount these for home cinema anyway, and so the added size isn't really that much of an issue.

Also, seeing as there are no bezels once the screen has been stripped off, would it be possible to use several screens to get a higher res image? I.e. 2 15" panels side-by-side to give a res of 2048x768? Or 2 17" ones for 2560x1024? Just a thought...

[Arkay]

I'd think the commercial companies are quite happy pushing the "smaller is better" angle whilst producing, in most cases, sub standard projectors that they can charge an arm and a leg for, then milk everyone on the lamps forever more.

I have no idea what the costs to the manufacturer are for your average small lcd or dlp projector. I'm guessing it wouldn't approach $500 per unit. They sell these for $1000's with bulb replacement costs in the $400-$700 range every 2000 hours.

Originally most "projection" was sold at high prices to corporate customers. The projection industry has done little to reduce the cost to the average home cinema enthusiast and from my point of view have only dropped pricing where there is an equally large drop in quality. i.e. They have attempted to maintain they're rediculous profit margins, whilst selling cheap units to Joe public.

New display technologies seems to be heading down this track too, rear projections and plasma both suffer reduced life span when compared to CRT, and cost substancially more comparitively speaking. They've used the HDTV revolution to re-make their markets and sell less longevity at a higher price, which means more profit and continuing business for them.

Meanwhile we all get screwed. Well, maybe not. Maybe they've tightened the screws too hard and now people will take things into their own hands and make their own projectors :)

I actually found all this whilst researching plasma and widescreen TV. I laugh now when I think about the 50" plasma for $9000 vs the 10' projection for $700!!! :)

I don't beleive you could double your res by using two panels. They do have a border around them so you can't place them side by side, overlapping them would be visible in the resultant image.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[MfA]

You might be right on the lamps, it is probably a little like the inkjet printer world, although getting more light from a smaller area is not easy.

As for plasma, yeah the burn in sucks ... but so does poor black level when the lights are on :p

[Doobie]

Originally posted by The Belgain
Seems interesting... the only thing I'm wondering about is if it's so great, then why aren't any commercial comapnies offering this kind of design? Surely this would mean 720p projectors for about $500 (plus whatever markup they want to put on).

Just like you can put together a PC a lot cheaper than you can buy one... This is all the more true considering that commercial projectors are designed to be small rather than cheap.

And would even mean you could have 1080p projectors for about $2000 (based on the Apple 23" widescreen display (though it would be such a shame to rip one of those up...)).

Most LCD monitors (at least older ones, which I have more experience with) you can take apart without damaging them. If your project doesn't work out, just put them back together and use the LCD as a regular monitor.

Also, seeing as there are no bezels once the screen has been stripped off, would it be possible to use several screens to get a higher res image? I.e. 2 15" panels side-by-side to give a res of 2048x768? Or 2 17" ones for 2560x1024? Just a thought...

I would guess it's possible (commercial projectors sometimes use three LCDs, one for each color, to make one image). But, it would be too difficult for me to try. You can't just put two LCDs together and treat them as one physical unit. You'd have a band in the picture and you have to drive them separately.

The thing that is kind of surprizing about a big screen projector is that the picture quality looks much better than you might expect at a given resolution. HDTV on a cheap 1024 x 768 LCD would be very sweet, even if you aren't getting the full benefit of HDTV resolution. You could use a 1600 x 1200 resolution 4:3 LCD and probably have a picture about as nice as Apple's widescreen LCD at half the price.

[Arkay]

Update.

My PJ has no more cooling problems thanks to a friend of mine with better tools :)

Ran for 15 hours straight yesterday, I'd never do that on a commercial unit, but 15 out of 15000... Who cares :)

Cheers,
Arkay.

[Arkay]

Not wanting to reply to myself but for those interested I have updated my thread at Lumenlabs with the latest screen shots... It looks awesome!!!

Take a look here. (http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1375)

-Arkay.

[int 21h]

Is there any updates to this? How is it working out? I am carefully considering shelling out the $$ for the guide and support... still of the same opinion?

[neo75903]

Maybe i am sceptic, and one of those ppl never benefits from stuff like this. On the otherhand i am very interested in the future development of an DIY Projector.

Still claiming projector prices are high is not always true. Yes, good projectors have an 3000 euro tag.
Prices did not drop dramatically, but the quality of those projector have increased over time. There are also 1200 euro projectors around and the quality of those are comparable for projectors a few years ago with a 3000 euro price tag.
I just can hope that those bulbs will drop over time, they are idd expensive to replace.

Still there are things i have my doubts like:
- I have a sony HS10 which has a subliem zoom function and resizing processor. (for converting the picture to the native resolution)
- Optical zoom, kinda handy for setting up.
- Vertical digital keystone, handy for ceiling mount.
- Many input types.
- Dont forget the Tri LCD panel!
- Much better finished case :)

I also noticed on screenshots that many pictures have a slightly dimmed picture in the corners.

As with many things, it is in the small things that makes up the price.

[Doobie]

Originally posted by neo75903 I also noticed on screenshots that many pictures have a slightly dimmed picture in the corners.

As with many things, it is in the small things that makes up the price. [/B]

My projector has dedicated to one task: displaying PC output while hanging from the basement ceiling. And, for that, it has every feature I need or want.

When building it, I was careful to prevent corners from looking dark. It has a picture quality of a good projector while being cheaper than the cheapest projector.

But, yes, if you want features and convenience, then you fork over the cash.

Int 21h, I don't know anything about Lumenlabs stuff.

[neo75903]

Hey Doobie,
Can you post some pictures from your projector? From the projector and display output. I think that might be interesting for most ppl to actual see one of those things :)

[shahmat]

I actually work in the lighting business, and if you want your lighting rig to work well, I have some higher-end equipment I can recommend to use. While a 400W metal halide lamp gives of plenty of light, you can get much clearer light out of a 250W ceramic metal halide lamp using an electronic ballast (rather than a core/coil with capacitor). The light color stays stable across the life of the lamp, there's no noticeable color shift when you replace the lamp (metal halide lamps are usually off within 50K of each other, which is why you don't often put multiple lamps next to each other), and with the electronic ballast, it'll keep the lamp color even more stable and clamp down on surge currents when the lamp gets closer to its end of life (reducing the amount of power it draws). It's also a lot quieter; ever heard that nasty 60Hz hum out of streetlights? Electronic ballasts are as quiet as possible. Add to that the fact that CMH lamps are now getting upwards of 6000-10000 hours of life, and it's definitely worth the extra cost over standard metal halide if you're one of those people who has to have perfection in your projector. (You know the kind; they're bugged when their LCD monitor has one single dead pixel, they take the highest end video card/processor/RAM chips because they "need" performance, etc.)

Just a little heads up for all you perfectionists out there. :)

[neo75903]

i think there are some oppertunities in projector replacement market seen as with the inkjet.
The golden chicken would be someone inventive enough to get one of those lamps to fit in a standard projector.
But as far i know those lamps are way bigger then the ones ued in a projector :/

[Arkay]

Whoa. Sorry guys, Didn't realize this thread had popped back to life.

Int21h, there are some updates. I don't have time to go into right now. Just about to leave work for the day. But I will add some details later.

Interesting posts above that need some comment.

There have been many advances of late. In point form:

1. Larger varifocus projection triplet lens available (with long throw).
2. Larger Fresnels available cheaply, which means ability to use 17 or 19" widescreen panels.
3. Different lighting available, brighter still at 400watt.

The list goes on.

As for my projector it has gone through a month of tweaking and I must say the image now is extremely nice. It's gone through far too much to comment on here though suffice to say that when you fix one image problem it alows you to see the next one but with each iterative process the overall picture quality improves, until it is as good as it can get.

Of course, now I want to build a 17" version with the better optics, reflectors, and higher res. Unfortunately it's an addictive game. :)

Don't hesitate, build one. If you're careful and don't damage your external casing on your lcd you can always put it back together and use it as a monitor. All the other parts are very easy to sell if you're not happy with the end result. People are building these things like a craze! Trying it will only cost you about $50 if you're not happy with the end result.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[Arkay]

Sorry about the multiple posts. Posted the above reply the night the forums died and somehow ended up with 5 copies of the same message.

At any rate I can happily say that the DIY projector is well worth the investment.

I was having some difficulties with the size of the output image and having to switch between 4:3 and 16:9. Fortunately I have now resolved this problem.

I've used powerstrip to design a custom resolution of 1024x576. The windows desktop also uses this res and since all my display sources are now widescreen (dvd and HDTV), I only need to use this res for everything. This gives me the option to mount a permanent 16:9 screen.

I'd still prefer to build a MKII with a 17" widescreen panel.

If I do I'll be taking everything I learnt first time around and building a top quality machine with ulta high res, better lighting and optics and in a much smaller design.

The experience has been well worth it just from the "science" perspective.

It's not for everyone and the size of the box is an annoyance. The picture quality is great though. It does suffer a little from low contrast ratio's but no more than any other lcd based projector.

Might be selling MKI soon to finance MKII :)

Cheers,
Arkay.

[neo75903]

This look really interesting, though i am not a very handyman, that is why i have choosen a job behind the pc. Love that undo button :)

But if you guys dont mind, would be nice to see some pictures from your works, or websites from your works are also interesting.

Like you guys said, the size of the box might be annoying, limiting the box size is definitely somehing to look at. So is weight as well especially for ceiling mounts.

[SallyDog]

If you really want to look at pictures and get a good feel for how these things look and operate, the best thing is to go ahead and pay the $20 for the guide. Actually, I found the guide to be rather useless, but paying the $20 allows access to the "closed" threads on the lumenlab site. You will find a ton of "how-to" answers and images there.

I bought it about a month ago. Probably will never build one of the boxes, but at least I have access if I decide too. And, it did make for some interesting reading.

[((( atom )))]

sure looks interesting.

i do have some questions/worries, that hopefully someone can answer..

if i am getting it right, the bulb is placed behind the display.

that brings up the question:
how black ist the actual black being projected?

also important would be:
how bright is the thing? can anybody compare it and give an approx. value in ansi lumen?

[int 21h]

From what I've gathered, the accuracy of your blacks and greys varies in direct proportion to the contrast ratio of the LCD used (i.e. 200:1 gives ok blacks but 1000:1 will give very accurate blacks)

Take a look at their Project Gallery, quite a few people have posts showing how bright their projector is. They all look pretty similar, except for the user or two that has made an apparent mistake.

[Arkay]

The higher the contrast ratio of the panel the more black level you will get. LCD is inherently bad at producing black levels. Even commercial units suffer when compared to DLP and CRT projectors.

I have found mine to be quite watchable even in dark scenes though I will admit it could use some more in the black level department, but I've said that about commercial lcd also.

Brightness wise no one has even had one measured with a lumen meter but through calculation based on the transmissive properties of the optics and some assumtion they figure around 1500 lumens.

Brightness isn't everything in a movie projector though. In a darkened room it can actually be too bright if you overset the contrast and brightness controls.

There are also a number of new designs emerging at lumenlabs and other places that use front surface mirrors to fold the light path. That, coupled with putting the lcd/fresenls in the box on an angle can reduce the physical size of the box a fair bit. Complexity of building also goes up. The good part is to scrap an old design and try a new one only costs you the price of the enclosure, you can reuse everything else.

Ok. Enough for now. Things to do, movies to watch ;)

-Arkay.

[((( atom )))]

yes, yes. the black level department alway really bothers me a lot even with very good commercial projectors..

at my girlfreinds place i could make her little sony projector project black a lot better (or project black a lot worse, hehe..) by using a screen that is not purely white but a bit greyish. white still looks white, and dark areas gained a lot.

i guess, i'll just have to build one and see for myself. i had a closer look around on lumenlabs and it really looks very promising.

i wonder, if one could use two lamps, but that will bring up even more black-value problems.

the folded design surely is interresting, i'll check it out.

[Arkay]

You can't use two light sources. The design is based on requiring a point light source. To be honest I don't think you'd ever need more than a 400 Watt metal halide. Some say a 250 Watt is more than enough with the right "light engine" (Reflector and condenser lenses).

Brightness is certainly no issue in mine. I will be investigating some of the new silver screens though. Sony even have a new one out now that is black. Designed only to reflect on axis red, green or blue light. Said to increase contrast on lcd projectors dramatically. The off axis light rejection also makes it useable in non controlled lighting environments.

One thing is for sure, the screen is every bit as important as the projector itself.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[((( atom )))]

Originally posted by Arkay
One thing is for sure, the screen is every bit as important as the projector itself. very right! people always underestimate that factor. (i myself tend to as well..). that sony screen sounds very interesting, got a link?

[neo75903]

The screen i am using:
http://www.projecta.nl/wall.htm#pro

Reasonable priced and good build quality and ofcourse excellent picture.

[Doobie]

Originally posted by Arkay One thing is for sure, the screen is every bit as important as the projector itself.

I have a silver projecter screen. But, I decided not to use it because I wanted a picture that is much bigger than the screen. I use a 14'-tall wall that is off-white (yellowish). And, the picture quality is just fine, about as good as the silver screen. Even the whites look white. I was going to paint it, but decided not to because it works nicely as is.

[neo75903]

tried an white wall at my friends house first in which i cannot say it is bad as in not acceptable. I have to admit that even for such a cheap solution it was looking very good.
Then we hang up a average screen and we were all agree that the contrast and brightness have improved.
An wall as screen is ok if you have a projector that can deliver lots of light.

[Arkay]

Try this:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=9984

At the moment I'm just using curtain backing hanging over an existing curtain until I decide on a permanent screen. Had friends over watching it on Sat and they all agreed it's great as it is. I can only imagine the quality will improve dramatically with a proper screen.

Cheers,
Arkay.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can you upload some photo's of whay you've done?


Cheers

[((( atom )))]

Originally posted by Arkay
Try this:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=9984thx, had already investigated the topic deeply :) if sony can keep what they promise, we could really be facing a "bright" future, hehe..

[neo75903]

wow if this is true, and the price is reasonable, i think this will boost projector sales. And if i can afford it, gonna change my screen for one of sony's. Anyone any ideas about the price or release date?
Or any actual reviews?

[Arkay]

I'd rather not post photo's on Doom9's site. It'll take up a heap of bandwidth. If you'd like to check out some photo's of other peoples projects (and my own), you can see them in the publically available section on the lumenlabs web site

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showforum=3

There's more than enough there to wet your appetite :)

Cheers,
Arkay.