editing, effects and smart rendering

[ajanas]

Hello,
I am note sure if this question belongs here or in the Non Linear Editing forum.
I have had Sony DCR-TRV 320 for a few years and I would like to transfer some of the tapes into DVD. While I was able to follow guides on doom9 and master dvd back-ups of DVD's with a dvd2svcd using CCE, DV to DVD seems to be more complicated.
Initially I thought that I might use windows moviemaker 2 to transfer dv into dv-avi on hd and do editing/effects etc., and then use dvd2svcd to encode it into mpeg-2.
e.g. sony DV (NTSC) -> moviemaker 2 to HD and effects ->virtualdubmod avisynth filters) -> CCE.

However after reading postings it looks like this would cause loss of the quality when moviemaker re-saves edited files and instead I need a software that does smart rendering and then can frameserve to CCE.
DV to DVD guide is not really clear which of the programs mentioned there does smart rendering.
If possible, can anyone suggest software (different than moviemaker) and give me a workflow that I could follow to accomplish this (similar to what I am showing above) while minimize software cost?

[HighInBC]

What do you need in moviemaker that avisynth could not do? avisynth is designed to never compress a frame.

if you must use movie maker, you must save it in uncompressed format to avoid loss.

But seriously, avisynth can do it all, cuts, transistions, all sorts of stuff.

[HighInBC]

Private message me with your icq # and I will walk you through making the script.

[mustardman]

A program that does smart rendering, and is easy to use is "Premiere". It is expensive, but certainly saves the hassle of trying to write scripts for complex sequences, especially if you need to change an edit which then affects all the following edits.

Highly reccommended.

MM

[HighInBC]

Originally posted by mustardman
A program that does smart rendering, and is easy to use is "Premiere". It is expensive, but certainly saves the hassle of trying to write scripts for complex sequences, especially if you need to change an edit which then affects all the following edits.

Highly reccommended.

MM

saves you the hassle of writing scripts... or saves your the power of writing scripts....

think about it...

this is no comment on Premier as I have not used it... but if you can understand scripting, it is the best way to set up video... after all 'scripts' are exactly how movies are designed, only natural that they be organized and rendered that way.

[communist]

Well if you work professionally on Video editing etc. then you'll just have to use Premiere. There is simply no way you can edit a film / program faster with AviSynth than with Premiere. Premiere and other NLE are the way video is meant to be edited on PCs - visually not by scripts IMHO.

AviSynth gives you other power - that would be:
- mostly no color space conversions (higher quality)
- no temporary files
- variety of very good deinterlacers / denoisers and other video filters
- all free / open source

I have edited small documentaries for a small TV station nearby with Premiere - and I can honestly tell you that even tweaking (changing in/out points and instant review for ex.) a certain cut would already take way too long in AviSynth compared to Premiere. Which is something that you have to do every few minutes. Being able to do things fast - just dropping a clip into the timeline and trim it a bit around is certainly faster than watching it, noting in/out points, setting them and then reviewing the cut in another program.
But you could also edit your stuff linear which will give you a small speed boost too - no transfer to PC. You have instant access to the stuff that is on tape and can start editing without having to worry about capturing / hdd space.

Oh and AviSynth will result in recompression even for 'cuts - only' assuming you frame-serve the whole files with it. That is something Premiere doesnt.

[HighInBC]

True, avisynth is not the fastest way, it does take alot longer to get the best results... I suppose if you have deadlines then you should point and click... and ya, thats true, if you are doing cuts only you can use vdub's append and cut mode in fast recompress...

Therefore I qualify my previous post by saying 'avisynth is the best way for me to make the highest quality finished video'.

I did not know premeier could serve raw frames, that sounds very powerfull.

[communist]

Originally posted by HighInBC
I did not know premeier could serve raw frames, that sounds very powerfull.
Hmm not sure if you understood me right or if I understand you right ;)
But when working with DV files only dissolves / wipes and the like will be rendered (Smart Rendering) on all other locations (simple stream / simple cut) Premiere will perform a DirectStreamCopy when outputting your project to file / tape.

This all means that you leave your video untouched (no cropping / no resizing / no noise removal - nothing). Thats ok if you know how to shoot and it certainly will save you a lot of time when doing the final editing. But once in a while you'll get a clip that you _absolutely_ have to use and the cameraman forgot to white balance. So you are left with a blueish / yellowish color - thats the only point where I do some color correction and therefore the whole clip will be compressed again but thats ok if the picture turns out a lot better :)
This all comes from a hobby editor's point of view -> get it done fast and with the least loss in signal quality - you dont worry too much about noise removal etc. when your output will be viewed on TV - which is very forgiving if your original material is half-way decent :D

As for frameserving -> AFAIK there are some frameservers available for Premiere which allow you to create your project within Premiere (and only have those special dissolves etc. compressed twice) and then frameserve it to an external encoder.

[HighInBC]

ahh, I misunderstood, yes it is a shame that avisynth required re-encoding of the entire output aven when changes would normall not require it... not much of a way to get around it.

But you can get away with only a single dv re-encode which has a very small genereation loss...

But if your output format is different, as in transcoding to DVD, then avisynth does not have such problems as reencoding is required anyways.

Thanks for the tips, if my edits are small and simple and I intend to export back to DV then I will use that software.

[Video Dude]

Ulead Video Studio is a lot cheaper than Premiere Pro. It has the smart render feature.

The more expensive Ulead Media Studio has the abilty to frameserve.

You can download the Ulead frameserver from: http://www.videotools.net

[bb]

The free alternative "PluginPac FrameServer for Premiere, MediaStudio, and Vegas" can be found in the "Links" sticky thread in this forum.

bb