Witch DV cam to buy (PAL or NTSC)

[Alex Z]

I live in USA but often travel to Europe. I'm planning to buy Sony DCR-PC330 or similar.

Can someone explain is it better to buy PAL version or NTSC? I'm planning to do conversion later. The problem I suspect is NTSC cam uses 29.97i so the 'slowdown' to 25fps is out of question. So I'll be left with option loosing 5fps, which of course will be notable as a non-smooth playback. Can anyone explain all pros and cons before I bought the cam?

Thanks in advance
az

[hendrix]

pros and cons..hmm

if youre planning on converting your footage to film then a PAL camera shot at 1/50 would be the way to go, it converts to 24p well, more spatial resolution, but the con would be that your footage would slow down. plus shooting PAL is better in EU or other contries that uses a 50hz cycle since you can just shoot at 1/50 shutter speed thus reducing light flicker. you will get light flicker if you shoot in the states with a pal camera.

since you live in USA and almost all NTSC video cameras shoot at 30i (29.97fps), and i have yet to find a consumer/Prosumer NTSC camera that shoots at 1/50 shutter speed as NTSC is able to shoot at 1/60, you will get some light flicker when shooting in the EU and Nothern Japan (southern japan runs on a 60hz cycle). the pro with NTSC is you can convert it to film without effecting speed.

just wondering what is your media target?

[Alex Z]

just wondering what is your media target?

DVD

[hendrix]

personally i would shoot NTSC - it's just easier...converting PAL to NTSC for personal use might be more trouble than it's worth...i live in Yokosuka, Japan which is on a 50hz cycle (same as europe) - i shoot NTSC and have no problems.

[Alex Z]

[i] converting PAL to NTSC for personal use might be more trouble than it's worth.... [/B]

Well, I have some experience with PAL to NTSC film (23.976) conversion. But dealing with 30i NTSC... Can DV camcorder be switched between PAL or NTSC? My only worry is if I pick NTSC model will I loose 5fps during conversion? If I buy PAL model I can convert (slowdown) to 23.976 and apply 3:2 pulldown. This should be within NTSC spec. Please let me know if I’m wrong on that.

Thanks
az

[Bogalvator]

I would definitely go for the NTSC option.

I assume you will be most often watching on NTSC device, hence no conversion will be necessary. Also, almost all modern (10 years old and newer) PAL TVs in Europe can playback NTSC material.

A significant amount of quality loss will occur if you do that type of PAL to NTSC conversion on 50i material i.e. deinterlace to 25 progressive fps then slowdown to 23.976 and do pulldown. It would be better to go 50i --> 59.94i, but that's a hassle and quite tricky to get really good results, plus time consuming.

Like I said, definitely NTSC!

[Alex Z]

@ hendrix

the pro with NTSC is you can convert it to film without effecting speed.

Can you explain how to do that (You mean convert 30i->24p right?)

[hendrix]

Originally posted by Alex Z
@ hendrix

[B][i]

Can you explain how to do that (You mean convert 30i->24p right?)
make sure your shutter is set at 1/60 or the picture will studder after conversion...you can use some avs scripts check out scharfis brain's website (http://home.arcor.de/scharfis_brain/60ito24p.html) he has some good scripts. of course the easiest way is to use After Effects and Magic Bullet Suite and convert your footage - thats what i use.

if you shoot with PAL and want to convert to 24p shoot with the shutter at 1/50 and follow the rest

[Alex Z]

@hendrix and Bogalvator
Thanks for the tips. I'll give it a try once I'll get the cam.

@all
Slightly OT. Which cam to get Panasonic PV-GS200 or Sony DCR-PC330? Any other?

[HighInBC]

I also recommend NTSC, but don't get a Sony(just my opinion), I got a Panasonic PV-GS200 and it is soooooo slick... 3 CCD's for proper colour

[Q-W-Y]

Just OT>

Why NTSC uses so strange fps?? I mean that integral numbers are better....

[jggimi]

Very off topic question.

The short answer: 29.97fps Color NTSC was made to be compatible with the older 30fps B&W NTSC.

The much longer answer: http://www.ntsc-tv.com/ntsc-main-01.htm

[scharfis_brain]

@hendrix:

got now the Adobe After Effects & Magic Bullet Demo

can you provide an easy click by click guide
for converting a 60i TFF 640x480 MJPEG AVI with Magic BUllet to 24p?

My brain really hurts trying to setup this in AE....

[hendrix]

Originally posted by scharfis_brain
@hendrix:

got now the Adobe After Effects & Magic Bullet Demo

can you provide an easy click by click guide
for converting a 60i TFF 640x480 MJPEG AVI with Magic BUllet to 24p?

My brain really hurts trying to setup this in AE....
hope the footage was shot with 1/60 shutter or it wont look right

1. after importing your footage into AE press Ctrl+F to interpret your footage, make sure to set separate fields to off

2. hit Ctrl+N for a new comp - make sure the timecode is 23.976fps

3. drag footage into timeline and press F3 to open up the Effects Control Window right click and select Magic Bullet, hit auto setup and select what options you want, always deartifact your footage, make sure you have both motion blur and frame blending checked

4. add whatever effect you choose

5. hit Ctrl+M to make movie, make the field render to Lower Field first for DV or in your case Upper field First, make sure the 3:2 pulldown is set to WWSSW and render away - it takes a while to render unless you have a render farm.

i usually add Motion Blur 3 plug-in - IMO it has a nice looking blur

hope this helps

[MGRip]

Hi, I have (camcorder) JVC GR-DX75 with PAL format. In my country the broadcast format is PAL, however I think it is a better choise to take NTSC camcorder because more video editing software built for that and more compatble to NTSC.
I paid for it double price (780$ instead of ~480) & all for what? For PAL format!!!
As I know the PAL is like a "special edition" in the camcorder range because they are all made is Japan where the broadcast format is NTSC. This why they cost more money. In addition a lot of times there are a lot of "fucks" (sorry abut the word) in PAL camcorders.
BUT! There is a very importent point in all this: PAL has higher vertical resolution so if we take one field of an interlaced dv video we get 720*288p with pal & 720*240p for NTSC (most of dv camcorders have 500-540 horizantal lines). I don't believe that it is so noticeble but you should consider this too.

At the buttom line, I think the PAL format causes more problem that it solves (taken from matrix reloaded).

[Alex Z]

Originally posted by HighInBC
I also recommend NTSC, but don't get a Sony(just my opinion), I got a Panasonic PV-GS200 and it is soooooo slick... 3 CCD's for proper colour

Ok I got Pan GS200. I have mixed fillings about this cam. If you move it too fast the video is very fuzzy. As if you do night shots. And it is not just the refresh rate of the viewfinder. When it is transferred to dv-avi it shows the same problem on my monitor. Also converting it to 24p leaves undesirable post-interlace artifacts on flat corners of any object (all 4 modes). This is not really a problem of just this cam. I used DV material from Sony VX2000 and it also shows this problem. I assume it will only visible on monitor not TV.

The colors are more natural then the entry-level Sony trv13 that I had in the past. The cam's still pics part is a joke.

Can anyone in PAL world confirm that interlaced material from DV can be converted to 24p without these artifacts?

Thanks.
az

[MGRip]

So you bought PAL?
How much it costed to you?
Can you send pure dv file that you captured? I want to see? (via ICQ msn yahoo or whatever you choose..)
As you mantioned in you profile, your location is ukraine too, so do you speak russian?

And answer to your quastion, yes, it is possible to convert to 24p from PAL (read my previos post for my camcorder info) without any artifacts! I've sucseed very well.

Regards,
Mark.

[hendrix]

Originally posted by Alex Z
Can anyone in PAL world confirm that interlaced material from DV can be converted to 24p without these artifacts?

Thanks.
az
make sure your shutter speed is set to 1/50 for PAL to 24p conversion