DVD RB and Closed Captions (CC)

[DocDragon]

ok, i just finished the conversion of "the matrix" (ntsc, r1). only english AC3 (2 channels) was removed within DVD-RB. encoder was CCE basic. menu encoding was activated. VBR Bias = 5, Qual Prec = 0 (although these settings shouldn't make a difference at all). One Click mode was chosen.

to add a little bit more spice to this problem, i connected my dvd recorder (model LiteOn LVW-5115GHC+) to the TV as well in order to test CC playback.

i started the test with chapter 2 (skipping the Warner Bros. logo) and amazingly, all my 3 dvd players (sony NS715P, panasonic PV-D7434S (DVD/VCR combo), and LiteOn LVW-5115GHC+) displayed the CC text MOST of the time (maybe 90%) although there were omissions when compared to the original. but what's more interesting is the fact that ALL 3 players displayed CC the SAME way, including the omissions/blanks.

this is interesting indeed because when converting "Star Trek V - The Final Frontier," all my 3 dvd players had different CC display patterns, ie. in the way how they omitted or showed the CC text:

my liteon would show CC here and there including some "lost" characters. my sony didn't do much better either, but the pattern was different. my panasonic wouldn't display anything at the beginning, but then showed a long block of CC before slowly disappearing into oblivion again. i only checked for a few minutes into the movie, but it seems they all had synchronization problems... :sly:

sorry, jdobbs. i wish things were a little bit simpler :( .

DD

ps: str8, what dvd player do YOU have? can anyone else confirm similar problems???

[jdobbs]

I've tested it in PowerDVD and on two JVCs, a Sony, and an ILO recorder. They all worked correctly. I'm at a loss... you are obviously doing something differently -- but since I've already encoded using your INI, I can't imagine what it could be.

I'll keep at it.

[jdobbs]

Ok... I decided I didn't do enough in-depth testing so I went back through my standalone players, so I redid "Startrek 5, The Final Frontier" last night. I was able to repeat the problem on the JVC (the first one I tried). It shows the subtitles -- but in the middle of a conversation some of the text may not show.

At least I have something to work with now and we know its not just your system.


[Edit] Sorry -- I was lazy and I should have tested it better. As is seemed to work the same, I started doing my follow-on tests using PowerDVD. It isn't the same. :o

[DocDragon]

Ok... I decided I didn't do enough in-depth testing so I went back through my standalone players, so I redid "Startrek 5, The Final Frontier" last night. I was able to repeat the problem on the JVC (the first one I tried). It shows the subtitles -- but in the middle of a conversation some of the text may not show.

At least I have something to work with now and we know its not just your system.


phew, thank goodness it's not just me! i woke up this morning thinking what else i could do. my next move would be to try playing the converted discs on my father's dvd player! at least i know now that my system is ok. :D

if i got mileage from running to my TV in the living room and back to my computer upstairs, i could have bought a ticket to hawaii *lol*. well, i definitely burned some calories. :p

thanks for your efforts!

DD

[jdobbs]

I fixed it. It was related to the field position at the beginning of some GOPs on a telecined source. It doesn't happen on standard 29.97fps NTSC streams... which also helps explain why I didn't see it earlier. PowerDVD apparently doesn't really pay attention to the field position -- and plays it alright.

[DocDragon]

finally good news: i just redid "ST V - the final frontier" with the new test version, and it seems that all my DVD players like the conversion now. CC is displayed nicely and as far as i can tell, they seem to be in sync, too.

i'll redo some SG-1s and will report back tomorrow.

good job and MUCHAS GRACIAS! :D

DD

[DocDragon]

off-topic:
since CC is (apparently) working, will CC be "on" as default from now on? that would be nice so that we don't have to dig in the depth of "rebuilder.ini" and "patch" some parameters -- it feels like hacking in the windows registry *lol*. or maybe, you could at least include a "CC on/off" option in one of the menu settings?

DD

[jdobbs]

I'll add the switch for v1.10 -- I want to make sure it's completely clean before making it the default.

[jptheripper]

again, absolutely wonderful

[DocDragon]

alrighty, i converted SG-1 S2 V1 and it turned out great! no pixelations and CC shows up fine! so far, tests look good with CCE.

i will do some testing with rejig tonight.

DD

[wlee]

ripped "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" with version 1.09 and CCE 2.67, compared with original, sometimes CC doesn't show up in zoom player :(

is there a way convert CC to subtitle?

[maksa]

I answered that. It is not easy, but is doable.
Regards....

[DocDragon]

ripped "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" with version 1.09 and CCE 2.67, compared with original, sometimes CC doesn't show up in zoom player :(

jdobbs already mentioned that software players might playback CC incorrectly. have you tried using your standalone DVD player?

DD

[wlee]

jdobbs already mentioned that software players might playback CC incorrectly. have you tried using your standalone DVD player?

DD
finally hooked my panny s77 with component video (hdmi doesn't seem to support CC at all), it appears to have the same issue as in zoom player :(, but i didn't compare side by side.

[jptheripper]

have you tried 1.09.2?

[jdobbs]

Oh... just noticed that. Yes, you definitely need to use v1.09.2. There were some major fixes related to CC in that version.

[wlee]

yes, v1.09.2 worked perfectly, great job :)

:thanks:

[Video Dude]

jdobbs,
Are closed captions stable in v1.09.2? Or do you recommend waiting for v1.10?

[jdobbs]

Yes they're stable. I've not received any CC error reports since releasing v1.09.2 (except one that was caused by the INI value not being set). In v1.09.3 (coming out very soon) it is out of beta and can be set on/off from the menu.

[DocDragon]

Yes they're stable. I've not received any CC error reports since releasing v1.09.2 (except one that was caused by the INI value not being set). In v1.09.3 (coming out very soon) it is out of beta and can be set on/off from the menu.
so far, i can confirm that i didn't find any further problems -- and i would be the first one to "complain" ;).

thanks jdobbs.

DD

[str8]

DocDragon, sorry I didn't respond to your earlier inquiry asking what type of DVD player I have. I moved right at the time you posted your question and hadn't been following the thread. It's nice to come back to see CC support is stable and will soon default to "ON" with the option to disable it via the interface.

[laserfan]

As I skimmed-thru this thread I can think of only two reasons NOT to enable CC support in DVD-RB:

1. The possibility (now apparently fairly remote) that a disc would have a CC scheme that jdobbs hasn't seen yet (resulting in a glitchy backup)

2. That CC data adds to the size of the program, detracting from "bits available" for the video conversion

My guess is that #2 is completely trivial by comparison to any other extras, and needn't be a concern. I couldn't find anything definitive about this so would appreciate others' feedback! Are there many folks here that now leave "Keep CC" enabled by default for all their backups?

[jdobbs]

The size of CC is exceptionally trivial... much less than the rounding factor of the calculations.

[laserfan]

The size of CC is exceptionally trivial...Just what I thought, thanks for the reply.

[DocDragon]

DocDragon, sorry I didn't respond to your earlier inquiry asking what type of DVD player I have. I moved right at the time you posted your question and hadn't been following the thread. It's nice to come back to see CC support is stable and will soon default to "ON" with the option to disable it via the interface.
i hope your move went smoothly and you've got your own "little" computer corner re-established :D .

i still have no problems with CC (which is good news).

jdobbs, what else you've got in your sleeve? PAL to NTSC conversion? or a breadmaker? *lol*

DD

[blutach]

Please stick to one thread. You have one open in Subtitles. Please re-read rule 8.

Anyway, read post 1 of this thread.

Regards