mono to stereo to 5.1....possible?

[jorel]

hy all!
:)
we have great guides and tools to convert stereo to 5.1!
i have one old Beatles album(vinyl) from Germany with amazing stereo and the original musics are mono in others vinyls albuns and cds but "don't know how" they did a great job with that old mono songs and the result is wonderful. is not only voices on the right and instruments on the left,they are "real" stereo where everything is separate in differents channels on every music.
then the question is: how can i separate the instruments and voices from mono sources like in that old German vinyl,is possible? don't matter if is hard to do.
the target is mono to stereo to 5.1 to burn in dvd audio!
one of my dreams is listen Beatles,Jimi Hendrix(third stone from the sun),and some more in 5.1.
thanks!
;)

[tenebrenz]

I would think the L.P. you have was created from the original 4-track recordings and mixed in stereo, instead of mono like the original mix.

As far as I am aware it is not possible to properly extract individual instruments from a stereo file*, let alone a mono one with no spatial imaging. That said, it is possible to create a fake 5.1 from a mono recording using frequency splitting, delays, reverbs, dynamic processing, etc. How good a job you do will depend upon how much time you have to tailor the sound. It will, though, never be better than the original mono and could be a lot worse.


*The soon to be released version of Adobe Audition (1.5) has a feature that will, apparently, allow you to extract sounds based on where they lie in the stereo field, how well this works is yet to be discovered and would no doubt vary on how the original was mixed.

[jorel]

tenebrenz,
i'm sorry to say...or better,i'm happy to say that the sources are mono
from the first Beatles albums ! in the dvds Beatles anthology,George Harrison speak when he knew stereo sound and was years after that first albums that was record in mono...the first Beatles original 4-track recordings was Rubber soul or Revolver but not the first albums.
i have : honey don't, cos i'm happy...with you, kansas city, and some others with magnific stereo and sounds good like Sgt Peppers LHCBand!
i don't know what they did but i have a real great stereo here! it's only in that German "remaster" version and is very old (round 35 years)!
if a mod signals ok, i can convert few seconds to mp3 and post here !
..if you want,pm to me your mail and i send this little seconds in mp3 256k!

;)

[hendrix]

Originally posted by jorel
tenebrenz,
the first Beatles original 4-track recordings was Rubber soul or Revolver but not the first albums.
actually "I Want To Hold Your Hand" was the first song The Beatles recorded with a 4 track...but anyway...i have the first 4 beatles CD in True Stereo not mono, plus rare True Stereo Capitol versions on CD, im an avid collector of Beatles tracks, I actually bought the Beatles Ed Sullivan Show DVD today...im currently making a Guns 'N Roses dvd for a friend w/a 5.1 mix from a stereo source using band extrapolation, -90 degree phase shifting, and center cancellation, im gonna try to make a 5.1 mix with some of the Beatles' songs to see how it comes out like, it may be harder with some of the early Beatles tracks (Please Please Me, Twist and Show, etc.) since the vocals wasn't in the Center but either the extreme left or right with the music on the other side, no real center sound to cancel out and phase shift but i will see how it turns out. I actually have Jimi Hendrix Electric Lady Land in Quadrophonic, but i cant play it since they dont make Quad LP players.

i use Vegas 5 and Pro Tools w/waves, virtos, qtools plug-ins..i have hundreds of VST, directx and RTAS plug-ins.

you can use Waves PS22 stereo maker plug-in to make true stereo mixes from mono sources but it's only for Pro Tools.

[jorel]

@ kempfand ( Andreas )
wow..thank you very much,i download the samples and i'm reading about CATT-F before i download to learn how it works.the samples from "binaural simulation" are amazing just like the link. ;)

@ hendrix
i have old and news(remastered) Beatles vinyls and cds but only after "help" are stereo,the olders are mono,only that old German vinyl is true stereo.i have "I Want To Hold Your Hand" and "she loves you" in german but voices on the right and instruments on the left but i don't call it "stereo".for example: "honey don't" have JL(acoustic guitar)on the right,PM(bass)on the left,GH(guitar)and RS(voice) on the center.the drums in the center too but some "strings" on the right and another on the left...true stereo,the instruments are in separated channels not like "I Want To Hold Your Hand" or "she loves you".the very strange is: the vinyl album "rock and roll",have some musics where the voices are separated from the instruments but the cds "rock and roll" are mono! :eek: i have some rares tracks too like 5 diferents takes from "i am the walrus",3 diferents of "help",2 diferents of "magical mistery tour"(John mock),2 diferents of "the inner light" and "i'll cry instead","and i love her","i feel fine","i call your name",3 of "this boy",2 of "yes it is","revolution"and some more.4 QS Quad LP of electric light orchestra(elo),dark side of the moom,rick wakeman and deep purple in rock and some others but the sound is not so good ..the middle frequences are "too high" and the sound "scream" so much!...hey,what i'm doing here? :eek: this post is too big and turnoing to off-topic!...but one thing i don't understand...why capitol records don't put this stereos musics on cds? very strange! :confused:
thanks for your hints and comments hendrix! :)

[hendrix]

Originally posted by jorel
but one thing i don't understand...why capitol records don't put this stereos musics on cds? very strange! :confused:
thanks for your hints and comments hendrix! :)
i read that george martin didn't officially create Stereo mixes for the first 4 albums - someone else did, thats the reason why Capitol only released mono mixed ones, but it would be nice if "Official" stereo mixes were to be released.

i have "Nothing is Real" which has many takes of Strawberry Fields Forever...you can make some fucky 5.1 mix with that one.

She Loves You is only available in Duophonic, a technique where engineers would use phase shifting to make mono mixes sound more stereo.

My 5.1 technique
Surround: i use QTools QXpander, Waves S1 Shuffler plug-ins to cut the center (usually vocals) then do a -90 degree phase shift

Center: use QTools QXpander, Waves S1 Shuffler to cut the left and right and keep the center

LFE: 120 low pass filter

Left and Right: original sound
-------------------------------------

QXpander is a great plug-in which cuts the center sound but of course you can still hear some of it so i then use Waves S1 Shuffler to widen the stereo image to cover up the center even more.

the reason why i keep the front left and right untouched is because i cut the left and right sounds for the center speaker thus creating more "Body" for the fronts

using -90 phase shifting for the surrounds gives it a more spacious feeling

[jorel]

hendrix,
about your 5.1 technique: is from stereo sources,right?
do you have the homepage links of that programs/plugins, please?
thanks in advance!

and did you saw the links and samples in the Andreas post?
:)

[hendrix]

i will send you a PM of all the programs and plug-ins i have
ya it's from stereo sources...but if you use PS22 Stereo Maker...you can make mono into True stereo and tweek it to 5.1 from there..PS22 Stereo Maker is a Pro Tools TDM plug-in only.

"and did you saw the links and samples in the Andreas post?"
no i didn't where is it?

[jorel]

first...thank you very much hendrix,i'm waiting for your pm!
:)
and you wrote:
"but if you use PS22 Stereo Maker...you can make mono into True stereo and tweek it to 5.1 from there..."
it's amazing!

second....Andreas is kempfand and the links are here in the 4th post of this thread,here too:
http://www.ramsete.com/aurora/waveconv.htm
http://www.catt.se/suite_music/index.htm
but please,read the details and great explanations from kempfand(Andreas)! ;)

thanks you in advance for your atention!
:)

[hendrix]

good reading...thanks

[hendrix]

@jorel...i sent you a pm