Some question about the quality...

[Indi]

Hello.

I just wonder about something. In the past year/years I have used dvdshrink. But for some days ago I so people talking about dvdrebuild and the quality was better than for eks. dvdshrink.
Then I try to make a backup of my Finding nemo disk with rebuild.
I do what the guide on the forum on doom9.org say. When the movie was complete. I see that the quality was not good at all. The dvdshrink have the same quality. Is it something that I do wrong? My setings in dvdrebuild is: I use the cce mode. This is checked: dynamically assign cell bitrates, Half-D1 and Half space for extras so that the extras material have bad quality to get the main movie better quality. Under AVS option this is checked: Convert2YUY2, Audiodub. Under advanced options I have just set the resize to Half D1 and applied to the smallest VTS. Under CCE options I have checked this CCE Sp v2.66+. Under advanced I have this value: VBR_Bias: 10, VBR_Passes: 3 and Quality_prec: 16.

Is it something wrong with my setings? What can I do to get a better quality on the movie? Should I use another program? and what program should I use?

I have checked the finding nemo that I done backup with dvdrebuilder with bitrate viewer and got this information: Bitrate is on 5500 that is not bad?
and the rest of the info:

Num. of picture read: 12
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML CBR
Resolution: 720*576
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 25.00
Nom. bitrate: 6000000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Progressive
Notes:

Is the Nom. bitrate: 6000000 Bit/Sec to low? Is it some other things that is wrong?


Thanks for all help I can get.

[jptheripper]

what are the max/avg/min bitrates after the prepare stage?

also personally i believe for a movie like this you need 4-5 passes

[Joergen]

With Nemo R2 you really should remove the unneeded languages from the menu, the unreferenced black stuff that disney usually puts in there and the unneeded languages. DVDRemake and DVDStripper are great for this. Also use half-d1-half-bitrate for the extras as they are pretty blurry.

added: the R2 Nemo is crammed with stuff to the extent that the movie itself is at the edge of quality. There are definetly some blockyish scenes in the movie straight off the shelf. This in mind, you can strip the menu and extras and get the movie to fit with your favourite language with no compression.

[DDogg]

Don't judge dvd-rb by one use on one problem DVD source. It is trying to cram all of the original disk into half the space and it should be able to do it better than any transcoder (when using CCE as the encoder).

If you wish to have the original disk intact, dvd-rb is about the best encode quality you are going to get. If you wish 'movie only' then either use a tool to remove all the stuff you don't want and then use dvd-rb, or use DVD2SVCD/DVD which only does the movie at the highest possible quality. Either method should give you about the best quality that can be obtained as each can use CCE.

There is no magic going on here. Each specific source requires a certain matched bitrate to return optimal results. If there is not enough room on the disk, and the encoding program cannot allocate enough bitrate to the encode while still making sure to fit the encode on the disk, then the quality of the encode will be less than desired. Some sources, for several reasons, can require bitrates that make it impossible to fit everything from the original disk onto half the space and still retain a a high quality. Solution is to attempt to put less stuff on the disk.I have checked the finding nemo that I done backup with dvdrebuilder with bitrate viewer and got this information: Bitrate is on 5500 that is not bad? That should be more than enough bitrate and I am confused when you say the quality is not good. Are you speaking about the extras, or the main movie? Please try to be more precise.Under advanced options I have just set the resize to Half D1 and applied to the smallest VTS. Whoa, why did you do this when you said you had already checked Half-D1 and Half space for extras already? Frankly, I don't know what happens in this case. It might foul up the calculations. Are you sure you did not check 1/2D1 in the advanced settings for the main movie? Describe in decent detail what exactly you are seeing when you descibe poor quality. Fuzzy? Blocks?

[Indi]

The bitrate is 5500. But the quality of the movie is bad.
I dont understand why the quality is bad, when the bitrate is 5500.
And yes I am speaking about the main movie. And when is about 1/2D1, I now that I checked just for the extras. I just do it for the VTS 11 that is the extras.

About the quality, is it Fuzzy around things and fishes.

When I do the backup with the dvd quality backup guide on dvdr-digest. I dont get the fuzzy around things and fishes. The movie is more clear. But take more time to do backup with this method. DVDrebuilder is faster.

[jptheripper]

rebuilder shouldnt be that much faster..

open the final dvd in ifoedit and tell us what the stats of the main movie vts are..

my guess is you half d1'd the main movie, dont do that
or that the max bitrate is 5500, not average. Average is what matters

[Indi]

I could not find the .ifo file for VTS_01_1, VTS_01_2, VTS_01_3, VTS_01_4 that is the main movie. Should this VTS have a .ifo file? If no, what .ifo file should I open then?

[alanuk]

The reason is because one of the extras is longer than the main title.

[Indi]

I maybe know what the problem is. Because when I use one of the program from the quality dvd backup guide on dvdr-digest, in the setings I set extra to be very low bitrate. And when I look over the movie structure, the program have set the main VTS to low bitrate to. It seems that the program think that the main movie was extra to. Maybe this was happend when I use the 1/2D1 on dvdrebuilder. Maybe DVDrebuilder thinks that the main movie was extra.
And about the info, I just looked up the VTS_01_0.IFO file, but I just found info about the menu.


Sorry for my very bad english.

[dave88]

No matter what tools you use, if the source material has to be compressed by almost half, you will get pretty poor results.

Try stripping as much extras/languages as you can with DVDremake, or the newer version of CloneDVD(set custom size for no compression)

[djan]

Are you sure VTS_11 is not the main movie ? :) I already saw this situation. And maybe like said alanuk, it's maybe because the extras are bigger than the main movie ? Who knows, but the bad quality as you say is not normal, there is a problem somewhere coming maybe from you. Try it without playing with half-d1 and stuffs and see the result. I prefer no extras than poor extras !

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by alanuk
The reason is because one of the extras is longer than the main title. DVD-RB makes the assumption that the longest VTS is the movie. There are rare instances where there may be a VTS for extras that is actually bigger. If that is the case, and you choose the Half-Half option -- the movie itself will be reduced to Half-D1.

I'd suggest you try it without the half-half option.

No matter what tools you use, if the source material has to be compressed by almost half, you will get pretty poor results. CCE can most often get excellent results even when cutting bitrates in half -- but it depends on the original. You will on occasion find a really long movie that is already stretched to it's best lowest reasonable bitrate -- and there's not much you can do.

One thing that I am sure of: A CCE encoding represents the best you will get at a predefined bitrate -- so if you see output that looks substandard when compared to another method there is usually something else wrong.

[Joergen]

Pearl Harbor SE R2 is one disc that cannot be properly put to one dvd-r until dual layer. But its a rare breed.

To get half-half for the extras in this freak situation, just do half-d1 in the avs options and use ECL Optimizer to half the bitrate.

[Indi]

Now I have tried another movie without the 1/2D1, and the quality is very good. The movie I tried to backup now, was monster inc. This movie is much smaller. This movie takes 6,5 gb but finding nemo takes 8,5 gb so that I think is it impossible to not do a 1/2D1 without losing much quality for the main movie. But the quality on the monster inc was very good, but not the audio. It was total fucked up. My setnings for monster inc was VBR_Bics 45, VBR_Passes 5 and Quality_Prec 16. Or else the setings is the same that I have with finding nemo, but this time I have not checked 1/2D. What has gone wrong this time?