Adobe Premiere and Field Order Question?

[section31]

Hi, I just imported a dv video from my dv camcorder into premiere edited it, exported it and then I deleted the project and source. I think i screwed up man...What field order am i suppost to export this? ...assuming i just export as dv not loosing any quality..Cause i just realized I did upper field first and I think it was suppose to be lower...cause when i author this to dvd, the video looks fairly good but like the titles for the credits don't look razor sharp....look like the field order is screwed up...

here is a screenshot of the setting i screwed up on.
http://imgo.us/temp/premiere.png
on that setting i set it to upperfield first...i'm a moron aren't I...

So if I did in fact screw up...is there any way to fix the problem...what would happen if i were to import that video back to premiere and export it again as dv with it set to lower field first...?????

[nicco]

I don't understand your problem very well, but DV is "bottom field first", so in Prem. export setting you have to set Bottom field first..

[Amit]

@section31
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you import the file you exported you will loose some quality. Depending on the DV Codec (which in the case of Premiere Pro is Main Concept) you will may be able to spot generation loss.

Repeated export/import of a DV file will deterioate the quality of the original source because of the way DV Codecs work.

You may not be able to spot the quality loss since this is called 1st generation import ie you exported to DV and then importing it back again. If you keep doing it and goes to 5th generation ie you exported and then imported and repeated this export import step 5 times, you will be able to see what I am talking about as DV Codecs show generation loss by the time you reach 5th generation.

Hope this information will be helpful to you.

-Amit

[section31]

Originally posted by nicco
I don't understand your problem very well, but DV is "bottom field first", so in Prem. export setting you have to set Bottom field first..

Ok...thats what i thought...so i did screw up... What don't you understand my problem. I exported my video top field first simple as that. Is there any way I can fix that?

@Amit
hm...never thought about it loosing quality like that, I suppose it would loose some quality... I doubt its anything that can be seen with the naked eye. Well, my problem remains once I exported it using top field first, there is no way to go back right? YOu guys never answered that question on my first post.

[nicco]

Ok: You exported your DV-Video with top-field first (mistake), you deleted your source files and premiere project, and now... you want to correct your mistake changing field order to your exported movie..That's right?

I think you can simply do it with this avisynth built-in filter: ComplementParity (see avisynth help for more info)

script: --------------
AVISource("filename")
ComplementParity()
----------------------

of course you have to re-encode the movie (for ex in Vdub), or you can open the movie in your final-editing application if it can open avs (for example If your final target is dvd and you use tmpg you can open avs script with the tmpg-read_avs plugin).

and...never delete premiere project and original files until you are sure that everything, but really everything, works ok!
bye

[section31]

Originally posted by nicco
Ok: You exported your DV-Video with top-field first (mistake), you deleted your source files and premiere project, and now... you want to correct your mistake changing field order to your exported movie..That's right?

I think you can simply do it with this avisynth built-in filter: ComplementParity (see avisynth help for more info)

script: --------------
AVISource("filename")
ComplementParity()
----------------------

of course you have to re-encode the movie (for ex in Vdub), or you can open the movie in your final-editing application if it can open avs (for example If your final target is dvd and you use tmpg you can open avs script with the tmpg-read_avs plugin).

and...never delete premiere project and original files until you are sure that everything, but really everything, works ok!
bye

cool, let me try that. thanks

[hendrix]

use ReStream to change the field order...you dont have to re-encode...it's in the downloads section under "Support Utils"

[bb]

ReStream won't help you to get the correct field order back in your DV AVI file, but it can change the field order flag in an MPEG-2 stream.

bb

[SomeJoe]

Without the original source DV file and Premiere project, you are very "up a creek without a paddle".

Premiere uses a particular codec for it's editing mode, and it will not let you export the base video in the opposite field order. Thus if you imported your DV into Premiere, and used Premiere's DV editing mode, then the video was imported, edited, and exported bottom field first, since that's how the codec assigns it.

Unfortunately, Premiere is not so smart when it comes to rendering titles, crawls, and effects. That's what the field order setting that you selected to upper field first tells Premiere. Since you set it to upper field first, what Premiere has done is render your credits crawl as upper field first while the underlying video is still bottom field first.

There is no way that you can fix this in the existing DV file. If you reverse field order with AVISynth or other tools, then the credits will look fine and the underlying video will then have incorrect field order.

The only thing you can do is import the existing DV into Premiere and use it as your base video, and recreate the titles, crawls, and effects creatively using black video, jumpbacks, or other footage to mask off the areas of the bad titles. The preferred option would be to get ahold of the original footage, recapture, and re-edit.

I suppose a very remote possibility might be to chop the file into chunks and reverse field order using AVISynth only on the segments that contain the crawls and effects, and then join them all back together. Depending on what the underlying video is, this might work - if the video underlying the credit crawl is a still, for example. But if it's moving video, it won't work. Further, to make the video appear seamless without a black field appearing, you'll need to deinterlace the first frame of each segment in order to add a duplicate field. And since reversing field order adds a duplicate field like that, each segment pushes the audio out of sync by another 1/60th of a second. Too much work if you ask me.

[section31]

Originally posted by SomeJoe
Without the original source DV file and Premiere project, you are very "up a creek without a paddle".

Premiere uses a particular codec for it's editing mode, and it will not let you export the base video in the opposite field order. Thus if you imported your DV into Premiere, and used Premiere's DV editing mode, then the video was imported, edited, and exported bottom field first, since that's how the codec assigns it.

Unfortunately, Premiere is not so smart when it comes to rendering titles, crawls, and effects. That's what the field order setting that you selected to upper field first tells Premiere. Since you set it to upper field first, what Premiere has done is render your credits crawl as upper field first while the underlying video is still bottom field first.

There is no way that you can fix this in the existing DV file. If you reverse field order with AVISynth or other tools, then the credits will look fine and the underlying video will then have incorrect field order.

The only thing you can do is import the existing DV into Premiere and use it as your base video, and recreate the titles, crawls, and effects creatively using black video, jumpbacks, or other footage to mask off the areas of the bad titles. The preferred option would be to get ahold of the original footage, recapture, and re-edit.

I suppose a very remote possibility might be to chop the file into chunks and reverse field order using AVISynth only on the segments that contain the crawls and effects, and then join them all back together. Depending on what the underlying video is, this might work - if the video underlying the credit crawl is a still, for example. But if it's moving video, it won't work. Further, to make the video appear seamless without a black field appearing, you'll need to deinterlace the first frame of each segment in order to add a duplicate field. And since reversing field order adds a duplicate field like that, each segment pushes the audio out of sync by another 1/60th of a second. Too much work if you ask me.

You are absolutely right....the titles are the ones that are really annoying me...Oh well..I went ahead and just said screw it...going to have to live with that.

[hendrix]

Originally posted by bb
ReStream won't help you to get the correct field order back in your DV AVI file, but it can change the field order flag in an MPEG-2 stream. bb
ya thats what i was talking about..i should've been more clear

[smok3]

well, the last chance is to deinterlace using some good deinterlacer.