DivX: What is the best option?

[castellanos]

Hi there. I am kind of new in Divx encodig and I have a few questions about it.
First of all, I've made a few tests with differents encoders: XviD MPEG-4 Codec and DivX 5.1.1 Codec. The thing is that the quality differs from each other, using the same bitrate on both of course, but also it seems to be that depends from the player too. I used Media Player, WinDVD, Nero Media Player and DivX Player.
Making the decoding with Divx 5.1.1 Codec and then playing with DivX Player, it seems to be the best option (but not with the other players!), not the case of XviD MPEG-4 that for instance, Nero Media Player can not play it at all. The question is, What is the best combination Encoder-Player?
In all the players (except DivX Player, choosing the option: Set aspect ratio TV 4:3 an then full screen) I couldn't see the movie in full screen mode, when I choose this option, the only thing I get is a little image in the middle of the screen. Can somebody tell me why?
The procces I use to convert the DVD into an AVI file was through DVDx, and then choosing the encoders.
My computer is quick enough: Pentium 4 2.66 Ghz, ATI RADEON Grafik chip IGP 345M.
Any answers?
Thanks.

[bond]

xvid and divx5 are all mpeg-4 compliant encoders, therefore every mpeg-4 decoder/player should be able to play them (outputting exactly the same quality!)...

i say "should" because there are problems which are caused by the outdated avi container which most people still use

still some decoders/players offer workarounds solving such problems, from which the best imho is ffdshow atm. it can be used in any dshow based player (eg bsplayer, media player classic, zoomplayer, wmp9 aso...)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi castellanos,

I'm curious as to why Nero's Media Player can't play XviD files. Their ShowTime Player has no such problems. And with the correct NeVideo.ax file installed, it can even correctly display XviD and 3ivX streams which have been encoded with anamorphic signalling!

BS player makes it very easy for the user to switch between 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio, quite a bit easier than Media Player Classic.

For me, the new beta versions of XviD generate great looking encodes, with or without b-frames. So I have to say that I'm no longer using DivX at the moment... It also helps that XviD is free :D

Cheers

[castellanos]

Thanks for you answer, anyway, it is still not clear for me, What I have to do if I want to see the movie in full screen mode, if use the Windows Media Player, for example?
Actually, The Nero Media Player was able to play only the sound... not the video and I don't know why.
May be I have an old version of XviD?
Anyway I use a free version of DivX pro.
Any help?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
Thanks for you answer, anyway, it is still not clear for me, What I have to do if I want to see the movie in full screen mode, if use the Windows Media Player, for example! I guess to answer this question we would first have to know how you've generated your encodes. For instance, if you crop and resize what was the PAR of your source.

Many people here on the forum crop and resize DVD sources that have an PAR of 2.35:1. When doing so, it's vital such encodes are encoded using the correct ratio of horizontal and vertical pixels. Say 640x272, 672x288 or 720x304 for example.

Cheers

[bond]

if you used xvid to encode the stream, than you need to install the latest xvid OR divx5 OR ffdshow OR 3ivx codec

each of them should be able to decode xvid in any dshow based player, like wmp (in some decoders you need to tick "xvid" to make them decode xvid first)

if they dont play the file than it is not a mpeg-4 stream or br0ken

[castellanos]

Thanks all you guys for the answers! Now the question is: I've got the DivX encoder together with the player (free version) and I wanted to re-size the avi file, in order to have a bigger screen... but it was no possible, the option was block out. Is it because the free version? or something in the settings?
Thanks!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
...I wanted to re-size the avi file, in order to have a bigger screen... but it was no possible, the option was block out. Is it because the free version? or something in the settings?
Thanks! Please confirm which media player are you using now. Is it still DivX's media player?

Cheers

[castellanos]

Well, actually with DivX it is possible to see tha avi file in full screen mode, changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 TV, but not in the others madia players.
I would like to play the avi with WinDVD or Win Media Player XP (The original one, not the Media Player Classics).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
Well, actually with DivX it is possible to see tha avi file in full screen mode, changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 TV, but not in the others madia players.
I would like to play the avi with WinDVD or Win Media Player XP (The original one, not the Media Player Classics). What do you mean by full screen? It's easy to get confused as some movie images are not meant to completely fill a 4:3 screen. Most movies today have picture aspect ratios of either 1.85:1 or 2.35:1. Meaning that at around 39% or 76% (respectively) of the frame when shown on an 4:3 display is black (matte) bars!

[castellanos]

Well, I've made a test with DivX or Xdiv, whatever, and talking about the players I have (Win Media Player XP, WinDVD and Nero media player) when I try to get full screen I only get an image in the middle of the screen (not big enough... or at least, not as you see, when you play with DivX player in TV 4:3 mode). That's why I wanted to re-size the avi file.
In the case of Win. Media Player XP or Nero MP, it is right mouse click and select full screen, in Win DVD is just making the window bigger...but, as I said above, just a square in the middle of the screen.
I would really like to have widescreen.

[SeeMoreDigital]

So are you saying that the image does not fill your 4:3 screen from left to right?

I guess you understand that your 1.77:1, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 encodes will not fill your 4:3 screen from top to bottom!

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

Capture a sample frame of your video to make the confusion an end !!!

Here (http://www.imageshack.us/) you find some free hosting... ;)


Bye

[castellanos]

SeeMoreDigital:
Well, How can I explain you... What I get is more or less like that:

I-------------------I
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIII--------IIIIIIIII
IIIIIIII--------IIIIIIIII
IIIIIIII--------IIIIIIIII
IIIIIIII--------IIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
I-------------------I


The big square is my TFT display 15'', and the little square is what I get any time I want to see the avi file with Win. Media Player, Win DVD or Nero Media Player, even if I select full screen mode.
What I would like is to see the avi file exactly as the original DVD, widescreen, that's mean full from left to right and two black bars: Top and bottom.
Sorry about my ignorance but those numbers you told me... I have no idea what they mean.

Soulhunter:
I am sorry, but I don't know what is that link for.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by castellanos
I am sorry, but I don't know what is that link for.
There you can upload a screenshot/capture of your video to post/show it here... ;)


Also open the file in VDub and tell us it's framesize !!!

- VDub -> File -> File information -> Frame size


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
What I would like is to see the avi file exactly as the original DVD, widescreen, that's mean full from left to right and two black bars: Top and bottom.
Sorry about my ignorance but those numbers you told me... I have no idea what they mean. I think you need to do a bit of reading up about aspect ratios along with how images are stored on DVD's.

For example, if you encoded an DVD with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1, this is how it will appear on an 4:3 TV/PC monitor.
Note, how big the black bands (mattes) are: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/2.35.1_image_on_an_4.3_monitor.JPG


And this is how an 2.35:1 image appears on an 16:9 TV/PC monitor. Note again, how big the black bands (mattes) are: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/2.35.1_image_on_an_16.9_monitor.JPG


Can you see the differences between the 4:3 and 16:9 images?

Cheers

[castellanos]

Sorry, I have enough experiance doing DVD back ups, and of course I know about the aspect ratios 16:9 and 4:3, what I did not know is that 2.35:1 is the same as 4:3... sorry about that.
Anyway, I am going to make a few tests more, I realize already that if I want to re-size the avi file, I have to choose 460x576, in order to have the full screen (Widescreen), and not 420x576 as the original DVD is.
I will make more tests.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
...what I did not know is that 2.35:1 is the same as 4:3... sorry about that. It's not! 2.35:1 is the Picture Aspect Ratio (PAR). 4:3 is the Display Aspect Ratio (DAR).

It's quite vital that you understand about PAR, especially when generating cropped and resized encodes otherwise you will have problems when playing them back.

Originally posted by castellanos
...Anyway, I am going to make a few tests more, I realize already that if I want to re-size the avi file, I have to choose 460x576, in order to have the full screen (Widescreen), and not 420x576 as the original DVD is.. No this is not so either! A PAL DVD always has a Frame Aspect Ratio of 720x576 and an NTSC DVD always has a Frame Aspect Ratio of 720x480. This is regardless of the PAR of the image you see on your monitor.

Where you may be getting confused is understanding that all images are stored on an DVD 'anamorphicly' ie: the picture is 'squashed' up!

Below is an example of how an 2.35:1 image appears when it's stored on an 720x480 NTSC DVD: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/2.35.1_720x480_image.jpg

The only reason why you see the source DVD image correctly on your PC monitor is because your software player knows the DAR of your monitor and makes the necessary adjustments. This is also why you have to program a DVD stand-alone player, to let it know what size TV screen it's connected too ie: 4:3 or 16:9.

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

To make the confusion complete, here are some links... ;)

- Link 1 (http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/)

- Link 2 (http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/aspectratios.htm)

- Link 3 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42708)


Bye

[castellanos]

Well, I am really sorry about my ignorance... I was reading a few articles and I'm getting the idea more or less. (Thanks for the links "Soulhunter").
In order to get more information, but certainly not bothering anyone... specially "SeeMoreDigital" (I really apreciate your help). The idea is to get a DivX, to be played in a computer, and why not in a standard DVD player (I personally don't have one, my tests are only in the computer!). But if I want to create that, and play it anywhere, I would like to know the right settings.
I've got a DVD 16:9 (720x576), when I make the encoding to an avi, should I keep that resolution and aspect ratio? I mean, if I want to play it after on a standard DVD player?
On DVDx I have many options:
Letter box 4:3
Medium 4:3
Pan Scan 4:3
Full 16:9 or 4:3 input
I've tried with "Letter box 4:3", the result is good, but being the original 16:9 I am not sure if I can play it after on a standard DVD player.

[Soulhunter]

DVDx, nice for VCD/SVCD encoding, but for MPEG4... :rolleyes:

I would recommend AutoGK, maybe even GordianKnot for thus stuff !!!


Bye

[castellanos]

Well, thanks for the advice, anyway I don't like to have that kind of programs like AutoGK or DVD2SVCD, they use a combinations of many programs instead of doing the entire job alone, in the case of DVDx, is it self and DivX, and does it... and very simple to use I must add.
This is just my idea, nothing personal, just a caprice may be, I am sure that AutoGK is a very good tool.
However, I would like to know (as I said it before) which kind of setting should I use, in order to have a standard avi (Standard means, to be played anywhere, PC or DVD players).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
...Standard means, to be played anywhere, PC or DVD players. Remember, you will be able to play back Mpeg4 (DivX, XviD, 3ivX etc) AVI encodes in an DVD/Mpeg4 capable standalone player but not in a normal DVD player.

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by castellanos
Well, thanks for the advice, anyway I don't like to have that kind of programs like AutoGK or DVD2SVCD, they use a combinations of many programs instead of doing the entire job alone, in the case of DVDx, is it self and DivX, and does it... and very simple to use I must add.well the tools, like autogk combine the best tools out there to one, which should also affect the quality in a positive way

However, I would like to know (as I said it before) which kind of setting should I use, in order to have a standard avi (Standard means, to be played anywhere, PC or DVD players)if you want a standard, avi is not the way to go
there is nothing less standardized than storing mpeg-4 in avi

therefore the settings you want to choose also depend on the specific mpeg-4 standalone player you want to be compatible with
some support qpel, gmc some not, some need packed bitstream with more than 1 b-frames, some b0rk on such files aso...

[castellanos]

Good, that's mean if a choose 760x576 as a resolution for the new re-sized avi, will it work in a compatible DivX and DVD player?
Because in the computer works fine.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
Good, that's mean if a choose 760x576 as a resolution for the new re-sized avi, will it work in a compatible DivX and DVD player?
Because in the computer works fine. Errr no!

Current DVD/Mpeg4 stand alone players can only playback encodes using a maximum 'anamorphic' image pixel frame size of 720x576 (414,720 total pixels). This is due to current chipset design specifications.

Also, many current DVD/Mpeg4 stand alone players don't like odd image pixel ratio sizes. Off the top of my head I don't know what these sizes are, however if you are interested there are quite a few posts about the subject already on the forum.

castellanos, I'm interested as to why you would want to use such an weird image pixel frame size in the first place?

Cheers

[castellanos]

Ah! I apreciate very much your help SeeMoreDigital, you are a very big help, anyway, do you want to know why a stupid guy like me is so stupid? I would really want to know the answer!
Out of joke: I've tried many times, when I select 720x576 I get a very nice format on the screen, with two black bars up and down, but left to rigth is not good, it does not get the whole screen (Talking about left to right) that's why I tried to make it a little wider, choosing 760x576.
That's the only reason.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
...I've tried many times, when I select 720x576 I get a very nice format on the screen, with two black bars up and down, but left to rigth is not good, it does not get the whole screen (Talking about left to right) that's why I tried to make it a little wider, choosing 760x576.
That's the only reason. The reason why your 720x576 encode does not look right on your screen is because you have encoded it 'anamorphicly' ie: the same as it is stored on an DVD.

If you want to view 720x576 encodes correctly in say Windows MediaPlayer 9 (WMP9) , one way you can do it would be to go to: DivX Decoder Properties | Quality Settings | Aspect Ratio | and select '16:9' instead of 'Maintain Original' | Apply | OK |

After doing this all your DivX 720x576 'anamorphic' encodes should appear how you want them too in WMP9. Please remember, that this is not an 'full time' solution for 'all' you DivX encodes, so you will have to remember to adjust the setting back to 'Maintain Original'.

Hey castellanos, I don't mind helping you so don't feel embarrassed to ask.. and I don't think you're stupid. Some of this so called described 'basic info' is not that easy to understand, especially if English is not your first language, and much of what is written quite often gets a little too technical...

In my opinion, in order to generate correctly sized encodes, it's vital that you first understand how the image is stored on the DVD. So lets begin with: 'What is an Anamorphic image'.


Video images are stored on an DVD 'anamorphicly'. If you look up the meaning of the word 'anamorphic' in the dictionary. It will say something like: "a distorted image that appears to look normal when viewed".

In the case of a DVD image, this means that although the image you see looks normal on your TV or PC screen. It is not stored like this on the disc!

When a 16:9 (1.77:1) image is stored on an PAL DVD (using all of it's 720x576 pixels), it actually looks 'squashed up/distorted' (ie: anamorphic'). Like this: -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/Fig_03a.jpg


However, when that same image is viewed via an 4:3 TV or PC monitor it should look like this (ie: 'normal'): -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/Fig_04a.jpg


And if that same image is viewed via an 16:9 TV or PC monitor it should look like this (ie: 'normal'): -

http://82.2.167.24/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/Fig_05a.jpg

Another thing you should understand is that a Mpeg2 DVD stream is very clever, as it's able to store 'anamorphic signalling' information in it's video stream. And it's this signalling information that's able to tell your software media player or TV screen to adjust the shape of the picture, automatically.

Unfortunately DivX Mpeg4 can't carry this 'anamorphic signalling' information, which is why you will have to adjust the shape of the picture, manually.

Anyway, I hope you have a better understanding about what an 'anamorphic' DVD image looks like?

Cheers

[castellanos]

Fantastic! really nice. That was exactly what I was waiting for. Now I understand why I didn't get the full screen.
I apreciate very much your help, it should be an example for this forum too, I mean, the way you helped me.
I think for the moment I got all the information I need.
Again, thank you very much.

[bond]

nice samples SMD :)

[jggimi]

:goodpost: Doesn't do justice to your terrific post, SeeMore! Great job!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks guys... :D

[Soulhunter]

Btw, do you know where to get some thus "tv-test" pics in hi-resolution ???


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Btw, do you know where to get some thus "tv-test" pics in hi-resolution ??? I got the main ones from here: -

http://www.noctua.demon.co.uk/testpatterns/testpatterns.html

But I had to resize them using HyperSnap!

Cheers

[Soulhunter]

Thanks !!!

[castellanos]

Here I go again: I've made a back up from a very short movie (22 min.) on DivX. The quality is very good. I played the avi file with DivX player from the HD and everything was ok, then I burned the disk and when I play it from the CD, it is a little jerky.
But this only happen with the DivX player.
Can somebody tell me why?

[obieobieobie]

Maybe your CD-ROM can't keep up with the bitrate of the video stream.

Before you start thinking that your CD-ROM sucks, please check and see if Ultra DMA is enabled for the drive(s).

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by castellanos
I played the avi file with DivX player from the HD and everything was ok, then I burned the disk and when I play it from the CD, it is a little jerky.
- Try to enable DMA mode of your drive...

- Make sure that the CD drive not shares IDE channel with your HD !!!

- Set the drives cache size to maximum...

- Make sure that you dive is set to Quad speed or higher !!!

- Make sure that the disc is works elsewhere...


Bye

[castellanos]

Well, I tell again that this only happen with the DivX player, not with WMP or WinDVD or NeroMP.
Anyway, I'm sorry for that but, I really do not remember where I find that properties for the DVD-ROM...:rolleyes:
Please can you tell me where I select the DMA and so on in windows XP?
Thanks.

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by castellanos
Anyway, I'm sorry for that but, I really do not remember where I find that properties for the DVD-ROM...:rolleyes:
IIRC... System -> Performance -> File System -> CD-ROM !!!


Bye

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by castellanos
Well, I tell again that this only happen with the DivX player, not with WMP or WinDVD or NeroMP. Thinking back. I remember experiencing what you are now with the DivX player!

Are you using the newest version of the DivX codec and their player?

I think I'm right in saying that DivX's own player is not an DirectShow based player and as such does not even use DivX's own (divxdec.ax) DirectShow filter during playback of Mpeg4 files. If so this would explain why all your DirectShow based players (such as WMP, WinDVD, NeroMP etc) can play your encodes without stuttering!

Personally speaking I would not recommend using a non DirectShow based player!

I hope that helps to explain your predicament?

Cheers

[castellanos]

Thanks Soulhunter for the advice...sorry, I didn't remember.

Good SeeMoreDigital! I think that is exactly the point I was looking for at the bigining of this discussion, when I set "DivX: What is the best option?"
When I see a movie decoded by DivX on the DivX player, the quality is better than those who use DirectShow (WMP, WinDVD etc.) but the DivX player has that problem when I play the avi from the CD...
Anyway, I've installed a "BigFix1.6b.exe" (Downloaded from the DivX site) and now WMD and WinDVD have a better quality... I didn't try again to play the avi file from the CD, on the DivX player yet, but it may come some impovements... I hope.
The DivX version I have is 5.1.1, I think is the last one.
Thanks!

[SeeMoreDigital]

For all those who may be interested. I've generated some more information (and pictures) with regards to 'anamorphic' encoding on my web site, here: -

http://SeeMoreDigital.net/03_Video_Info.html


Cheers

[castellanos]

Well SeeMoreDigital, You were rigth from the beginning. After I made a few tests, I've tried again to play an avi file from the CD and finally the best option is: BS Player!
Thank you very much!!