Horizontal stripes on standalone replay

[SanatClaus]

Hi all Xvid gurus,

I have got a Hola! RC4 problem with standalone replay (Kiss DP-500, 2.8.3). I get plenty of horizontal stripes when objects moves in the horizontal direction, even at moderate speed. It is so annoying that it is not enjoyable to watch, so I have to reverted to RC3. I did not get much of this with RC3 or any earlier version, only a little under very special conditions (for example text moving horizontally against a monochrome background).

I only use single pass encode in realtime recording TV-shows. I have experimented with different settings but with identical result except if I enable Interlaced Encoding which instead gives jumpy/stuttery replay on the standalone which is equally hard to watch.

None of this happens when I replay on my PC with RC4 (latest BS-player with ffdshow).

My settings are default + Bframes 2/1.5/0.75, Motion search precision = 5, VHQ = 0 , Turbo on, Target bitrate 1400 kbps at 640 x 480 (all to allow my AMD 2400+ to encode in realtime).

I can mail an example of the horizontal stripes (jpeg or avi), but I do not know how to do that on this forum (I dont have a webserver to
store the examples on).

/Regards SantaClaus

[seewen]

Stupid question, but what filter did you use to deinterlace ?
Beccause your problem sounds really like a bad deinterlaced capture.

I've got a KISS player too, and I don't have this problem.

[SanatClaus]

I ticked Interlaced Encoding on the Profile @ Level more... page in the RC4 codecs configuration menu, no separate filter. I use LeadTek Expert WinFast program to record, which does not allow separate filters. It however have it's own interlace filtering.

Note, the horizontal stripes are, may be 8 pixels high and only found on horizontally moving objects in particular, not the rest of the picture. The faster the object moves the worse it gets. It certainly looks like a interlace problem.

BTW, how can I include a jpeg sample in my post?

---------------------------EDIT------------------------------

After reconsidering the problem: If it is a interlace problem, why then does it only affect the portion/object of the picture that is moving, may be just a small part of the picture and why are the stripes several pixels high and not every second line?

So may be it is not an interlace problem after all?

-------------------------------------------------------------


/Regards, SantaClaus

[SanatClaus]

I managed to fix a webserver account and here are some examples of the horizontal stripes:

Example1 (http://home.swipnet.se/%7Ew-156942/images/Image0423-1026(S-Video).jpg) and example2 (http://home.swipnet.se/%7Ew-156942/images/Image0423-1028(S-Video).jpg) and example3 (http://home.swipnet.se/%7Ew-156942/images/Image0423-1028(S-Video)%5b4%5d.jpg)

/Regards Santa

[Leak]

Originally posted by SanatClaus
I managed to fix a webserver account and here are some examples of the horizontal stripes.

Hmmm... looks like the player thought the video is progressive and scaled the image without seperating the fields first...

Just a guess.

np: Autechre - Uviol (Confield)

[SanatClaus]

Note, this does not happen with RC3 (or if it happens, it its hardly noticeable, or at least not annoying). RC3 is significantly better in this respect.

/Santa

[ObiKenobi]

Originally posted by SanatClaus
After reconsidering the problem: If it is a interlace problem, why then does it only affect the portion/object of the picture that is moving, may be just a small part of the picture and why are the stripes several pixels high and not every second line?

Because that's exactly when you will see interlace lines as they aren't visible in static scenes, but only when there is motion.

[seewen]

It seems clear that the video is bad (if not at all) deinterlaced.

From my experience, it's better to deinterlace the video and encode it as progressive, than let it interlaced and encode it as interlaced (for KISS standalones).

So you should really use a codec like VBLE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53305&highlight=vble), HuffYuv or MJPEG to capture your video (Keep original resolution, don't use any filters) in WinFAST.
(An other cool application for WinFast Capture cards is called VIRTUAL VCR: http://www.digtv.ws/)

Then you deinterlace it properly with TomsMoComp or Telecide/Decimate, depending of your source (I said TomsMoComp beccause it's my favorite for PAL interlaced movies. But FieldDeinterlace, KernelDeinterlace, aDeint, SeparateFields.SelectEven(), GreedyHMA, etc.. Are other good possibilities).

Or you can use VirtualDub if you don't like Avisynth.

And the you encode your movie in XviD/DivX (without choosing "interlaced").

You'll see that the result is excellent (IF you deinterlaced correctly ;) ).

Bye

Decomb/FieldDeinterlace/KernelDeint: http://neuron2.net/
TomsMoComp/GreedyHMA: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~trbarry/
aDeint: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~trbarry/

[SanatClaus]

Thank you Seewen for your reply,

The problem is that I had hoped to be able to use my capture card and my computer (AMD 2400+) as a replacement for my VCR and record TV shows in real time on the fly in order to be able to watch them little later and then throw them away. It is therefore not so convenient if I must post process all show, especially not at a fraction of the bit rate.

I must omit however that I cannot record with mp3 compression in real time now anyway (with Fraunhofer, the only mp3 codec I can get to work, lame hangs the system). The way I do it now is that I record uncomressed and uses VDub afterwards. If I compress at 128 kbs in realtime I get a constant audio/video skew (audio becomes succesive more and more late). This is only shows up on the Kiss and in VDub but not if I replay with BsPlayer. I can corrected it if I stretch the audio 99.77% :confused:. So I compress in Vdub afterward anyway, but it only takes about 15 min per 1 1/2 hour show.

Everything works reasonably well if it wasn't for the interlace lines.
It may also have to do with resizing at playback. I record at 620x480 and if the transmission is in wide screen the Kiss is forced to resize and I think it is not very good at doing this. In these circumstances the interlace lines seems greatly increase.


The snapshot earlier has passed through the Kiss and into my capture card a second time. The pictures is very representative how it looks on the TV screen.

/Regards Santa

[seewen]

I'm not very experienced in TVCapture. I have a "poor" LeadTek WinFast XP.
And VirtualDub doesn't works well with it.

I noticed that you use 620x480 for resolution. It's a very bad idea. 620 is not mod 16.. Not even mod 8.
The Kiss doesn't like it very much. You should use a resolution of 624x480, or 608x448 (or 512, etc.. Mod 16).

But if you don't want to use the "lossless step" you can use VirtualDub to capture, and use vdub Deinterlace filters during capture. But if you have a LeadTek card, I bet you cannot use a resolution higher than 320x240 (of course you can use a Resize filters... ).

And for the Audio I cannot help you. I always use WAV and then I compress it.
But there is an other codec that you can use. It's called "Lame ACM" (can be used in Vdub, WinFast, etc.. ). Lame ACM 3.96: http://www.softpedia.com/public/cat/11/1/2/11-1-2-70.shtml
(there are other versions, like Lame ACM 0.9. I don't know which one is the "best").

But again. With a LeadTek TVCapture Card, if you want good quality (beccause you want to keep the Capture a long time), you really should spend 2-3 hours more and use a lossless codec first.

Bye