RETURN OF Last fifth of DVD unreadable: Burner-, Nero-, or PC-related?

[dragonstout]

I just got a new 50-pack of Memorexes from amazon.com, and already I've made 6 coasters (of the 9 I've tried!). Is it possible to somehow get this stack replaced? How can they possibly sell such low-quality media?
Also, if I'm willing to pay a max of about $1.50 a DVD if I'm guaranteed they won't be coasters, what would be the best brand to buy? Thank you!
Andy

[digitalman]

Memorex DVD+R's are a great brand. I never had any issues with any package I bought. I have some that are a year old, and still play perfectly. I work with someone who bought a new cheap DVD burner and they immediately said it was the junk media they used, because he had burned about five disks with another brand, and did not have an issue. Well it turned out it was his DVD burner that was the problem. It was just a coincidence that the DVD burner died at the same time he switched media.

[Angelus]

I have Memorex DVD+R's I got from Best Buy, 50 for $50. I also got some about 1 1/2 months ago. I have never burnt a coaster using my Lite-On 811S (really a 411s, new firmware for 811s :D ). I always use DVD Decryptor to burn DVD's, and use Roxio 7 when I need to burn files to disk.

[dragonstout]

Everyone's right; I just checked using an imation disk, and the same thing happened (the last 20 minutes were unplayable). What could be wrong? I also just changed the version of Nero I have; I'm thinking that's probably it, because the 3 DVDs which burned okay were burned using DVD Decrypter. However, DVD Decrypter won't burn my folder of VOBs, right? So what burning software should I use? Thank you very much!
Andy

[Kedirekin]

You can use ImageTools Classic to turn your folder of VOBs into an ISO that you can burn with DVDDecrypter. This is my favorite way to burn DVDs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use Nero - or that you should. I only want to let you know there is a way to burn the folder of VOBs with DVDDecrypter (indirectly).

Note that ImageTools Classic requires that the VOB files be in a folder named VIDEO_TS. So (for example) if your VOBs are in C:\dvds\backup0422, create a new directory c:\dvds\backup0422\VIDEO_TS and move all your VOBs into it, then use ImageTools to make an ISO image of C:\dvds\backup0422.

[dragonstout]

Okay, now I'm completely confused.

I updated Nero to 6.3.1.6, and it still didn't work.
So then I tried another movie, which I had to compress, leaving me with an iso for DVD Decrypter, and when I burned it, I got the same problem (that, near the end of the movie (sometimes even a half hour before hte end of the movie), the disc freezes when I play it in PowerDVD and it says that the DVD may be damaged).

What could be wrong? It's a brand-new (less than a month old) 811s Lite-On burner; I've tried a bunch of Memorex and 1 imation disk; all the dysfunctional Memorexes are from a new 50-pack I just got, at the same time as I installed an older version (6.0.0.0) of Nero; one of the movies that messed up was shrunk with DVDShrink, one was shrunk with InstantCopy 8, and one was just stripped of the extras using DVDFab, so it's not that stuff; and none of the 90 backups I ever made before a couple days ago have had any problems.

What's going on? You guys are great, thank you so much for your help.

Andy

[dragonstout]

I've analyzed a couple of the DVDs using KProbe; the pictures it shows, for PI and PO, show nothing for the first 4/5, and then filled practically to the top with red/blue for the last 4/5. Does this help determine what the problem is?
Andy

[dragonstout]

I uninstalled Nero and tried making a backup using DVD Decrypter; problem not solved.

I'm fairly certain that the problem is with Nero, and not with my drive; does Nero reconfigure my burning settings or interfere with Decrypter, or something like that? If so, how can it be fixed?

(Also, how can I change the title of the thread, now that I know it's not the Memorexes?)
Andy

[Kedirekin]

I could be wrong, but if the problem persists with DVDDecrypter, I don't see how it could be a problem with Nero. DVDDecrypter does low level communication with the drive. I don't think Decrypter would use any drivers or anything that Nero would install, so it shouldn't be impacted by anything Nero does.

Based on your KProbe results, the problem seems to be either media or burning related. The fact that you're seeing problems on different types of media, and with media that you've had success with in the past, indicates it's burning related.

Frankly, based on what you've reported (problem happens regardless of media or burning software used, problems verifiable using KProbe) this sounds like a problem with your burner, or (less likely) a problem with the PC the burner is installed in.
[Aside: I'd say it's very unlikely to be the PC, but ~4/5 ths means burning is starting to fail at about 4 GB, which is kind of a magical number. You might want to listen to your burner and see if it the sounds that it makes change distinctly when about 80% complete. Perhaps the PC is mucking up and the burner is dropping into the equivalent of burn-proof at about 4 GB.]

PS. To change the title of the thread, click the edit button on the very first post. There you'll be able to edit the subject line that's used as the thread title.

[dragonstout]

I guess I just feel like it would be too big a coincidence that the burner died immediately after I installed Nero 6.0.0.0; after I installed that version of Nero I burned a coaster using Nero, followed by a perfect DVD using DVD Decrypter, followed by another coaster with Nero, then another perfect DVD using Decrypter, after which I've burned nothing but coasters, at first using Nero 10 times in a row but now trying Decrypter and finding that that's failing too.

I've watched a few times while it burns, and usually the both buffers go haywire at around 83%, sometimes earlier; does this help?

The burner is a Lite-On 811s, which bought under a month ago; I can have it replaced if it really is a problem with the burner, but I want to make sure that that's truly where the problem is.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

[Kedirekin]

The buffers go nuts at 83%? That sounds more and more like the PC is having problems feeding data to the drive once you go beyond 4 GB (well 3,900,000,000 bytes anyway). Mind you, I have no idea why it would do that, but I've seen stranger things.

Alternatively it might be that the drive is having problems writing and refusing to accept data.

I can't remember how DVDDecrypter does it's buffers - is the buffer normally full during burning, and starts to empty as you reach 83%, or the other way around? If it's normally full and starts to empty, that says to me that the PC isn't feeding data to the program fast enough.

I feel for you. This doesn't sound like an easy problem to diagnose, let alone fix.

[dragonstout]

With DVD Decrypter, the buffer's full and then starts emptying and refilling when it goes crazy; I don't remember how it is with Nero, but the buffer went crazy with Nero, too.

[dragonstout]

I just tried another with Decrypter; the movie was around 3.18 GB.

Near the very beginning, the buffer went down to 50% and oscillated around there, down to 30 and up to 70, for about 5-10 seconds. After that, everything was fine, until at 85%, at which point it dropped down to 90% for only about a half second.

At first when I played it, it seemed to be fine; but after analyzing with KProbe and checking more carefully, I found that it is indeed messed up, though only for the last couple minutes of the credits (which is fine in this case, but that means the problem isn't fixed).

[SomeJoe]

From all of what you've said so far, I'm thinking either:

1. Low-level driver/software issue.
2. Hardware problem.

Installing Nero may have done something to your IDE setup. I'd look to make sure you have the proper IDE device driver still installed (reinstall your motherboard chipset drivers if you suspect otherwise), make sure that DMA is enabled everywhere (especially check this carefully - oscillating buffer levels in DVD Decrypter can be indicative of non-DMA transfers). Also, I believe Nero might install an ASPI layer, and with 6.0.0.0 it might be old. Either update it or remove it.

The other problem might be hardware, and since your setup has been working in the past, that would rule out things like cabling or master/slave issues. i.e. the drive might have broke. Might need to temporarily put a known good DVD burner in there on that same IDE interface and try to burn with it. If it fails with the same symptoms, it's almost certain that the problem is driver-related.

[dragonstout]

I'll try borrowing someone else's burner to see if that's the problem; I tried the other things suggested, and nothing helped.

During the last burn, of the same 3.18 GB movie, the buffer went nuts throughout most of the burn, but oddly enough, is the first playable DVD I've made recently; some nasty skips during the credits, but at least it doesn't crash my player. The KProbe graph's the same as always, though.

[carthoris]

If your system worked fine before the memorex DVD`s the problem is the burner firmware combination.

I have two burners one is a NEC2500A stock firmware 1.06 and a pioneer 106 firmware 1.07. I purchased a 50 pack of Immation DVD-r which were Ritek G03`s. These disks will not burn a playable DVD in my NEC and fail a scan with Nero cdspeed 210. When I use them in the pioneer they are perfect. Same thing happened with Ritek G04`s.

I also had Fuji DVD-r ritek G03`s which burn well in both the NEC and Pioneer.

I can go on an on with similar examples. It`s trial and error. I really wish I could explain this but I can`t

So far the best on both my burnners are DVD+R RICHOJPN and DVD-R MXLRG02. These are both 4X DVD`s. They usually go on sale at BestBuy Office Max or Circuit City for a buck a piece. Hundreds of burns and not one coaster.

I even bought TDK DVD-R 2X which are Ritek GO4 they fail on the NEC but burn perfectly on my pioneer.

These disks are all A grade and yet their is a big difference.
I tried Samsung DVD-R 2X which are prodisk. In the Pioneer they burn perfect till 3.5 Gig then fail. In the Nec they burn all the way to 4.3 without a problem, perfect scan with nero.

I burn all my DVD`s with Nero 5.51042 now I`m using 5.51056.
I don`t like Nero 6.

All the DVD`s I burn for friends have never failed and that`s the true test.

Do your homework and find the best DVD`s for your burnner and stick with them. If you go mailorder with meritline or supermedia store it`t the luck of the draw.
Newegg.com has 25 Memorex DVD+r 4X Richojpn for 26.50 @ free shipping.

I hope this help

Carthoris

[atreides93]

I experienced a similar situation where the buffer would go nuts and I'd get messed up burns. It happened when I moved my DVD burner to my promise IDE controller card. I moved it back to my motherboard's IDE controller and the problem disappeared. It makes me believe that its a problem with my promise IDE controller...perhaps a bug in DMA transfers?? Could be a lot of things...what I'd suggest is disabling DMA on that channel and see what difference (if any) it makes. Sure it uses up massive CPU, but should work fine for testing purposes.

Please report.

[dragonstout]

Just to update and thank everyone who chimed in with advice: I tried using the DVD burner with another computer and had the EXACT same problem, so the problem was with the burner all along (still perplexed as to why there was a day when it worked with DVD Decrypter and not Nero, but...), and I'm getting it replaced! Thank you, though, everyone!
Andy

[dragonstout]

...so I got my burner replaced. The replacement arrived on Tuesday. I installed it in a different computer than the one originally used, and successfully backed up 4 DVDs. And then...three coasters. Exact same problem as before.

For all three of these, the process used to burn was simply:
Rip the iso file to the computer with DVD Decrypter 3.2.2.0.
Burn the iso file to the disk with DVD Decrypter.

I am having the same problem as before (playback fails during the last parts of hte disk); however, the only things that are the same as before are:
+ The burner is a LiteOn 811s.
+ I am using a 50-pack of Memorex DVD+Rs.

Do either of these have known problems similar to what I have earlier described?

I was so happy at first to see all my problems solved...and then somehow they came back. Thanks!

Andy

[Kedirekin]

I just recently got a bad batch of 50 4X Memorex DVD+R. So far I've burned about 25 of them, and 5 of them came out coasters. Four of them burned to completion but had media errors on playback/re-rip. One of them locked up the PC while burning. This is after 5 or 6 identical cake boxes (identical down to the media code) without a single coaster.

Just goes to show, even then best known brands aren't 100% reliable. I'm tempted to switch to a different brand (maybe TDK) but there's no guarantee no matter what brand you choose.

[Doom9]

it's weird that the 811S comes up.. because the day I upgraded to Nero6 and the 811S my problems started (though I also had my barebone replaced at the same time). To this day, multiple reinstalls and firmware upgrades didn't fix my problems (PC locking up when burning in Nero, lots of major brand discs (Sony) having read errors or not completing burning when writing an ISO in Nero and burning it (we're talking about data CDs so ImgTool is not an option)). At the beginning I've also tried to put my old burner (A05) back in, but things didn't change.

I halfway suspect the hardware, but I can't really put the finger somewhere. I guess I should try another burning soft that has nothing to do with either Nero or DVD Decrypter and see how that goes. Then at least I can rule out the software.

@dragonstout: just for the heck if it, have you tried another media brand? Memorex might be pretty good, but trying some heavyweight like Verbatim won't hurt (I did that.. unfortunately in my case it didn't help and my problems have nothing to do with media brand, nor media type)

[dragonstout]

I'm actually now thinking this might be a RIPPING issue; when I said I burned 4 good DVDs and then 3 bad ones, I actually burned 3 good ones, a bad one, a good one, and then two bad ones. I noticed that all of the bad burns were burned using process detailed below, while the good ones were movies which needed to be stripped of extras to fit onto a blank DVD. Now, instead of ripping the DVD in iso mode, I rip in file mode and then use Imgtools to convert the VOBs to an iso. I have since burned 4 perfect DVDs. Has anyone else heard of DVD Decrypter having problems with ripping an iso?

[Kedirekin]

Hmmm...

I've done many, many direct backups (ripped to ISO with DVDDecrypter then burned with DVDDecrypter). I haven't noticed any issues related to ripping.

My recent issues with my bad Memorex 50 pack are similar to yours - 5 good, 1 bad, 2 good, 4 bad - that sort of (lack of) pattern. More telling perhaps; I burned a DVDShrink produced image and it failed, then I immediately burned the exact same image file again to the next disk in the pack and it burned, test-ripped, and played in my stand-alone successfully.

I think your spate of four-in-a-row successful may be a coincidence.