Making a SVCD with mp3?

[castellanos]

Hi there! I have a question: It is possible to create a SVCD with TMPGEnc but with a mp3 as audio stream?
I've seen the sugestion doing it with the "multiplex" option (I don't know if that work for SVCD) that means, that I have to create a non audio Super Video mpeg, and then add the mp3?
Or I can add a mp3 plug-in for TMPGEnc and make the encoding at once?
Greatings!

[bb]

I don't think that there are players that can play SVCDs with MP3 sound. It should not be called SVCD anyway, because the SVCD specs demand MP2 audio. So I guess there's no use to try it.

bb

[castellanos]

Good! Thank you very much for the advice.

[castellanos]

Well, here I go again, if there is no possible to create a SVCD with Mp3 as sound, What can I do to compress a little bit the audio file?
I've got a movie, almost 2 hs long and I have a very big wav file (1.300 MB) I would like to pack the entire movie in 3 CDs if it's possible, and for that I would prefer to compress the audio than set less bitrate in the video file.
Any idea how to do that, or at least, which another audio file fits into SVCD?

[Dimmer]

MP2 is the standard audio for SVCD. Encode your .wav to .mp2 with TMPGEnc setting the bitrate as low as you can tolerate in terms of quality.

[cweb]

Originally posted by Dimmer
MP2 is the standard audio for SVCD. Encode your .wav to .mp2 with TMPGEnc setting the bitrate as low as you can tolerate in terms of quality.

It's not recommended that you use TMPGenc to create your mp2 file. You will lose a lot on quality.
Use BeSweet instead and then mux your video and audio using bbmpeg or tmpgenc itself.

[castellanos]

Well, I've made the conversion and it went all wrong!
First of all, I used the "Project Wizard" from TMPGEnc only to see how big is gonna be the final mpeg file with the -non compressed- wave(2600 MB), then I set the audio on 32000 Hz and 192 Kb/s... hoping to make a difference (2400 MB and no more) but the final result was a 2600 MB mpeg, just exactly as the non compressed one, and also, out of sincronization: At the the end, the sound was a little bit ahead than the video.
Can anybody tell me what I did wrong?
P.S.: I certainly do not complain about the sound quality.

[Dimmer]

Originally posted by castellanos
Well, I've made the conversion and it went all wrong!
First of all, I used the "Project Wizard" from TMPGEnc only to see how big is gonna be the final mpeg file with the -non compressed- wave(2600 MB), then I set the audio on 32000 Hz and 192 Kb/s... hoping to make a difference (2400 MB and no more) but the final result was a 2600 MB mpeg, just exactly as the non compressed one, and also, out of sincronization: At the the end, the sound was a little bit ahead than the video.
Can anybody tell me what I did wrong?You should set sampling rate to 44100 Hz, otherwise the audio will get out of sync on most of the players.

192kbps is a standard bitrate for stereo. You can try to bring it even further down.

[castellanos]

Thank you Dimmer for the advice, I will put 44.1 now but... I thought the standard audio for SVCD was 224 Kb/s.
Whatever, let me ask something: That's mean, what ever wave file you have or another audio compatible to SVCD, at the moment of encoding, TMPGEnc will encode the audio file into mp2?
Waht happen if I use the "simple multiplex"? There you can put a mp3 or even an ac3 audio file... Will TMPGEnc also encode the audio file into mp2?

[Dimmer]

Yes, TMPGEnc will encode any audio it can accept into MP2.

If you use Simple Multiplex, it won't encode anything but simply combine audio and video streams in one file. You won't get a standard SVCD, however some cheap players like Apex will still be able to play it. That's often called XSVCD.

[castellanos]

Good Dimmer, I apreciate very much your help.
One last question (I hope): If I create a mpeg with mp3 or ac3 using Simple Multiplex, can I burn it into a standard SVCD? The idea is to play it in a computer.
I've made one test once, I got a non audio SVCD mpeg and I muxed it with a mp3, the result was another mpeg... but smaller than the non audio one! I don't know why.
Whatever, It was possible to play it from the HD with WinDVD, but I didn't burned it. It is possible? and then play it with the computer?

[Dimmer]

You can multiplex MPEG-2 video with AC3 or MP3 sound into a MPEG file and play it as a file on the computer in a software player like PowerDVD/WinDVD/WMP. It certainly won't be a standard SVCD anymore since the standard calls for MP2 audio.

However, if you're planning to play this only on the computer, I don't see why you should bother with SVCD at all. Just burn the MPEG files muxed with any audio you like, and play them with a file player.

[castellanos]

Yes, you are absolutely right. The first idea was to play it in a computer and may be, in a not distant future, in a standard DVD player. As you said, there are some players able to play that XSVCD.
That's why I have the idea to do it as a SVCD format, do you know what I mean?
The final result would be a "XSVCD" or "mp3 SVCD", with the possiblility to play it in the computer or "may be" in a standard cheap DVD player. If that works.

[castellanos]

Something that I really don't understand: How is possible that after encoding the non audio mpeg is the same big as the video+audio one?

[castellanos]

Well, I think somethig is wrong with TMPGEnc... (I'm slownly getting tired of this program) I make another encoding, this time I set the audio in 44100 Hz, and the result is still out of sync. The audio begins good and at the end of the movie, is ahead the video.
I don't know what I am doing wrong!!
Please help!

[bb]

Is your MP3 file encoded with variable bitrate (VBR)? If yes, decode it to a PCM WAV file first before encoding with TMPGEnc.

If you want to play your file on a DVD player, you should use either MP2, AC3, or PCM audio. You may consider to create a miniDVD, too (which requires authoring just as if you want to create a regular DVD). You have to test whether your DVD player supports miniDVD, though.

In terms of compatibility and qualit SVCD is a good choice. Use MP2 audio at 44.1 kHz; a sampling rate of 192 kbps is a good compromise between audio quality and bitrate left for the video. If you'd like to change the samplerate and encode to MP2 in TMPGEnc, I recommend to use SSRC and tooLAME as external programs (see Doom9's download section). In TMPGEnc, select Option/Environmental setting, then the "Audio engine" tab. Below "MPEG-1 Audio Layer II encoder" select "External program" and set the path to tooLAME. In the "" box select "External program" and set the path to SSRC. Confirm by clicking OK.

bb

[castellanos]

Well, here is the whole idea: I am tring to create a SVCD from a 2:10 Hs movie (including permanent subtitles). The programs I use are: DVD2AVI, (VAPICon. to create the sort of avi file and insert the subs with Vobsub) and of course TMPGEnc.
I've tried already many ways: Demuxing the audio file with DVD2AVI or just with VobEdit (In the last case, I demux the files and convert the audio with River Past Audio Converter).
I've tried encoding the mpeg together with audio, and also creating a non audio mpeg and then remuxing the files with the multiplex option.
In all the cases, the result was out if sync. and I don't know why.
I use 25 fps for the SVCD, exactly as the source.
One thing still bothers me: The aspect ratio: There are two settings for that, one in Setting/Video and the other in Setting/Advance (Source Aspect Ratio)... could be that the problem?.
The original movie is 16:9, should be both settings in 16:9? is that why the mpeg is going out of sync. or is only a problem with the audio?
My idea was to create the SVCD without loosing video quality and put that 2:10 Hs movie into 3 CDs, that's why I tought that may be compressing the audio file could be the solution, instead of reduce the bitrate; but I already notice that this make no really big difference.
Now I just want to get something... but syncronized!
Please help!

[Dimmer]

You should have mentioned from the start that you're trying to re-encode a DVD movie. This presents o number of new problems and solutions. For one thing, standard SVCD is not a best choice if you want to preserve video quality since standard horizontal resolution for DVD is 720 pixels while for SVCD it's 480. Next, DVD audio sampling rate is 48kHz and for SVCD it's 44.1kHz - that's probably the reason why your audio is getting out of sync.

Audio sync certainly has nothing to do with aspect ratio. I'm not sure if it's possible to create a 16:9 SVCD, maybe someone else could comment on it. I know though that the aspect ratio flag is stored within MPEG video stream, so perhaps some players would play it properly.

So I suggest you go the XSVCD way or better yet store your stuff just as MPEG files. Keep the original video resolution and audio track. You don't really save much space by re-encoding the audio unless it was in PCM format, which is unlikely nowadays. The only thing you'll have to do is multiplex and cut the MPEG file into CD-sized chunks. If you're planning to buy a player, choose the one that can play discs in file mode. This way you could save yourself a lot of time, and if you ever buy a DVD-burner, it would be easy to convert the movie back to a standard DVD video.

[castellanos]

If the whole thing should be for me, I would make a DVD copy. I'm tring to give a present to someone who does not have DVD player.
Anyway, do you mean that I should create a non audio mpeg and then remux it with the original ac3 audio file?

[bb]

Hmm, if your source is DVD:

- If you want something CD-based, which plays on DVD standalones as well as on PCs (using a software player like PowerDVD or WinDVD), why don't you simply use DVD2SVCD which does everything for you?

- If you want to play the movie on a PC only, why don't you use AutoGK and let it create a DivX (or XviD) film for you? This way you won't need more than two CDs for almost perfect quality.

As you can see, there are fully automated procedures available to solve your problem. Or did I misunderstand something very basic here?

bb

[castellanos]

Interesting also, but I am not experienced in Divx...
I don't want to use DVD2SVCD, it use a combination of many programs that I already have... I don't like it so much, nothing personal, just a caprice!
But now the thing is to get at least, a SVCD or a XSVCD, but synchronized!
Finally the audio must be at 48000 Hz? What should I do, mux the non audio mpeg with the original ac3 and get the XSVCD or do something in the settings of DVD2AVI?
Please, something but synchroinized!!!

[castellanos]

OK, finally I got the well synchronized mpg, the settings I used was MPEG 2, Bitrate 2520, 25 fps and audio mp2 48000 Hz, 128 Kbs.
The final mpg was 2500 MB a little bit bigger than I wanted, finally I put the entire movie into 4 CDs and not in 3, as I was thinking before.
However, when I burned the SVCDs with Nero, It came a window saying that it is not a standard SVCD, because the 48000 Hz. Anyway, WinDVD played the movie without problems.
The final question is, if I want to create a standard SVCD from a DVD with TMPGEnc and in the conditions I've refered before, I will always have problem of synchronisation?
I mean, if I set a standard SVCD with audio at 44100 Hz, and the original movie is an ac3 at 48000 Hz... is not possible to get it synch.
Please, this answer and I'm done.
Thanks!

[Dimmer]

Synchronization is not always a problem. If you go the long way such as using DVD2SVCD as bb has mentioned above, you might get a standard SVCD with 44.1kHz audio in sync. But if you want a quick fix, you'll have to sacrifice the standard compliance.

[castellanos]

Good! I got it, anyway, next time, if I want to create a standard SVCD, I think the best option for me is DVDx instead of DVD2SVCD, of course is not the same quality as TMPGEnc, but is a little program and it does everything automatic (The best for nerds like me!).
However, Thanks you very much for those who took part in this discussion: "cweb", "bb" and specialy: "Dimmer".
Thanks and best whishes!