BatchCCEWS 0.9.1.3: too much bad set CCE switches!

[unplugged]

I'm trying to use this nice program interface but onestly there are too many obvious settings mismatch in respect to recommended DVD switches, some major mismatch are directly related between the BatchCCEWS panel settings and the ECL creation.
Maybe 1 or 2 glitches could be due to CCE-SP 2.67.00.23 (I'm using the newer, BatchCCEWS sure not tested with), like matrix profile selection, but I doubt even that.

Here is the list of bad ones used by default:
- "add sequence end code" enabled (can give playback issues)
- "close all GOPs" enabled (not recommended quality-wise)
- "DF", drop frame always set (wrong for PAL)
- luminance level set to "0-255" (out of YUV standard)
- quantization matrix selection mismatch between BatchCCEWS and CCE:
MPEG Standard ---> (CCE) Standard
Smooth (CG etc.) ---> (CCE) MPEG Standard
Standard ---> (CCE) Smooth (CG etc.)
- with Robshot-Bach method "Create new vaf" is performed whether for 1st Q-pass and for subsequent VBR passes (the first quality based .vaf file gets nullified), as result there will be NO quality based bitrate distribution

Less important:
- custom output directory not respected

[unplugged]

For most setting mismatchs there is aid by tweaking the 4 profiles into Windows registry under "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\WoofSoft\BatchCCEWS\template" but...
RoBa need fix and there should be possibility to set drop frame flag (PAL/NTSC wise) from GUI.

[unplugged]

Oops... I haven't seen that right forum was "DoItFast4, UDoCCE4U & ReAuthorist" ...

Can moderator move my topic please?

[influenza]

Your post is pretty fine is this forum. A lot of the issues you're mentioning are valid. It would be nice if BBwoof offered us the possibility to tweak the different settings from the GUI.

In respect to the Roba issue: I never noticed this. This would mean that basically I do a single pass VBR encode every time. Kinda hard to imagine I would still get excellent quality. On the other hand I still use docce, so maybe this version doesn't have that issue.

[unplugged]

Kinda hard to imagine
?

Look at last .ecl file created, drop it over CCE and double-click for properties
...

[boombastic]

I've just finished my very very first-about 4hours-PAL DVD encode using the default setting and the Doom9 guide for DoItFast4U,NuMenu4U,BatchCCEWS,Scenarist and IFOupdate.Now i read this thread:it's worthy re-doing everything or a part of my work or anyway my DVD will be ok for my standalone player?Is there a way to check if i made all well?Maybe i can use apc-dvd player like power DVD or something similar?I tried with windows Media Player 9 but can't hear the audio and can't see the subtitle.

[influenza]

well audio and subtitles would not be important for this. We're talking video quality, so you could judge that.

[boombastic]

But anywat:will my standalone dvd player play correctly audio and subtitle,if WMP isn't able to do it?How can i check it?I tried Windows Media Player Classic and it plays audio but not subtitle.How do tou check your work before burnining the dvd?

[influenza]

just use any decent software dvd player like powerdvd or windvd. And MPC should be able to play dvd as well if I'm not mistaken.

[boombastic]

WMP is able to play video,menù and subtitles,not audio neither jump directly from a chapter to another;power dvd to the same;WMP classic play audio,video but not subtitle neither is able to jump from a chapter to another...

[influenza]

then something is wrong (i assume you speakers are turned on ;) ). But this really isn't the place to discuss. It's way off topic. Create an other thread with your question please.

[Trahald]

Originally posted by unplugged
- with Robshot-Bach method "Create new vaf" is performed whether for 1st Q-pass and for subsequent VBR passes (the first quality based .vaf file gets nullified), as result there will be NO quality based bitrate distribution



maybe im slow (ok.. probably) ...but that doesnt make sense.. i set roba to one pass.. so right now batchccews does a single opv run and a single vbr pass... now if its not using the same vaf, how is it hitting the size i set dead on in a single pass? the vaf is the only source of information to hit the size mark accurately. if it is discarding the first vaf then it would have to do another vaf run.. which, again, it does not. (i watch several of my encodes and no second vaf pass was performed) on a 3 hour movie it would be easy to notice the extra 2 hours or so of encoding time even if i hadnt watched it.

[RB]

Originally posted by unplugged
- with Robshot-Bach method "Create new vaf" is performed whether for 1st Q-pass and for subsequent VBR passes (the first quality based .vaf file gets nullified), as result there will be NO quality based bitrate distribution

Uh, that is probably actually EclCCE's "fault". Up to EclCCE 1.7b, I had the create_new_vaf ECL parameter backwards. That is, create_new_vaf=0 actually meant "Create new VAF" and create_new_vaf=1 "Use existing VAF". Obviously BatchCCEWS honores this quirk (sorry, it was really a lazyness bug :)), but now that I have "fixed" this in EclCCE 1.8, it causes trouble. You are using EclCCE 1.8, right?

[unplugged]

Yes, 1.8b

Trahald, after opv CCE run multiple VBR set to 1 pass (when BCWS set to 1), _anyway_ with this pass CCE needs average bitrate set, so the fact that it fits your target size doesn't mean...

[Trahald]

Trahald, after opv CCE run multiple VBR set to 1 pass (when BCWS set to 1)

yep.. sure does.. i guess phrasing it 'single multiple vbr pass' might have been better? i was trying to accentuate the single (1) part...

and RB is right.. its batchcce conforming with eclcce 1.7b .. thats not bbwoofs fault.. unfortunately not sure when he'll be back to adjust for the current eclcce's. i had been using the older eclcces and therefor did not get the issue with the second vaf creation with 1.8+

btw, cheers for researching into it so deeply.. (all the issues you found) ... the program is far from perfect..(but then who is ;) ) i suppose since fixing the issues manually has worked out faster than doing it all by hand or writting their own batchcce, i guess people have adapted.

[Trahald]

@RB

would it be possible to add an option to reverse that back to the old way? even if its just a setting in the .ini?

[Mephiston]

So if using BatchCCE with edl 1.7b and lower all is fine ?? CCE will do proper VBR encodes using the VAF file, but if using any higher version of EDLCCE you only get a single pass vbr ??

[Trahald]

Originally posted by Mephiston
So if using BatchCCE with edl 1.7b and lower all is fine ?? CCE will do proper VBR encodes using the VAF file, but if using any higher version of EDLCCE you only get a single pass vbr ??

specifically talking about using the roba method, for the time being.. yes..

[RB]

Originally posted by Trahald
@RB

would it be possible to add an option to reverse that back to the old way? even if its just a setting in the .ini?
I just did this in EclCCE v1.81.16/04/2004 v1.81

- Added support for CCE-SP 2.67.00.27

- Added VafFix INI parameter. Setting VafFix=1 in [EclCCE] section in
EclCCE.ini causes EclCCE to handle the create_new_vaf ECL option
the way it did in EclCCE v1.7b. Use this only for compatibility
with utilities such as BatchCCEWS that rely on the previously
"reverted" handling of create_new_vaf.

[influenza]

Nice RB. :thanks:

[Trahald]

Originally posted by RB
I just did this in EclCCE v1.81.16/04/2004 v1.81

- Added VafFix INI parameter. Setting VafFix=1 in [EclCCE] section in
EclCCE.ini causes EclCCE to handle the create_new_vaf ECL option
the way it did in EclCCE v1.7b. Use this only for compatibility
with utilities such as BatchCCEWS that rely on the previously
"reverted" handling of create_new_vaf.

yes! thank you, sir!

[BBWoof]

and see what happens :)

Honestly, I wasn't really sure if I was going to do anymore updates to the program.

Do the issues seem to be related to changes in ECLCCE because of changes in new versions of CCE?

PAL issues: I don't have a single PAL dvd to test anything on, so if there are issues, I really need indepth help.

BBWoof

[jel]

BBWoof,
i am sure that there would be many greatful PAL users who will give you all the information you could want/need.
another suggestion though, if you would prefer to run you own tests with a PAL source, you could set up an Amazon Wishlist with some titles you would like to test on.
i would be happy to send one or more your way, however being in australia it could take more than a few weeks to reach you :(
take care
j

[influenza]

Welcome back BBwoof :)

I don't have a single PAL dvd to test anything on, so if there are issues, I really need indepth help.

Well honestly I don't think there are any PAL issues. Your program is a front end to CCE (or Eclcce) and I don't see what difference it would make if you're encoding PAL or NTSC. ultimately it's the end user that feeds the program with the desired settings.

What I do think is lacking is support for some CCE settings. Some settings are turned on by default (like close all GOPS) and cannot be influenced. I would be very gratefull if there would be a version in which it would be possible to control more CCE switches so that the more experienced/demanding users could tweak the settings more to get best results.

[influenza]

Hopefully Bbwoof will be kind enough to offer us one last update? (please :)).

Maybe some suggestions can be posted here. I'm thinking myslef about the following things:

picking up correctly on the filenaming of dif4u and making the inverting of field order unnecessary (which is kind of difficult to understand for some people). For some reason I never accomplished batchccews filling in correct switches based on dif4u filenaming.

Besides that i would like to be more switches available like close Gops, GOp size etc.

Also a possibility to adjust and save different matrices would be nice.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by influenza
Hopefully Bbwoof will be kind enough to offer us one last update? (please :)).

Maybe some suggestions can be posted here. I'm thinking myslef about the following things:

picking up correctly on the filenaming of dif4u and making the inverting of field order unnecessary (which is kind of difficult to understand for some people). For some reason I never accomplished batchccews filling in correct switches based on dif4u filenaming.

Besides that i would like to be more switches available like close Gops, GOp size etc.

Also a possibility to adjust and save different matrices would be nice.

Suggestions here would be very helpful. Most of the problems that people report I haven't been able to recreate.

I use RoBa method all the time with 0.9.1.3 and CCESP 2.67.00.11 and it never fails. I'm wondering with what version of CCE is started to not work.

My original goal was to create a template editor, but just haven't gotten around to it. I'll see if I can start working on it and maybe add fields a few per release. (If that sounds like a good plan).

BBWoof

[arlsair]

A "shutdown after processing" option would be useful.

P.S.: Thanks for your great tool.

[influenza]

use RoBa method all the time with 0.9.1.3 and CCESP 2.67.00.11

That's correct. Problems started with new eclcce version. RB has fixed that (add a line to the ini), so it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Thanks bbwoof for being so kind to offer some more updates.

So people please step in while you have a chance, so we can all make this great app a bit better :)

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by arlsair
A "shutdown after processing" option would be useful.

P.S.: Thanks for your great tool.

Shutdown as in "System Shutdown"? or shut down BatchCCEWS?

There already is a shutdown option in the commandline.

BBWoof

[Trahald]

(edit)
Fixing what i typed at work in haste{/edit)
with 0913 and --
cce 2.67, when tff first is checked batchcce sends offset=0 correctly to cce. although when it sees tff in a file name it assigns it as Bottom frame first. thats why inverting hte filename usually work. cause if its topfirst dif4u(inverted) will put in i-bff and then batchccews sets topfirst on.

with 2.66, when tff is checked in batchcce it sends upperfieldfirst=0[off] (which would be for bottom field first). so anyone manually setting it had to uncheck topframefirst for tff material. inversion in batchcce isnt needed here because batchcce (as above) reverses the selection fromt he file name. so if i-tff is in the filename then batch cce sets it as bottom frame first (ie. unchecks topframefirst in the setup). then when encodeing it actually sends topframefirst(upperfieldfirst=1 *on*) when encoding.

also..

i was wondering if there was a way for batchcce to show what its going to send to cce for interlace like


'Setting OffsetLine=0 for TFF'
'Setting OffsetLine=1 for BFF'
'Setting UpperFieldFirst=0 for TFF' </edit>
'Setting UpperFieldFirst=1 for BFF' </edit>


maybe in the log dialog as it imports the .avs'.. although we can see it in the ecls.. it would be good as a confirmation of the settings.. (or maybe its something noone wants and im just weird ;) )

[arlsair]

Originally posted by BBWoof
Shutdown as in "System Shutdown"? or shut down BatchCCEWS?

There already is a shutdown option in the commandline.

BBWoof
System Shutdown in the GUI. So I can leave my PC alone and start e.g. into holidays.

[influenza]

I also wouldn't mind a autosave batch changes setting. Call me stupid but it has happened just a bit too much that I've changed some setting on one of the jobs and forgot to press replace :D

[BBWoof]

I've had a slight problem with my programming machine. So I'm wiping it and reinstalling everything.

BBWoof

[arlsair]

I found another think:
As Trahald mentiones in his Vobu error FAQ (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71901) it would be great when BatchCCE load the cell information file from DVD Decrypter to force CCE to set an I-frame for every cell.

[BBWoof]

I'd love to get this whole TFF/BFF thing fixed, but to tell the truth it gives me a headache thinking about it.

The autosave batch chances I can probably figure out.

I'll look into how to shut down a system, but have never tried it before.

BTW: My programming machine is back up with everything installed so I should be able to do some work.

BBWoof

[Trahald]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I'd love to get this whole TFF/BFF thing fixed, but to tell the truth it gives me a headache thinking about it.

BBWoof

Hehe. yeah.. you and me both.. :D

[Nonstop]

It would be cool if "All frames were Marked As Progressive" when 2:3 Pulldown is checked. The default setting causes shaking at the top of the video on one of my DVD players.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by Nonstop
It would be cool if "All frames were Marked As Progressive" when 2:3 Pulldown is checked. The default setting causes shaking at the top of the video on one of my DVD players.

I don't think I've ever marked a file with all frames progressive when running pulldown.

Any other opinions on this one.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by arlsair
I found another think:
As Trahald mentiones in his Vobu error FAQ (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71901) it would be great when BatchCCE load the cell information file from DVD Decrypter to force CCE to set an I-frame for every cell.

I just read this FAQ. I don't think when I was modifying this the last time that DVDDec was exporting a cell point file, but I may be wrong. It's definitely a better way to set I-Frames and I'll see what I can do.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by influenza
I also wouldn't mind a autosave batch changes setting. Call me stupid but it has happened just a bit too much that I've changed some setting on one of the jobs and forgot to press replace :D

I've added an option to the settings to do this. When you save or replace a job, it should save the settings as default if this option is selected.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by unplugged
Here is the list of bad ones used by default:
- "add sequence end code" enabled (can give playback issues)

When should sequence end codes be enabled? It's never been mentioned to me before.

- "close all GOPs" enabled (not recommended quality-wise)

I can add this as an advanced option if it's wanted.

- "DF", drop frame always set (wrong for PAL)

Sumpin' wierd here. It should not set "DF" for PAL source, but since I don't have any PAL source to test on.....

- luminance level set to "0-255" (out of YUV standard)

Did this possibly change with a version of CCE past 2.67.00.11 (this is the version I have and so can't really test...)

- quantization matrix selection mismatch between BatchCCEWS and CCE:
MPEG Standard ---> (CCE) Standard
Smooth (CG etc.) ---> (CCE) MPEG Standard
Standard ---> (CCE) Smooth (CG etc.)

Ratz!!!!! I thought I had this right. Will definitely look into it.

- with Robshot-Bach method "Create new vaf" is performed whether for 1st Q-pass and for subsequent VBR passes (the first quality based .vaf file gets nullified), as result there will be NO quality based bitrate distribution

I believe I have this fixed. During the first ROBA pass "create_new_vaf" is set to 1 and during second it's set to 0.

Less important:
- custom output directory not respected

It worked at one point. I'm curious when it quit working. Personally I don't use it often.

I'm back to working on this project. I'll try to get these things fixed before I stop working on it.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by Trahald
with 0913 and --
cce 2.67, when tff first is checked batchcce sends offset=0 correctly to cce. although when it sees tff in a file name it assigns it as Bottom frame first. thats why inverting hte filename usually work. cause if its topfirst dif4u(inverted) will put in i-bff and then batchccews sets topfirst on.

This paragraph is not so bad. What you're saying is that if I see a TFF or I-TFF in the file name I should set offset=0???

(Dull throb starting in the back of my head)

with 2.66, when tff is checked in batchcce it sends upperfieldfirst=0[off] (which would be for bottom field first). so anyone manually setting it had to uncheck topframefirst for tff material. inversion in batchcce isnt needed here because batchcce (as above) reverses the selection fromt he file name. so if i-tff is in the filename then batch cce sets it as bottom frame first (ie. unchecks topframefirst in the setup). then when encodeing it actually sends topframefirst(upperfieldfirst=1 *on*) when encoding.

So??? When TFF is checked, I should write 'upperfieldfirst=1' and if TFF or I-TFF is in the filename I should write '=0'??

(Sharp pain right behind my eyes!)

also..

i was wondering if there was a way for batchcce to show what its going to send to cce for interlace like


'Setting OffsetLine=0 for TFF'
'Setting OffsetLine=1 for BFF'
'Setting UpperFieldFirst=1 for TFF'
'Setting UpperFieldFirst=0 for BFF'


maybe in the log dialog as it imports the .avs'.. although we can see it in the ecls.. it would be good as a confirmation of the settings.. (or maybe its something noone wants and im just weird ;) )

This part seems very reasonable, and not that hard to implement.


I need aspirin now.

BBWoof

[arlsair]

And another thing:
For me (PAL) the "Auto Check Angles" don`t work. I have to set the angle option by myself.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by arlsair
And another thing:
For me (PAL) the "Auto Check Angles" don`t work. I have to set the angle option by myself.

Auto Check Angles is only going to work if you are importing a CCEData text from DIF4U. And the only reason that would make it not work is if DIF4U changes the file names for PAL source. Could you post your CCEData.txt file here so I can look at it?

BBWoof

[arlsair]

"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9160,2624,0,3
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS02\VTS__02_P01.4~3_1.AVS",0,9160,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS03\VTS__03_P01.4~3_1.AVS",0,9352,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS04\VTS__04_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS05\VTS__05_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS06\VTS__06_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS07\VTS__07_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS08\VTS__08_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS09\VTS__09_P01.4~3_1.AVS",0,9416,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS10\VTS__10_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS11\VTS__11_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS12\VTS__12_V001.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS12\VTS__12_V002.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS12\VTS__12_V003.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS13\VTS__13_V001.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS13\VTS__13_V002.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS13\VTS__13_V003.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS14\VTS__14_V001.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS14\VTS__14_V002.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS14\VTS__14_V003.16~9_1.AVS",0,7944,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS15\VTS__15_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS16\VTS__16_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9416,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS18\VTS__18_P01.4~3_1.AVS",0,9352,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS19\VTS__19_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9352,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS20\VTS__20_P01.16~9_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4
"D:\DVD\DoItFast4U!\VTS21\VTS__21_P01.4~3_1.AVS",0,9608,2000,0,4

[A-Jigga]

BBWoof,

Here is my attempt to make the tff/bff issue simpler. This is assuming "Invert field names" in DIF4U is not checked so hopefully we can get rid of that option and ease confusion. The ultimate goal here would be to check Top Field First in BatchCCE when you have top field first video and uncheck it when you have bottom field first video. My suggestion:

If filename contains I-TFF:
-Check Top Field First in BatchCCE
-Set OffsetLine=0 for CCE 2.67
-Set UpperFieldFirst=0 for CCE 2.66

If filename contains I-BFF:
-Uncheck Top Field First in BatchCCE
-Set OffsetLine=1 for CCE 2.67
-Set UpperFieldFirst=1 for CCE 2.66


On another note, I too have had at least one problem in the past because BatchCCE doesnt mark frames as progressive when running pulldown. I dont see what harm it could do to always mark frames as progressive during pulldown, since the video will always have been encoded as progressive in that case.

Finally, one other thing about a potential problem with EclCCE. As I'm sure you already know, the createnewvaf setting was handled backwards by EclCCE versions prior to 1.8. Since you're now setting that (correctly) to 1 for RoBa first pass and 0 for the 2nd pass, maybe have BatchCCE check to make sure that atleast v1.8 is installed when it starts up.

Thanks for all the work youve put in this program...I think it makes all of our dvd-backup lives a lot easier.

[Trahald]

Originally posted by A-Jigga
BBWoof,


If filename contains I-TFF:
-Check Top Field First in BatchCCE
-Set OffsetLine=0 for CCE 2.67
-Set UpperFieldFirst=0 for CCE 2.66

If filename contains I-BFF:
-Uncheck Top Field First in BatchCCE
-Set OffsetLine=1 for CCE 2.67
-Set UpperFieldFirst=1 for CCE 2.66



great post!

100% correct

[Trahald]

@bbw00f

just look at the post above (A-jigga's)

i was smoking something when i wrote mine

his is accurate

i had something in my head but my fingers didnt type it right. but anywho.. if you do it that way all will be well

have some motrin :)