Lossless compressed Codecs test inkl. ffdshow

[TEB]

Hi. im doing some tests on various lossless codecs.

Sourceclip is a coloured streaky/dotty 50's clip stored as a 50mbit Mpeg2 ml@hp interlaced 4:2:0 (upper filed first) file.
File is 528 frames. (clip has audio @384kbit mpeg1l2)


I need to find a stable and safe container format that can handle 30gb+ filesizes, but for this short test im using .avi as the preferred container. I would prefere Matroska, OGM, AAF or MXF but they are allways crashing the apps or arent supported.

Im using VDUB 1.5.10 mpeg2 hack in full processing mode
Hardware: Dual Xeon 2.4ghz (HT mode=4logical cpus) 1gb ram 533mhz, 3ware 7410 striped raid 0 drive set = 400gb 70MB write speed
Windows XPsp1a

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Codecs in the test that are supposedly lossless yv12 mode)

RGB Uncompressed mode (just for measure)
CanopusDV (just for measure)

FFDSHOW 31.3.2004 build
*Lossless Jpeg
*Huffy yv12 plane
*FFV1 VLC coding
*FFV1 AC coding

FFVFW august 03 relase (only one i could get to work through VDUB)
*Huffy yv12 plane
*FFV1 VLC coding
*FFV1 AC coding

Alpharysoft Lossless codec 1.6
-Progressive store mode (very slow)
-Interlaced store mode

HuffYUV v.2.2.0
*Default values

LOCO 0.2
*Source is interlaced and its yuv2 (4:2:2) by default

Pegasus Picvideo
*Lossless jpeg 24bit mode (no yv12 mode)

Morgan Jpeg2000lossess 4:2:0
*Crashed vdub all the time..

CorePNG is really making havoc with my machine, so nogo there
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Result on size:

Volume in drive Z is data
Directory of Z:\

03.04.2004 12:52 244MB ol_alphary_lossless.avi
03.04.2004 12:54 255MB ol_alphary_lossless_prog.avi
03.04.2004 12:56 80MB ol_canopus_dv.avi (lossy DV)
03.04.2004 13:03 96MB ol_ffdshow_lossless_ffv1_ac.avi
03.04.2004 13:01 99MB ol_ffdshow_lossless_ffv1_vlc.avi
03.04.2004 12:59 177MB ol_ffdshow_lossless_huffy.avi
03.04.2004 12:57 151MB ol_ffdshow_lossless_jpeg.avi
03.04.2004 13:24 107MB ol_ffvfw_lossless_ffv1_ac.avi
03.04.2004 13:18 110MB ol_ffvfw_lossless_ffv1_vlc.avi
03.04.2004 13:14 177MB ol_ffvfw_lossless_huffy.avi
03.04.2004 13:27 93MB ol_huffyuv_v2.2.0.avi
03.04.2004 13:30 142MB ol_loco_02.avi
03.04.2004 13:37 16MB ol_morgan_lossless_420.avi (crash)
03.04.2004 13:33 343MB ol_picvideo_lossless.avi
03.04.2004 12:49 661MB ol_rgb_uncompressed.avi

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As one can see, huffy 2.2 is still the best, tho i dont know much about the parameters in default mode.
FFv1 in FFdshow is very good.. These are also the fastest codecs around. like 10 - 1 speedwize compared to Alphary.
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Some questions:

Do anyone know what the difference between FFVFW and FFDSHOW on the encoder side? I thought that FFDSHOW was only a reader filter not an encoder filter group like FFVFW??
Why the great difference with huffy inside of FFXX projects that the 2.2 version?
Plz comments on the tests, errors and such!!

thx

TEB

[Tommy Carrot]

I think you've accidentally activated the reduced resolution option of huffyuv 2.2.0, because that result is completely unrealistic. No way huffyuv can beat FFV1, let alone LOCO. But reduced resolution is a (very) lossy method, so it shouldn't count in a lossless test.

ffdshow codec is simply a new version of ffvfw, and now it's installed together with the ffdshow playback filter, instead of a separate installer, hence the name change.

EDIT: This thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65008) contains another lossless codec comparison, including some codecs which were not tested here.

[P0l1m0rph1c]

Hmm....you didn't include CorePNG. That one diesnt behave not bad at all, in terms of compression ratios.

[TEB]

Thx for the input.

As i mentioned in the post i did try COREPNG, but it went havoc on my system.. I had to remove it.. Doesnt like my setup thats for sure.

Huffyuv 2.2 i used the default values, didnt tuch anything. The redused resolution is not on so i have no clue why it compressed this good.Any recommendations on the parameters for yv12? I see there is a field threshold set at 288, but since im interlaced PAL it should be ok.

I tried Milk but this one complains on "error getting compressor output format size" ???

best regards teb

[MfA]

Most of those codecs arent designed for interlaced coding ... just seperate the fields for them.

[LiFe]

There is no "reduced resolution" mode for Huffy.

It has 3 compression modes in either RGB or YUV. All are lossless. (I've found one or two of the lowwer compression (faster) modes don't always work for me, but I havn't tried them all in the last version).

I just always use the highest compression and YUV where possible. It's certainly not fast, the file sizes are still massive, but it seems massive compression over uncompressed.

LiFe.

[LiFe]

BTW, Noone has updated Huffy for years now... Has anyone considered building a project on sourceforge and begun updating the codec?

I guess some of the priorities would be:
- Continue to improve compression rates
- Improve speed (perhaps look at adding SSE/2/3 and 3DNow optimisations)

Do Huffman algorithms lend themselves to 64-bit encoding? Perhaps work on a compilation for AMD64.

Perhaps port to Linux / OSX?

Perhaps extend the project to include a multi-channel DShow Wav compatible lossless audio codec?

LiFe.

[RadicalEd]

sh0dan (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67121) released an updated 2.2.0 back in December, and it does have reduced res http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif
Doc (http://cultact-server.novi.dk/kpo/huffyuv/huffyuv.html)

Likewise, the ffmpeg guys have been working on its libavcodec implementation semiregularly. The last cvs commit was 8 weeks ago.
SF project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffmpeg/)

And further more, an ad-hoc band of coders from amv (http://www.animemusicvideos.org) are planning on getting a stable standalone yv12 version.
SF project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/videoeditorskit/)

:|

[Tommy Carrot]

I just don't understand why is the big effort to improve huffyuv? There already are better lossless codecs, with much better compression ratios.

[RadicalEd]

Originally posted by Tommy Carrot
I just don't understand why is the big effort to improve huffyuv? There already are better lossless codecs, with much better compression ratios.

VBLE trashes directshow, CorePNG is too slow, and ffv1 is too developmental. A good, stable yv12-capable variety of huffyuv would seem to be choice :|

[TEB]

I agree on that last post.. But im beginning to like FFV1 now.. its getting better in the newest builds by my experience.
I dont have any good experiences using it inside matroska or ogm containers tho..

[HLW]

Just a little comment: It seems like from the homepage of Huffyuv v.2.2.0 (http://cultact-server.novi.dk/kpo/huffyuv/huffyuv.html) that it doesn't support yv12 yet. So I guess one probably will get 4:2:2 even if the source is in 4:2:0. Then the comparision amongst 4:2:0 codecs are a little unfair.

Edit:
Sorry, in the ffdshow, huffyuv seemd to support yv12! I was a little fast there!

[HLW]

But I also find that Huffyuv is creating smaller files than ffv1, even if I am not using the reduced resolution. But I also found out that the reduced resolution mode doesn't create smaller files than the full reolution mode. So maybe there's a bug here, making reduced resolution files all the time?