Menu buttons don't show up after replacing menu

[Harm]

First........ I tried looking for an answer in the vast amount of info in here but couldn't find it.

What I want to do is the following:
Replace the background of an existing menu (in this case a subtitle menu).

What I done is this:
1. Saved the frame in Menuedit to a BMP file.
2. Editted this file with Photoshop (just plain textchange).
3. Created a still menu VOB from this changed BMP.
4. Saved the button layout of the original menu with Menuedit.
5. Replaced the Cell in the original menu by the one in the newly created VOB with Menuedit.
6. Loaded the button layout on it and changed the width of 1 button with Menuedit.
7. According to Menuedit all looks fine now.
8. Saved all changes.
9. Did the IFOEdit procedure with Menu Extras, Selecting all VOBids and running Strip it.
10. Put the resulting files into the final result.

What happens:
As soon as I start up the changed menu, the background changes are clearly visible but no buttons are active! If I open up the VOB again with Menuedit the buttons are there!

What am I doing wrong or what did I miss?
Let's hope one of you can tell me that...... :cool:

[violao]

I have a question for you:
Originally posted by Harm
3. Created a still menu VOB from this changed BMP.
How exactly did you create VOB from BMP? At what step are your subpicture streams muxed?

This is what I would do:
1. Split menu vob file to cells.
2. Demux m2v still from menu cell vob file.
3. Convert m2v still to bitmap, edit, reencode to new m2v.
4. Open menu cell vob file (from 2) and remux new m2v.
5. Open 1st menu cell vob file with Vobedit and join cell/vob files.

That's it. This procedure should not mess with other menu vob streams (subpicture, audio).

You may want to check (with Vobrator for example) what streams are present in your resulting vob. You should at least see 1 subpicture stream (like 0x20).

[Harm]

That's one part of the sequence I am unsure of.
I just created a still menu from the BMP without any extra's. So no subtitles either.
I figured those were not needed at that time because I reinstate the original button structure after I replaced the original cell with the cell out of my new VOB.
Should I have added something in the VOB creation phase?

Maybe I should add that the original menu looks like a still menu but I suspect it isn't because there is an audioloop in it.
When I demux the menu I get a M2V file for the menu but I don't know how to edit that one; is that possible?

I read something about adding layers in Photoshop. Those could be recognized by e.g. ReelDVD to automatically be turned into buttons.

But as I said after all actions I can see the buttons in MenuEdit (with the correct actions attached to them).
Is there some parm in the IFO I have to switch on to get display of menu buttons?

[violao]

If you encoded bmp to mpeg2 with DVD compliant parameters you did the right thing. m2v and audio are different streams so you can have m2v still with audio loop.

I suspect that what you see in MenuEdit are not button overlays but button coordinates and commands that you previously saved in your step 4. Perhaps dimad will have correct answer to that.

I think that if you want to change button overlays, then you also need to edit button images and remux them together with m2v and audio in VOB creation step. How exactly you'll do that depends on the application you use for your step 3. I would rip original subpictures with Subrip, use image editor to change them and mux everything to new cell with new buttons and commands using freeware spumux/dvdauthor.

If are going to re-author you'll need to be careful with colors. I suggest you check what color mapping the original cell uses and then use the same with your authoring application. Only that way you may safely use color table from your original PGC.

No need to change anything in IFO if you want to retain original stream structure.

p.s. I missed IMPORTANT info in previous post:

4. Open menu cell vob file (from 2) with Vobedit and remux new m2v.

[Harm]

I am not sure that I understand exactly what you mean.
So the text you see in a button is not only in the background but also on a subtitle?
I demuxed the total menu with NuMenu4U and got besides the M2V and the AC3 also a subtitle dir with files with extensions SUP, IDX, SUB and RAW. The SUP files are not readable by SRT2SUP so I guess there is something else in there.
NuMenu4U uses these files to mux the menu files again after encoding the M2V with CCE so this subtitle information should be there. Or not?
But how to access them? And change them?

For creating the VOB I used Scenarist. According to your description I rather should use VobEdit? I have no experience with that one. There is probably some guide around here.
Should I use Vobedit for step 1 of your description to?

How do you do your (not the edit part...)
3. Convert m2v still to bitmap, edit, reencode to new m2v.
?

[violao]

Originally posted by Harm
I am not sure that I understand exactly what you mean.
So the text you see in a button is not only in the background but also on a subtitle?
You got it right. The text or whatever else appears on the screen when you highlight/select a button is stored in subpicture stream, or you may call it subtitle, they are the same. Button image can also be shown on m2v background, but it need not to be.
Originally posted by Harm
NuMenu4U uses these files to mux the menu files again after encoding the M2V with CCE so this subtitle information should be there. Or not?
Don't know. Check with Vobrator. It will list all the streams present in a vob. You can also check subpictures with Subrip in "show bitmap" mode.
Originally posted by Harm
But how to access them? And change them?
You may extract subpicture bitmaps from original vob cell with Subrip. Edit them with whatever you like and import in your authoring application. To precisely align subpicture to background image you'll need image editor that supports layers and open both background and subpicture bitmaps at the same time in different layers.
Originally posted by Harm
For creating the VOB I used Scenarist. According to your description I rather should use VobEdit?
Vobedit is usable only if you just want to remux m2v, leaving all other streams intact.
Originally posted by Harm
Should I use Vobedit for step 1 of your description to?
If you only remux m2v you can use Vobedit for all steps, except step 3.
Originally posted by Harm
How do you do your (not the edit part...)
3. Convert m2v still to bitmap, edit, reencode to new m2v?
I believe you already know how to do that. I use DVD2AVI/Vfapi/Virtualdub for conversion and Tmpgenc set to VBR - CQ 80 for encoding

[Harm]

Let me start by thanking you for the big amount of info you are giving me......

Just to see if I got it right:
A part of a menu consists of
1. Movie or Picture (demuxed as M2V and BMP?)
2. Sound (demuxed as AC3 (not allowed together with a real still menu?))
3. Subpictures (SPES?)

I checked with Vobrator and found that in the original VOB there are also 2 SPES to be found and in the editted one there are none.
Vobrator also shows an item called NAV. This is the navigation between the menus?

I had a better look on the menu part I want to change and the buttons just consists out of 2 green blocks that show up as soon as the selector hoovers over the text on the background. I extracted those with Subrip (although it can only extract all subpictures and not just 1 one of a specific menu) and they just contain the mentioned blocks.

As I don't have to change the subpicture blocks what remains is that I want to change the text in the background. I thought I could manage that with a BMP.
Should I follow this route still? I guess I can isolate the subpicture involved and add it to Scenarist when I am creating the new VOB out of that changed BMP. I hope this helps me when using MenuEdit for the final replace....
Or would it be better to try to change the M2V and then use VOBedit?

You tell me I believe you already know how to do that. I use DVD2AVI/Vfapi/Virtualdub for conversion and Tmpgenc set to VBR - CQ 80 for encoding but I think I lost you there.
These things don't ring a bell right away. Normally I use DIF4U and NUMenu4U for the demux phase, CCE for the encoding and Scenarist for the remuxing. So could you please elaborate?

[violao]

Menu still is not BMP. It's 1 frame m2v. You make these by encoding bitmaps to mpeg2. Resulted m2v can be muxed with any supported audio (mp2, ac3 or pcm). Vice-versa, to get bitmap from still menu background you need first to demux m2v, then to convert it to bitmap. Software you used have obviously hidden these details from you so you got the wrong idea of BMP still. Other than that you were right about menu parts.

Only now I realize that you in fact asked how to make m2v from bmp. Easy, any mpeg2 encoder can do that. Perhaps easiest to use is Tmpgenc. Just make sure that you use dvd compliant template (settings). Encode to video elementary stream - that's what m2v is.

Subrip can work on individual vob files, only you need to uncheck "automatically check all files..."

Anyway, if you don't want to change subpicture overlays (subpicture blocks as you referred), then you need not to edit subpictures, forget Subrip and follow route explained in my 1st answer.

1. Re-author menu still background image using process that you're familiar with.
2. Encode result from step 1 to m2v.
3. Open original menu cell vob file with Vobedit and remux new m2v.

In step 3 Vobedit will simply replace original menu still background with your new one, leaving other streams intact.

Hope this is clear now.

[Harm]

It's getting clearer to me........ but

I took the BMP I previously editted (saved frame out of MenuEdit) and encoded it with TMPGEnc. It looks horrible BTW but I have to look into the settings of the encode for that I assume.
Then I opened up the menu VOB containing the menu cell I want to replace. Found it (looked at the LBA in the IFO for that -- is there no easier way?) and remuxed it (I think).
Although I specified the filename in Save to dialog as the original VOB still another file is created (VTS_01_000.VOB) which is smaller than the original one so I can't replace it with that. This new VOB only contains my editted background.
Obviously the original VOB isn't touched and still holds the original background.
I read your sequence again and found the reference for Joining the VOB. For that I opened up the original VOB file (VTS_01_0.VOB), selected Edit / Join CellVOBfiles and selected VTS_01_000.VOB from the dialog. To my astonishment file VTS_01_01.VOB gets written (deleting the first part of my main movie!!!!!) with the same length as VTS_01_000.VOB and still no changes to VTS_01_0.VOB!!!

So what did I miss or do wrong?

[violao]

You need to be careful with your original files. I suggest you to do all splitting/demux/mux/joining etc in separate directory.

Check the sequence again. First you need to split menu vob file (like VTS_01_0.VOB) to cells. You can do that with Vobedit demux button. Then pick the cell you want to change and do your work ONLY on that cell. You may want to encrease quality settings in m2v encoding process, just make sure that total bitrate (including audio) doesn't go over 9800000 bits/s.

When you mux back choose whatever file name you want. After remux is done rename your result file to the filename of your original demuxed cell. Then just open in Vobedit the first of the cells that you had demuxed in step 1 and choose join cell/vob files. Only now you can replace your original VTS_01_0.VOB with the result. Don't worry if it is smaller. You have to do another "mock" strip of your new menu vob file anyway. To do that open corresponding IFO file in IfoEdit, press MenuExtras, check StripStreams, Correct original IFOs ans AutoCopy Menu Files, select ALL streams and save to new directory. Then replace old menu VOB and IFO files with new files, open IFO in IfoEdit and press GetVTSSectors.

If you are not familiar with these procedures you may want to look at excellent 2COOL's guides.

[Harm]

I noticed that I had to take care of where the files are situated..... :p

Thanks again for the very clear information.
I found a (beta) guide for remuxing by 2Cool (he is indeed :D ) which tells a similar story.
The last part about IFOedit I already know because that's what I had to do after I inactivated some buttons with MenuEdit in a previous project.

Now where I have gone wrong is the filenaming. This is because I used a saved frame out of MenuEdit. This is a BMP right away. So I gave it a fancy name and with remuxing the filenaming is crucial (as is the placing of the files... :rolleyes: ).

OK. But I still need a little guidance.

My sequence is now (question marks indicate that I am not sure):
1. Demux the entire menu VOB (VTS_01_00.VOB) on cellid with Vobedit
2. Identify the cellid VOB I want to change (in my case this is VTS_01_007.VOB)
3. ???? Demux the cellid VOB (VTS_01_007.VOB) on MPEG stream (I get VTS_01_007.m2v)
4. ???? Play the file and capture a frame to get the BMP. Which player is best? (I got Elecard player but when grabbing it gives an error; Mediaplayer also gives an error; I use PowerDVD now in stead)
5. Edit the BMP with for example Photoshop
6. Encode the BMP using TMPGEnc with I suppose the same filename???
7. ???? Then this M2V has to go into the same VOB again (VTS_01_007.VOB). This I do with Remux and Vobedit?
8. ???? Then the entire VOB (VTS_01_00.VOB) has to be recreated. This can also be done with Remux and Vobedit?
9. Replace the entire VOB with the newly created one and use IFOedit with Menu Extras etc. to Strip the lot to correct all kinds of things.
10. Replace the files by the resulting ones of step 9
11. ???? I always read something of having to do "Get VTS sectors" in IFOedit. Why is this?

Did you notice the sequence is far different from the one I started out with on this thread?

[violao]

3. Correct
4. Correct - use whatever gives the best result (I use DVD2AVI...)
6. Correct - filename is not important. You'll chose m2v file when you do remux in your next step.
7. Correct
8. Partially correct. You have to recreate entire menu vob file, only not with Remux but with Join Cell/Vob files. To do that you need a sequence of files - you already got them when you splitted your original menu vob with Vobedit and they are properly named. Open THE FIRST FILE IN SEQUEMCE with Vobedit and choose Join Cell/Vob files. Save to whatever file name Vobedit chooses and rename to filename of your original menu vob.
11. I would put this into category "correct all kinds of things"

Please note that this procedure will not modify your button highlight/selection shapes. As explained previously these are stored in subpicture streams and cannot be changed by editting m2v.

[Harm]

OK let's start with the good news!
I managed to replace the background and the menu is still working!
The sequence in this case (only replacing the background) is fairly simple......... if you know what it is :D

But..... I'm still struggling with getting a BMP of reasonable quality.

You tell me you use DVD2AVI to get a BMP. When I load the M2V (or the VOB for that matter) into DVD2AVI the option Save to BMP is not allowed..... I also tried saving to AVI but that resulted in a file of 0 bytes....
So how do you normally do that?
The BMP I grabbed with PowerDVD specifies as having resolution of 2 dpi.... in Photoshop it looks OK but you need fontsize far larger that 72 points to be able to type a new text. So if this grab is OK I am not sure....

Then the encoding with TMPGEnc Plus. Although I have a BMP with size 1351 Kb whatever option I select or deselect I get a M2V of 13 Kb!
Can you specifiy your options? Or is there some encoding manual around?

[DnGermany]

Did the original menu have any audio? After encoding with TmpgEnc the bmp becomes a 1 frame m2v file, which is why it's much smaller and of lesser quality. Add a blank audio file of desired length and the results will be much better. Don't forget to save as elementary files. Hope that helps you out.

[violao]

I have no idea why Save BMP doesn't work. With DVD2AVI i use the folowing procedure:
open m2v in DVD2AVI - save d2v, open d2v in Vfapi converter, save to "fake" avi, open fake avi in Virtualdub and save source frame to bitmap. Same procedure may be used for motion menu, only you save avi from Virtualdub instead of bitmap. I use DVD2AVI because I read many times that it has the best mpeg2 decoder built in.

As for encoding, try to use CBR and set a bitrate around 8 Mbps. This should be fine. There are a lot of Tmpgenc tutorials around. Try to check at dvdrhelp.com (http://www.dvdrhelp.com).

@DnGermany, I think Harm wants to keep audio and 13 kb is small even for 1 frame m2v. If the frame is 40 ms (PAL) then 13 KB file indicate that bitrate is 2.6 Mbps, which is quite low for DVD. I think resultant filesize should be around 40 KB.

[Harm]

I tried DnGermany's suggestion. Demuxed the AC3. Converted it into WAV and included it in the encode of TMPGEnc Plus. I still choose to create a M2V. The result of this is a larger M2V because it creates it for the length of the audio file although it isn't really included. When I use this file in the remux/join process I get a quit nice background menu. But the sound is lost! So there is some truth in the frame suggestion of DnGermany!

As for violao: you don't talk about the direct option in DVD2AVI of saving to BMP. Should this work in this case or is this option for other files? I'll try to follow the sequence you mention DVD2AVI/VFapi converter/VirtualDub and let you know the result.

About the encode: I'm also struggling (sorry for the ongoing questions.... :rolleyes: ) with the aspect ratio and video format. I can see it's 16:9 but still the encode results in a slightly compressed format only vertical. You suspect I can find the answer to that to in guides on DVDRhelp?

[Harm]

Alright I tried encoding with 8 Mbps right away. This resulted in a file of 33 Kb that looked much better.
After this I followed the path of DVD2AVI/VFApi converter/VirtualDub (it took me a while to figure out how to capture the frame -- this is only possible via the clipboard?). Anyway this file turned out to be much more edittable in Photoshop. In the end I got a resulting file of ..... 33 Kb!

I fiddled around with some aspect ratio and video settings to finally get exactly the same result as the original! But I'm still interested how I can deduce these settings from the original M2V!

But in the end...... I have a beautiful result!

Thanks again for your guidance! :) :) :)

Just out of curiosity.... suppose I wanted to change those green blocks in the subpictures to? I know I can get them with Subrip as BMP so I can edit them. But how do I get them back into the original VOB? You can only remux M2V or not?
And you also can demux them with VobEdit to sup files. Are those edittable? And how do you get SUP files back into the VOB?
You then have to start reauthoring?
Questions..... questions..... :confused:

[violao]

Originally posted by Harm
...But how do I get them back into the original VOB? You can only remux M2V or not?
And you also can demux them with VobEdit to sup files. Are those edittable? And how do you get SUP files back into the VOB?
You then have to start reauthoring?
Questions..... questions..... :confused:
I'd like to know answers too. Unfortunately vobedit can only mux m2v. You can mux sup with Ifoedit, but I'm not sure what happens with NAV packs - parts that contain button placement and commands - those you saw with MenuEdit. These are not part of sup stream.

As far as I know you have to use some sort of authoring application to rebuild button coordinates, color maps and commands. I use dvdauthor for that. You may want to check dvdauthor homepage (http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net).

In any case I'm glad I could help you. One last thing, before you go further, please check dvd-replica site (http://www.dvd-replica.com) for a bunch of free information about dvd standard.

[Dimad]

Originally posted by violao
I'd like to know answers too. Unfortunately vobedit can only mux m2v. You can mux sup with Ifoedit, but I'm not sure what happens with NAV packs - parts that contain button placement and commands - those you saw with MenuEdit. These are not part of sup stream.


That is what MenuEdit will do. Just export original menu as .mbl file, then open a new one and import buttons. MenuEdit will populate Nav packs with buttons info.

Although there might be a problem. There are some timings in vob file (when to start highlight, when to stop it, when to start ignoring user input). MenuEdit does not touch these. So it is possible that though you will have absolutely everything what is needed in the menu, it still will not work very well.

DvdReMake will modify timings in exported cells, but I need to check if it will create these timings if they were set to 0 in original.

[bazsi]

"Encode the BMP using TMPGEnc"
The big question is HOW?? The result is ugly, not a dvd quailty.

Can somebody tell me Exactly how can I convert a bmp to m2v and to vob. (the grabbed bmp is 32b and the edited is 24b, it's problem?)

I'm trying to edit the menu of Band of Brothers DVD.

Thanks

[Harm]

Originally posted by bazsi
"Encode the BMP using TMPGEnc"
The big question is HOW?? The result is ugly, not a dvd quailty.

Can somebody tell me Exactly how can I convert a bmp to m2v and to vob. (the grabbed bmp is 32b and the edited is 24b, it's problem?)

I'm trying to edit the menu of Band of Brothers DVD.

Thanks
I had this problem too..... I think you had to take care of selecting the right format in TMPGEnc but I don't remember exactly....
Hope this helps.....

[bazsi]

I've found a page that explain the settings of the TMPGEnc, but the result is the same.
Any other ways?

thanks for the replay Harm!

[M!ro]

@bazsi

try this settings with tmpegenc:
CQ quality 80
max bitrate 9000
and set framerate to 1 fps

You'll get m2v of about 100kb with very good quality!

[bazsi]

@ M!ro

Perfect. You're genious!

Thanks