Explain this: video shot outdoors won't capture

[FlimsyFeet]

Some details:

Capturing off a 10-year old 8mm camcorder (tapes are just as old).
CPU is Athlon 2700, 7200rpm HDD, capture card is ATI TV Wonder VE, using VirtualDub for capture and Conexant's BtPCI WDM drivers.

When capturing video shot indoors, the CPU hardly breaks a sweat (15% usage), although I get the occasional dropped frame (<1%) probably because the tapes are fairly poor quality. However, if I then try to capture video that was shot outdoors, the dropped frame count suddenly starts to shoot up rapidly, getting into the 100s in a very short time.

Any explanation for this, or even better, any solutions?

[rfmmars]

You have a larger data rate outdoors because of the increased dynamic range of light creating more detail. I have three ATI cards, and to be honest with you,I never capture with VD because of that reason.

Use the ATI capture software that came with the card, and capture MPEG2 740x480 29.97 fps, at 8000 bps. There will be never any dropped frames, NEVER!

The quality will be better than any codec that VD uses, and be on par with DV.avi capture. Your file size at best quality setting will be at least one third as large compared to best quality settings of other codeces.

Download Virtualdubmod AC-3 version 1.5.4. With this version you can import your MPEG2 clip, and can save the edited clip in any other codeces including MPEG2 if you download the Yane MPEG2 plugin.

It takes a lot of work to get .AVI captures without drop frames, because of the demand on the hard drive system,Windows configuation, and motherboard bios setting.

I run three video work stations, and I have found this is the best setup around.

richard

[FlimsyFeet]

Thanks for the reply, I never knew about this "increased dynamic range of light" thing. So it's a problem with VirtualDub then? I thought that was the best program for video capture.

Last time I tried ATi's Multimedia Centre it wouldn't let me capture above 288 lines vertically (I want 576 - PAL). But that was a while ago and MMC has been updated since then.

I forgot to mention I was using the lossless hufyuv codec for capture in VDub, I would expect this to be less strain on the system that MPEG-2 encoding in real-time, but if in your experience you get better results doing it that way then I'll try it.

[rfmmars]

It's not that VD is bad......If you want to use huff, then download AVI-io Demo. This the best as not droping frames in AVI format that I have tried. Do try ATI's latest drivers.

richard

[FlimsyFeet]

I have no real preference for huff, it's just what I thought most people use, but I'm sure MPEG-2 at 8000 bps would be fine.

Anyway, I tried ATI's software, and it still won't let me capture at xxx * 576 with my card. This (http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4007.html) was an issue with MMC 7.1, the latest version, the one I downloaded, is 8.9 and support for higher resolutions still hasn't been added! Although I liked the TV player skin, there are things that annoyed me about it, like the configuration forces you to scan for TV channels, I only want to use the composite input, don't even have an aerial connected (no channels found - NS Sherlock!)

And when I tried to resolve the resolution problem by installing the alternative btwincap drivers, the ATI TV player crashed when I opened it, and the PC check thing told me I didn't have DirectX 9 or above installed (I have 9.0b) but the help file recommends I install 8.1 or above.
:confused:

So after 3 hours of messing around I gave up with it.

Just a thought, but would the MJPEG codec work better then huff with VDub? I'll try that first, then maybe get the AVI-IO trial version and test that out.

[rfmmars]

Well Huff is lossless. thats the big thing about it, and if your involved with just one, not to large of a project. that will work. The problem is Hard Drive space.

Three big reasons I perfer MPEG2 is small file size, excellent quality, and fast to edit.

In VD and almost in any other NLE, .AVI files are slow to edit. Have you ever played a .AVI file with sound in VD, and notice the choppy sound is, and less than 29.97 playback?

This doesn't happen with MPEG2 files. Also DV.avi will play good in other NLEs, but not supported in VD as far as I know. Why don't you try Xvid as a codecs, it has good quality, and capture at 6000 bps and see if you have any dropped frames.

richard
photorecall.net

[Arachnotron]

CPU is Athlon 2700, 7200rpm HDD, capture card is ATI TV Wonder VE, using VirtualDub for capture and Conexant's BtPCI WDM drivers.

From your post and some remarks on the net I get the idea this card uses a BT878. If so, you could install the BTWincap drivers and cap full size anyway.

It will probably break the ATI software, but that is crap anyway and there are plenty replacements available. :)

....update:

This card is even on the compatibility list!
http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/supportedcards.html

So install this driver and cap away! :D

[FlimsyFeet]

Yes, I was already using those drivers. At least, I think so. They seemed to install correctly, but when I go to Device Manager -> Conexant's BtPCI WDM Video Capture -> properties, the details look different. How can you check?

By the way Richard: AVI-IO trial did pretty well with a portion of video that was problematic in VDub. Dropped frames were about 0.8%. Pity it's not free, it stopped after a while saying evaluation limit reached. Maybe I should buy it to save messing around with VDub joining up lots of short segments of video!

[Arachnotron]

Yes, I was already using those drivers. At least, I think so. They seemed to install correctly, but when I go to Device Manager -> Conexant's BtPCI WDM Video Capture -> properties, the details look different. How can you check?

Look at the driver properties. If the provider is IllusionHope, You are ok. You should have two devices: Connexant's BTPCI WDM adio capture and a video capture.

To cap above 288:
- for vdub, set video mode to Preview
- try virtualVCR, AMCAP or another Directshow based capping app.

With BTWincap, there is no reason you should be unable to cap above 288 vertically. But the ATI software will probably not work any more.

By the way, since you are in PAL country, don't forget to install the DirectX 9 patch for non-NTSC tuners from Microsoft.
(do a search on NTSC and tuner on the MS site)

[rfmmars]

Not all the best things are free. I used AVI-io for years, and never regreted the $25.00 dollora spent.

richard

[FlimsyFeet]

Arachnotron:
Yes it does say IllusionHope, that's what confused me because I didn't see that name anywhere on the btwincap site.

I never had a problem with the resolution using these drivers, or the ones loaded by default by Win XP. The original problem was the frame drops, which I tried to fix by using the ATI software, but then that introduced the 288 res limit problem!

I don't use the tuner on the card, but thanks for pointing out that patch to me.


rfmmars:
I don't do video capping very often, maybe once every 3/4 months, so I'm reluctant to pay for something that wouldn't get much use. That said, I'll try the two freeware programs Arachnotron suggested first, and if they suffer from excessive frame dropping, I will end up buying it.

[Karl Beem]

How can we get this Yane plugin?

[FlimsyFeet]

Sorry, don't know about the Yane plug-in.

I thought I should post a note on this thread, for future reference, to say that the problem I was experiencing was not caused by sunlight, nor was it a problem with VirtualDub; I now think there is someting wrong with the video camera playback. The dropped frame problem is repeated in other applications (including AVI-IO), but if I fast forward to the end of the tape and rewind back to the same point and re-play, it continues with no frame drops.